Hi5's Stocktacular Bots

[09090901]

HS in general counter VS and to an extent drums, not much you can do about it.

Buffing up your armor would be a good move. You could also try a drum setup like this if you learn how to axle load

It protects the weapons far better than your current setup.

[Hi5er]

The idea is not to outweapon a 36HS, it's to keep your weapons alive and hit the tribars/motors to deweapon them.

In which case would you have the drum spinning downwards in order to come down on top of the motors etc?

I currently have it spinning upwards to try and force the opponent up in the air etc...

HS in general counter VS and to an extent drums, not much you can do about it.

Buffing up your armor would be a good move. You could also try a drum setup like this if you learn how to axle load

It protects the weapons far better than your current setup.

I looked at that and thought: ah! easy! I can see how to setup the snappers to get a drum like that and then I saw the baseplates... Guess I'm off to the tutorial section...!

[Squirrel_Monkey]

The idea is not to outweapon a 36HS, it's to keep your weapons alive and hit the tribars/motors to deweapon them.

In which case would you have the drum spinning downwards in order to come down on top of the motors etc?

I currently have it spinning upwards to try and force the opponent up in the air etc...

Yeah, up is good so you hit the underside where there aren't usually any weapons

[Hi5er]

The idea is not to outweapon a 36HS, it's to keep your weapons alive and hit the tribars/motors to deweapon them.

In which case would you have the drum spinning downwards in order to come down on top of the motors etc?

I currently have it spinning upwards to try and force the opponent up in the air etc...

Yeah, up is good so you hit the underside where there aren't usually any weapons

I'll keep that the same for now then and I guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board design wise.

2 straight days without a win though, it's becoming rather tedious.

[Hi5er]

I decided to go back to the drawing board with Conundrum. The damage potential was a bit too small by today's standards and I wanted to see if I could fix the stability issues I was having with Drumbledore so the drum could be mounted on a servo or snapper.

Gaining inspiration from the renowned Neglected Waterbug, I was able to come up with this...

Conundrum v2.0




He has the added benefit over his first iteration, by actually managing to get a KO on some of the Starcraft v4.0 bots haha! It's nice to get some wins I have to say... At least now I know i'm not completely useless!

[Mystic2000]

well, it seems you've managed to make a design that can at least kill a couple things, i do have some things to say:

-that pointy tip at the back which i assume is for stability, can be removed or at least made lighter
-what i assume to be blades coming from under the ramplates and protecting the z-teks can most likely be removed too
-that strange mace mount on your wedges may be detrimental to it's wedginess
-the razors protecting the sides are too fragile to be effective, change them for irons
-try to get rubber wheels for better ground clearance

this is my opinion at least, better experienced members may say otherwise (in which case i advise you to follow their direction rather than mine)

[kill343gs]

I definitely thought of NWB as soon as I saw the pictures.

[Jet-speed]

Looking pretty solid tbh. I'd make it a habit to drop the use of the T/Angle connectors. As Mystic mentioned, the rear spike + connector could easily just be replaced by an extender, but ideally stability would come from positioning the drum further forward. As far as I can see, those T connectors you have connecting the maces (and arguably the maces themselves) are completely pointless and could be accomplished by rotating the wedge extender and feeding it off that.

I'd also question the application of maces in general in this scenario, they're a good weapon with no normals sure, but I feel that ditching them in favour of even just one more razor tip (in line with the others) in their place would probably be more effective.

You could also try shortening the plow extender by one notch and then placing the plow back on upside down (so the scoop is facing upwards). It should still form the trap that you're going for and maybe having it lower to the ground would help with tipping, but that's just a thought.

[Hi5er]

well, it seems you've managed to make a design that can at least kill a couple things, i do have some things to say:

-that pointy tip at the back which i assume is for stability, can be removed or at least made lighter
-what i assume to be blades coming from under the ramplates and protecting the z-teks can most likely be removed too
-that strange mace mount on your wedges may be detrimental to it's wedginess
-the razors protecting the sides are too fragile to be effective, change them for irons
-try to get rubber wheels for better ground clearance

this is my opinion at least, better experienced members may say otherwise (in which case i advise you to follow their direction rather than mine)

It seems I have! More historic than the results of the EU referendum...

In my testing the "Tail" for stability is better kept included, but an extender is too weak and just snaps off. An iron spike is too long, so the pointed spike seems to be working best. It keeps the wedge down.

I'm inclined to agree with you regarding the maces and blades etc. I'm tempted to rebuild this with more drive as I think that is the one area this bot definitely falls short, although it gets under robots, it doesn't always have enough force to get them up it's wedge.

