New Glitch - Hax Mode

[ty4er]

Gets rid of creativity pretty much.

And it means anyone can build anything without trying really...

[G.K.]

I agree with Joe here - we cannot prove it is legit, so we cannot outlaw it without outlawing all stacking. For all we in our ignorant minds know, we could be using it every time we stack something. I am probably wrong, but there is no proof for us so you cannot outlaw it on its own.

My support would go for what NFX said, releasing it and being open about it, and then regulating it as with the realistic rule in DSL. Both things are subjective and will be applied differently from tournament host to tournament host. This is one of the only fair options and also the best, IMHO.

[123savethewhales]

Why don't we just

"Ban things that LOOKS like hax mode to the average builder"

instead of

"Ban hax mode".

After all, in practice it is exactly the same with BFE and AAF, you can only ban the things that APPEARS like BFE to the average builders.

So will that "discourage new ways of stacking"?  Maybe.  Or it might have little to no impact at all because even before this you have to REALLY stack to look like hax.

[cephalopod]

I agree with these guys, I think. It does make more sense. And it'll mean I'm finally able to stack even 2 supervolts, maybe even bringing my interest into Stock a little bit, as some people are put off due to not being able to stack, including me.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

WHat do we kno is possible at the moment?
We could just list what we currently know as possible for future reference.
E.g 3 Black batteries, a few baseplate anchors, etc...

[Pwnator]

Standards for stacking has pretty much increased thanks to NC's tool

HOORAY NC'S TOOL

[NFX]

But then some members can stack easier than others. For instance, there are members who can stack a CB into 2 blacks, whereas I can't even stack it into one. I have gotten 3 Niftys together once, 2 SnapperII's together, 2 Lo Power Servos together, and 4 Pinks partly into 2 BA's. But if one member's stacking ability isn't equal to another member's stacking ability, then that puts them at a disadvantage.

I think, in terms of regulation, tournament hosts will have to lay down rules about which stacks are deemed legal and which stacks aren't. If we do put together the list, and someone discovers a new stack without using Superstacking, then we'd have to have multiple-party confirmation before we can deem it legal. Otherwise we'd get a bunch of complaints about it being hax mode.

[123savethewhales]

Listing every single stack-able thing with their quantity is petty close to impossible.  The list just grows exponentially as you increase more parts/conditions.

Any potential multiple-party confirmation is going to be simpler than writing/checking that rulebook.  And anyone who complain about hax mode can just as easily complain about BFE.  But against we don't see BFE complains everywhere.

One reason for not having runaway effect is the showcases.  People can see a steady stream of bots.  Anyone who look like their stacking skill improved significantly overnight is going to raise suspicion.  Getting away with big cheating is just not that easy when people can see your progress.  So if I start a stock showcase now and show some 1337 stacking skills, you will guess I am using BFE even if the same bot might look legit from Pwnator or Ounce.

[Jack Daniels]

Why is everyone so concerned about Stock Dying?  DSL tournaments still outnumber stock most of the time.  Also, no offense, but stock tournaments often get filled up with newer builders and it just doesn't generate the same interest with Veterans like the old days.

I would be willing to bet that with each discovery over the years people have feared that it would kill off Stock interest.  Dating all the way back the beginning with the first stack, bot file editing, even popups had everyone's panties in a wad.

I say, release it to the public and future Stock tournaments can be either:

-Stock abiding by the realistic rule (thus negating the need for any hax)

or

-Stock All In-game Glitches Allowed  (probably ushering in a new era of leet bots that separate the men from the boys *and women from the girls just to include Scourge*)


Newbies would enter the realistic rule tourneys... and power builders would enter the SAIGA tourneys.  Everyone is happy.


Edit: And yes... i know i praised you for keeping it secret at first... but 12 hours gave me time to think about it more thoroughly. I changed my mind.  :P

[russian roulette]

Gets rid of creativity pretty much.

And it means anyone can build anything without trying really...

I don't necessarily agree with this. If you were given the choice to build something with no collision, you'd have more possibilities to create non generic robots and still be effective in combat. With there being more possibilities, there are more chances of you most likely not liking the way your bot turned out.

[Urjak]

Other than the fact that Sage and Scrap have the right to tell anyone they want, there is no good reason for this glitch to remain secret. We already have BFE. And how exactly do we regulate BFE? By using common sense. We look at a bot and can generally tell if someone uses BFE.

