Damage

[123savethewhales]

I.  Pierce VS Concussion.

When ramming 2 static weapons together, Concussion deals 2x the damage of pierce point by point.
Piercing is enhanced significantly more by moving components (piston, spin, burst, flail) compare to concussion for both side.  The faster the movement, the better piercing is over concussion.

Therefore, piercing is always preferred on moving components
Static piercing can be used for countering moving components
Static concussion are good for Rams and non Flail SnS, as their damage are greatly increased by the actual bot's movement.

I concluded that piercing and concussion has no direct linear relationship.  The damage formula should be something like this

M = Combined Momentum
S = Combined Speed of Axle
X = Momentum multiplier
Y = Speed multiplier
P = Piercing
C = Concussion

Damage = X*M*P + Y*S*P + 2X*M*C + f(Y)*S*C

Y is significantly stronger than f(Y), though I haven't figure out exactly.


II.  Initial Fracture.

Initial fracture means any component, after losing all it's HP, still takes one more hit to kill.  So when razor tip lose it's 1000 HP in 1 or 2 hits, it gets another hit before getting destroyed.  This means razor tips dissipates from 33% to a few hundred % damage received in spillover.  Whereas the sledge hammer hit receives all the damage.  It's no wonder why many small weapons are so much better.

This also makes sledge hammer better at light weight, but becomes less effective at heavy weight.  Less damage per hit means less damage getting spill over.


III.  Anything else discovered during this damage test?

Yes, metal value does not add damage on it's own, it is a damage multiplier.  The default for weapon is metal(0.8).  So if you want a non weapon component to deal damage, simply set its metal value to 0.8, and add whatever piercing/concussion you want.

[Naryar]

MOAR BEATERS

Oh, and you should obviously be more dramatic when announcing that.

[NFX]

Certainly a good bit of research you did there, 123. However, I'm not certain that it'll drastically alter the way bots are built too much.

And maybe beaters are better than people imagine. Hence why my Valid Query series is so damaging. =P

[123savethewhales]

But remember, this test is specifically for static weapons.  See flail double damage on piercing, and I haven't try to see what other axles does the same.  Who knows maybe burst motor boost piercing damage also.  Someone need to try that.

Don't take my word for it.  Try the experiment I listed yourself.  The result is so counter conventional wisdom that I am having a hard time believing it, but that's where all the evidences are pointing at.

Certainly   a good bit of research you did there, 123. However, I'm not certain   that it'll drastically alter the way bots are built too much.

And maybe beaters are better than people imagine. Hence why my Valid Query series is so damaging. =P

You will not be surprise to find out that it makes no difference whatsoever.

DS Light + Light beater on non flail, Razor on Flails, just the way it is now.

DS Light is still somewhat better than light beater due to it's superior damage (because for some reason DS light has huge amount of concussion).

[JoeBlo]

Really this is the final nail in the coffin for a lot of current weapons...

At least when it comes to playing DSL 2.1 competitively.

Its amazing something so complex could come from what seemed to be a "half assed" game.. maybe they blew the whole budget paying the salary for someone to construct the damage calculation :P

[G.K.]

I'm a tad confused. What are the best weapons then?

[123savethewhales]

Humm here's another non controversial finding.

Burst motors, like axles, boost the damage of piercing.  So it's no wonder why razors are so good on popups too.

So yeah, razors on flails and popups, DS light + Beater on other stuff, just the way it is now.

[JoeBlo]

hmm ...

so Skirt Hinge Rammers > Static Rammers?

I guess that would too become another norm

[123savethewhales]

I tried.  It's odd, but skirt hinge does not boost damage of piercing.

My guess is that piercing only gets boosted when the axle is moving, that just isn't the case for skirt hinge during initial contact.

You really should try this and see if you get the same results I do.  I still find my own test results hard to believe.

[JoeBlo]

will do in the morning..

I have another possible head scratch-er about your moving axle theory which could change how we AI some robots 

[Larrain]

About the axles thing, does this also mean piercing damage is boosted by spin motors as well?

[Naryar]

Burst motors, like axles, boost the damage of piercing.  So it's no wonder why razors are so good on popups too.

Maybe it has something to do with spin motor bursting in stock ? Maybe being on a burst motor or axle improves the statistics of both motors and weapons ?

Then flails are cheating in a DSL perspective, since it seems to augment the damage and hitpoints.

[123savethewhales]

Given the piercing is so significantly lower than concussion in DSL, things that does boost piercing, such as flail, might be the only way they are balanced at all.  You are paying 4kg to boost piercing to the concussion level.  Even then Crosswind consistently de-weapon RPP.  Only reason RPP is used over Crosswind is for its sweeping power.

Besides under your argument burst motor with razor will also be cheating.

[123savethewhales]

Changed the title and added some new findings.

[Reier]

durrrr....imma use sleges in stock k since this is over my head

[Larrain]

The earlier title was more lulzy. :P

[Vertigo]

Does this apply to stock aswell? Meaning hammers are good in stock!?

[Naryar]

Does this apply to stock aswell? Meaning hammers are good in stock!?

Yes it does apply, and no hammers still suck in stock.

[Badger]

Does this apply to stock aswell? Meaning hammers are good in stock!?

Yes it does apply, and no hammers still suck in stock.

*Quietly changes all my stock bots*

I learnt that Razor Tips are the most damaging weapon in DSL. Am I wrong? 

[Naryar]

They generally are, but not against high concussion weapons.