Damage

[Sage]

what about piercing/concussion vs chassis tests, Click?

[JoeBlo]

well that makes it interesting.. that said the boosting of damage could work in the favor of Backlash but could be debatable with realism..

123 hadn't got as far as what you have here at the time we were trying to work out a good weapon balance.

[Clickbeetle]

what about piercing/concussion vs chassis tests, Click?

That was how I originally came up with the current DP formula.  It was a hammer bot I was testing on a bare chassis.  The results are still the same.


That said, I haven't done static weapons vs. chassis/non-weapons, which would be worth doing...

well that makes it interesting.. that said the boosting of damage could work in the favor of Backlash but could be debatable with realism..

123 hadn't got as far as what you have here at the time we were trying to work out a good weapon balance.

As long as you stick with a constant piercing/concussion ratio the components should be balanced.  I'm just saying that using pure piercing won't necessarily give spinners any advantage over rammers.

[Urjak]

(Might not be a bad idea to just use pure concussion, as this would nerf the damage bonus to flail weapons).

The FSS is nearing its final days.... 

[JoeBlo]

dont feel bad... pop ups are nearing theirs with the direction of DSL 3

[123savethewhales]

Well, given rammers isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer as is, even with 1.839 to 1, rammers would just be outright bad when concussion is completely removed.  Or put in another way, you better off just move slow and stack as much weapons as possible (refraction).

Weapons doesn't have to be the same to be balanced.  The whole 1.839 to 1 was actually quite balance because momentum damage just can't be generated nearly as easily as spinners or popups.  The one person I can think of that loves concussion weapon is The Ounce, and his bots are competitive enough.  That's when I realize I don't actually have to explicitly change much for Space Arena.

dont feel bad... pop ups are nearing theirs with the direction of DSL 3

No way.  With no flails to stop wedges, popups will be better than ever.

Something like samurai sword is good enough for popups in an environment where every bot suffers from normals.  Popup actually gets hurt the least from this as they can best control the direction of which the weapons make contact.

Concussion HS vs. Piercing rammer
1.8 concussion = 1 piercing

I don't know how you keep getting this 1.8 to 1 relationship.  When I systematically increase the speed/torque of the motor, piercing damage increase disproportionally to concussion.  That's why you get that 2.2 when both of them are on HS.

You can easily generate 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 with a stronger motor.

[Vertigo]

dont feel bad... pop ups are nearing theirs with the direction of DSL 3

Only if stock and DSL 2.1 are forgotten in the process

[Sage]

Piercing HS vs. Concussion HS:
1 piercing = 2.2 concussion

Does this mean that... irons are better weapons than maces on HS?

[cephalopod]

I like my Concussion weapon VS very much, so personally I wouldn't want to see piercing weapons continuing to be generally the best. I like the idea Click suggested of just using pure concussion, which makes everything a lot more balanced and means the moment my LW VS hit a single razor they go flying everywhere
Just mah 2 cents.

[Clickbeetle]

Piercing HS vs. Concussion HS:
1 piercing = 2.2 concussion

Does this mean that... irons are better weapons than maces on HS?

If you just go by stats, then yes... but there are other factors to consider like size.  Maces protect the extenders better which might explain why Inf's tests resulted in 36 mace HS beating 36 iron HS.

[G.K.]

In that instance, to test stock irons vs maces, how about making a custom version of the 20cm extender with the APs quite a way away from the main body of the component and making normal 36 HS's with them?