All the n00bs here could easily learn BFE by lurking around these forums and experimenting, and yet stock hasn't died yet. That shows generally that people are honest, and that they want to have worked hard on a robot and pit it against other fair robots. If Hax Mode is released, the only expected effect, depending on how easy the glitch is, is that people will be able to build bots more quickly via stacking those 2 supervolts or Nifty. Come to think of it, this might actually slightly increase the number of bots built because it removes the tiresome amount of time to stack certain components.

In conclusion, this glitch really should be released to the public, if for no other reason then to keep an openness between members to not keep cool or unique glitches to ourselves. That's something I don't think a forum for an otherwise dead game should do. Just my two cents. 

[System32]

I agree with urjak.
 
Nothing kills faster than ignorance and secrecy.

[JoeBlo]

Dont get me wrong here.. I am not saying it will kill of stock just at this moment it has easy potential to turn away loads of players.

As I said (and created a poll for it) since you have to be a brain surgeon to construct a stacking rule-set around it you need to simply outlaw base-plate stacking or let people go nuts (but I foresee the latter as a worse option)

Either case the Glitch can be released, confirmed and Sage and Scrappy get themselves an official title for it (at the moment its nowhere proven to be true.. its just that we trust them both)

Another option is splitting stock.. (yet another one of my one going   projects comes to light again) We Fix up Stock's bugs (ACAMS had a few   AP fixes also the 140 extender, etc) and Brand that as the more   restrictive Stacking game (Outlaw Baseplate Stacking) and leave Stock   how its always been "Whatever you can manage inside the game is legal"

There is something good to come from this already though.. my Buried project "Paper RA2" can surface again..   (Think Paper Mario but RA2) it was set to be released but with the AAM   possibilities (swapping component GMF's for the paper thin versions) I   buried it.. guess I wont have to worry anymore..

[madman3]

So long as it's kept to custom showcases I don't really care.

[russian roulette]

So long as it's kept to custom showcases I don't really care.

Why? It doesn't have custom components, and it is specific for stock. That is just like saying Effe glitched robots or robots that stack belong in the custom components section. If this glitch is kept at a limit, Stock tournament would become ALOT more popular.

[JoeBlo]

Read the 4th paragraph of my above post then his reply

At least I think thats what he was talking about?

[Gazea2]

I've been lurking through this thread for a while now and lots of people have repeated themselves. In all honesty, I think Joe's idea is the best. You either:

a) Ban stacking all together and make stock a bad imitation of DSL.
b) Make 2 versions of stock: one with stacking and one without.
c) Put up with it and use your common sense to decide whether they have used this glitch or done it properly.

I don't really mind which option is chosen but I definitely think that it should be released. If not, then suspicions will rise and, eventually, someone else will find out how.

[russian roulette]

@Joe
Yes I get that, but it is still stock but just a patched version. Stock showcase should be split in 2 sections if this would happen to go into effect though. Perhaps "RA2:Developer Release" and "RA2 Stock: GTM Release"

[Sage]

That would be me 

Actually, that would be Sage. :P

You should see the number of bots I've made using the Trov glitch.

Did you ever watch my tutorial?


And also, its much easier to stack 2 blacks then to initiate this glitch. That HS was one of the more difficult bots I've had to build. This glitch is a higher difficulty level than snapper loading, so all you guys who think it will make bot building easier for noobs are incorrect. You're all coming up with reasons why it should be released when in reality you're just curious.

If we don't release it, we can still tell between BFE and in-game glitching. That's the point. So why release it if it's just going to be shunned like BFE anyway.

Most builders know exactly what has been stacked normally in the past before, and can call BS on anything that doesn't have video proof. So why must we outlaw stacking now that a few people know this glitch? We don't have to, CAUSE IT'S NOT RELEASED.

Third point, for those who think its a hoax: I'll talk to Scrap, maybe we can get some video proof going.

[JoeBlo]

@Joe
Yes I get that, but it is still stock but just a patched version. Stock showcase should be split in 2 sections if this would happen to go into effect though. Perhaps "RA2:Developer Release" and "RA2 Stock: GTM Release"

I wouldnt want the "NarAI effect" when the 2 got jumbled up all the time..

I started building it as Robot Arena 2 - Ultimate Edition (or simply branded "Ultimate" for short) and it had stock parts, AI parts, etc included and marked so people knew what could be used in rule sets along with other bits and pieces and an updated UI.. (similar to the old just a bit more modernized) Also as previous mentioned I wanted to add ACAMS AP mods..