General Tournament Discussion

[Phoenyx]

One more thing... would I be allowed to include non-entrant robots as well? I've built eight of them (they aren't exactly that good, they're mainly there to weed out the SFTWs) to fill in the blanks.

Would they take the number of competing bots over 16 (Plus wildcard)?

EDIT: I forgot to ask, do external entries count towards the 16-entry maximum for the first tournament?

All entries do.

Ugh... that's really going to be an issue... I had a really good idea for the tournament too, but it would require more than 16 bots.

I doubt that exceptions can be made either. Well, there goes THAT idea...

[ianh05]

AI'ing all the robots, recording matches, editing videos, uploading videos and linking videos is a lot of effort and most people don't realise that until they try which is probably the reason the limit exists. I also can't think of any sort of tournament that would require more then 16 entries.

[Phoenyx]

AI'ing all the robots, recording matches, editing videos, uploading videos and linking videos is a lot of effort and most people don't realise that until they try which is probably the reason the limit exists. I also can't think of any sort of tournament that would require more then 16 entries.

That's entirely in the assumption that someone has never done anything like this before. I may not have made a tournament in Robot Arena 2 before, but I doubt it compares with overhauling a game (I'm working on the Fronteer Miners mod for LEGO Rock Raiders) or learning how to use the DirectX 11 SDK for C++ with just a reference website.

Also, I had the idea to make something similar to Robot Wars with MW DSL IRL robots. Of course, a heat-based tournament with 16 robots would only have four heats and a grand-final heat. That's not exactly championship-size.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

I also can't think of any sort of tournament that would require more then 16 entries.

Anything that involves team-built bots.

[ianh05]

I also can't think of any sort of tournament that would require more then 16 entries.

Anything that involves team-built bots.

1 team = 1 entry in a team tournament?
4 teams of 4 or you could have 8 teams of 2 etc.
It's small but that's the point of entry level tournaments.

AI'ing all the robots, recording matches, editing videos, uploading videos and linking videos is a lot of effort and most people don't realise that until they try which is probably the reason the limit exists. I also can't think of any sort of tournament that would require more then 16 entries.

That's entirely in the assumption that someone has never done anything like this before. I may not have made a tournament in Robot Arena 2 before, but I doubt it compares with overhauling a game (I'm working on the Fronteer Miners mod for LEGO Rock Raiders) or learning how to use the DirectX 11 SDK for C++ with just a reference website.

Also, I had the idea to make something similar to Robot Wars with MW DSL IRL robots. Of course, a heat-based tournament with 16 robots would only have four heats and a grand-final heat. That's not exactly championship-size.

We have no way of knowing if someone can keep up with the required amount of work, that's all. If you can host a small tournament with 16 entries successfully then you can move up to larger tournaments.

[Phoenyx]

We have no way of knowing if someone can keep up with the required amount of work, that's all. If you can host a small tournament with 16 entries successfully then you can move up to larger tournaments.

In that case, I'll take the chance to prove myself.

[ianh05]

AI'ing all the robots, recording matches, editing videos, uploading videos and linking videos is a lot of effort and most people don't realise that until they try which is probably the reason the limit exists. I also can't think of any sort of tournament that would require more then 16 entries.

I forgot about the splash and bracket work -.- that takes some time too depending on how nice you want it to look.

[RpJk]

Might make Sudden Hybrids tournament or a basic Stock BW tournament before end of year depending.

[Badnik96]

That sounds really cool, i'd build for it.

[Mr. AS]

would it be stock

cus id totally love to see a monstrous true popup/hs/wammer/hammer hybrid

[RpJk]

Tournament idea:

Robotic Empire:


Heres how it goes:

16 bots knockout

Winner "captures" the opponents bot and can use that or thier own bot for next match:

When it gets to the final however they must use thier own bot and the three other bots they have "captured"  in a 4 on 4 match.

Thats the rough picture so what do you think of it?

[G.K.]

4 on 4 isn't possible, which is a slight flaw.

[RpJk]

As in 4 one on one matches.

[G.K.]

Ah, I see.

[ianh05]

So the new host must show entry rule has caused myself to suggest a couple of new rules:


-The host can change/update their entry but must allow everyone else the option to change/update theirs and show the update/change in their topic before anyone else sends in their updates.
-The host is to post pictures of all entries as they receive them. (possibly in a constantly updated splash?)


I believe this clears up the update/change rule while allowing the host to be on more even grounds to everyone else.

[yoda9726]

Gotta disagree with these.  Especially the showing bots as they're received for two main reasons...


1. More work for hosts, and there's already enough workload for them,
2. Entries will slow down as people wait for others first to gain an advantage by devising their strategy to beat what they've seen.


I've already stated why I don't see a need for the other rule in your other topic.  tl;dr version, not that big of a deal.

[Classicus]

Wouldn't the second point give an advantage to later builders and disadvantage people who build first as later entrants can see some of their opponents? Might have a situation where people avoid entering until the last minute and that could cause problems. I'd suggest everyone who enters a tournament (including the host) sends their bot and splash to an impartial/neutral person who isn't entering the tournament. Then when all sign up slots are filled they all get posted at once. Having a neutral tournament director might solve a lot of problems.

[ianh05]

Gotta disagree with these.  Especially the showing bots as they're received for two main reasons...

1. More work for hosts, and there's already enough workload for them,
2. Entries will slow down as people wait for others first to gain an advantage by devising their strategy to beat what they've seen.

I've already stated why I don't see a need for the other rule in your other topic.  tl;dr version, not that big of a deal.

1. It's really up to the host if they allow updates/changes.
2. Some people actually show their entries anyway (NFX has shown his and so has Virus Bomb). People who aren't the host have no control over the brackets so this would be pointless.

[yoda9726]

True, some people do.  I've done it myself, as well.   But that's up to the entrant and doesn't put any more work on the host. 


Control or lack of control over the bracket doesn't change the fact that there is an advantage to be had in knowing what the other entrants are.   Even if it's just a perceived advantage and nothing else, I can still see people not entering until they see more of the other entrants....which, again, slows entries down. 


And besides, when done right, the host himself has no control over the brackets either since they are (or at least should be) randomized.

[ianh05]

Control or lack of control over the bracket doesn't change the fact that there is an advantage to be had in knowing what the other entrants are.   Even if it's just a perceived advantage and nothing else, I can still see people not entering until they see more of the other entrants....which, again, slows entries down. 

And besides, when done right, the host himself has no control over the brackets either since they are (or at least should be) randomized.

It's the same disadvantage the host has by posting his entry, if one of the later entries wants to make a bot designed to beat another person so be it. (someone said something along those lines towards the hosts disadvantage in the robo zone 2 topic).

Keep in mind these rules were put in place to prevent hosts cheating by waiting to receive entries then building a bot that can beat most of them, the brackets are another thing the host has control over.

So:

1. Everyone see's all the entries when they are entered.
2. Host has control over brackets.
3. There's no way someone can design a bot to defeat all other entries given that they have no idea who they will face.