 Finally, the razors on the side and shinnies are due to weight restrictions, not sure where this could be salvaged from if I intend to make it 4 wheel drive?

I definitely thought of NWB as soon as I saw the pictures.

The man figured out the way to stabalise a drum on a servo - The lowly tribar was the answer, however my chassis shape is unique, as is the drive and weaponry (compared to NWB at least).

Looking pretty solid tbh. I'd make it a habit to drop the use of the T/Angle connectors. As Mystic mentioned, the rear spike + connector could easily just be replaced by an extender, but ideally stability would come from positioning the drum further forward. As far as I can see, those T connectors you have connecting the maces (and arguably the maces themselves) are completely pointless and could be accomplished by rotating the wedge extender and feeding it off that.

I'd also question the application of maces in general in this scenario, they're a good weapon with no normals sure, but I feel that ditching them in favour of even just one more razor tip (in line with the others) in their place would probably be more effective.

You could also try shortening the plow extender by one notch and then placing the plow back on upside down (so the scoop is facing upwards). It should still form the trap that you're going for and maybe having it lower to the ground would help with tipping, but that's just a thought.

I can see what you're saying there (with the maces on the T Connectors), and this shouldn't take much editing at all to pull that off, which would save 10kg straight off the bat.

I take it you mean the maces on the inside of the drum in your next point? I attached them here as thanks to the rule of 7 I couldn't attach another extender on the current setup so maces seemed like the best option here.

The plough isn't what I was hoping for to be honest, so I'm still playing with it's position for sure.

Thanks for the comments all.

[Pwnator]

Regarding the stability, the simplest way to avoid resorting to unnecessary extender work and useless weapons is to expand the chassis base (like the rear, for example). Taper off the top layer if you're not attaching anything to that part of the baseplate. In general, HWs care the least about empty space and would love to have tons of HP and external armor. Also, good gutrippers tend to be low, wide, and fast.

Finally, NWB's design is actually quite outdated, despite its capabilities. The servo-tribar setup is very heavy and would not adapt well to a drum setup since drums use more weapons than jugglers, which forces you to use 2WD. Try a static setup for lightness - if that doesn't work, try using a Snapper II (you can still mount your plow here too). Your priority is still stability, though. Keep revising the setup until the weapon system doesn't shake the bot.

You're getting there!

[Hi5er]

Regarding the stability, the simplest way to avoid resorting to unnecessary extender work and useless weapons is to expand the chassis base (like the rear, for example). Taper off the top layer if you're not attaching anything to that part of the baseplate. In general, HWs care the least about empty space and would love to have tons of HP and external armor. Also, good gutrippers tend to be low, wide, and fast.

Finally, NWB's design is actually quite outdated, despite its capabilities. The servo-tribar setup is very heavy and would not adapt well to a drum setup since drums use more weapons than jugglers, which forces you to use 2WD. Try a static setup for lightness - if that doesn't work, try using a Snapper II (you can still mount your plow here too). Your priority is still stability, though. Keep revising the setup until the weapon system doesn't shake the bot.

You're getting there!

Thanks for the comments pwnator!

I tried mounting the durm on a SnapperII but whatever I did, the thing would shake about hopelessly... The servo - tribar combination, for whatever reason, maintains stability a hell of a lot more. On this basis, perhaps a static, more weapon setup is still the way to go, despite the extra speed of mounting on a servo; I guess I'll keep playing.

I would like to make a proto type of a much lower, faster design, but utilising the flat (yellow) servo and a tribar, so I can mount the drum lower. Again, this would still be heavy, but I feel like it would make a good experiment nonetheless.

Final notes... I completely forgot bigger chassis = more hp! Its been a while... I have now mastered the effe glitch and snapper loading  through these designs which will hopefully make building bots later down the line much easier.

[Hi5er]

Hi all, with the recent success of my drum bot in Thrack's Tricycle Takedown tournament, I thought I should update my showcase with the Conundrum iteration that I entered (as well as my 5 wheel drive concept bot that didn't make the cut!)

Presenting Conundrum v6!



(With Plow removed to help show innards more clearly)

Features:
3x HP ZTek Drive (The gimmick of the tournie was to use robots with an odd number of wheels)
2x Stacked Supervolts for the power
8x Maces and 16x Razors mounted to two HP Ztek Motors for the Weaponry.

Due to the results I think this can certainly be classed as a success. I've tried to take a few pictures to show the innards. Criticism and comments welcome!

----------

And the bot that didn't make the cut!






Features:
5x HP ZTek Drive (Consequently, this bot would have been the only entrant to not use 3 wheels... Pity!)
Top and Side armour
24x Iron Spikes and 4x Single Ice Pick's as ramming weapons
2x Stacked Supervolts for the power
Invertible

The thought process was: I assumed everyone would make a 3 wheel bot, hence if I made a bot with 5 wheels it would have the best drive in the tournament... That uses a lot of weight however. The most efficient weapon system in the game is a ram setup, so I thought, , why not.

The main problem with this guy is he span around in circles a lot. The opening charge when the match started was insanely strong but after that it can't seem to drive in a straight line very often. Very fun though and I really like the design, not sure why, think the side armour plates just appeal to me and it all seems to fold together nicely, when I rotated the snappers to adjust something in the centre it felt like I was taking it apart or "removing the hood" or something, whatever.

OP updated too.

[Badger]

Very cool rammer there.

[Hi5er]

Very cool rammer there.

Thanks mate!

If looks could kill I'd be laughing... He just wasn't all that good in testing! 

[WeN]

Conundrum v6 look powerful

[Hi5er]

Conundrum v6 look powerful

Thanks man :)

Definitely worked well!

[R01]

Other people ninja'd me to the reply but nice seeing that.
Was there a Conundrum 3,4 or 5 as well, I see the project is finished but if you do your next drum bot, any plans to sticking to that three wheel drive or would 2wd with more weapons be better?(it's interesting how such contests might give people new ideas).

The drum sure was strong. As for the glitch, I'm actually ok with that, after seeing the stock glitches I gotta say that I'm fine with them used, personally I still try to avoid some but burst motors clipping into other things or axle loading is fine(the first one is used by some Atomizer versions anyways, mostly because pistons are so bulky to fit inside the chassis, think the same can be said about maces) so the big difference is competitive vs non competitive designs.

So that's how that rammer looked, was wondering about it. Seeing how good Conundrum was and how you had this spare bot I really thought that you were a veteran, makes me wonder what posts you did back when you were first online. Kinda expected only 3 wheels in the tournament because of weight but hoped that some joke bots would possibly have more. I get what you mean with sliding off the top plate, I actually built something similar to test for the new tournament, having the wheels on snapper II's, did yours have about 5 seconds each time you went back into the botlab?(dunno what really happened with mine there).

One guess that I have about the wheels is that they get stuck, with F12 you can enable wireframe hitboxes, maybe you can then see what's going on(the only other thing would be that the wheels start not touching the ground). One odd glitch I once had happen during building of a different bot is that one motor didn't seem to work, so I had to disable one of 4 to drive forward, later placed all of those again and they worked flawlessly, spinning when driving backwards still seems to happen common with no real way to fix. But doubt this has something to do with this.

[Hi5er]

Other people ninja'd me to the reply but nice seeing that.
Was there a Conundrum 3,4 or 5 as well, I see the project is finished but if you do your next drum bot, any plans to sticking to that three wheel drive or would 2wd with more weapons be better?(it's interesting how such contests might give people new ideas).

The drum sure was strong. As for the glitch, I'm actually ok with that, after seeing the stock glitches I gotta say that I'm fine with them used, personally I still try to avoid some but burst motors clipping into other things or axle loading is fine(the first one is used by some Atomizer versions anyways, mostly because pistons are so bulky to fit inside the chassis, think the same can be said about maces) so the big difference is competitive vs non competitive designs.

So that's how that rammer looked, was wondering about it. Seeing how good Conundrum was and how you had this spare bot I really thought that you were a veteran, makes me wonder what posts you did back when you were first online. Kinda expected only 3 wheels in the tournament because of weight but hoped that some joke bots would possibly have more. I get what you mean with sliding off the top plate, I actually built something similar to test for the new tournament, having the wheels on snapper II's, did yours have about 5 seconds each time you went back into the botlab?(dunno what really happened with mine there).

One guess that I have about the wheels is that they get stuck, with F12 you can enable wireframe hitboxes, maybe you can then see what's going on(the only other thing would be that the wheels start not touching the ground). One odd glitch I once had happen during building of a different bot is that one motor didn't seem to work, so I had to disable one of 4 to drive forward, later placed all of those again and they worked flawlessly, spinning when driving backwards still seems to happen common with no real way to fix. But doubt this has something to do with this.

There was a Conundrum v3/4/5, but they were experiments of mounting the drum on different things, each of them were either mildly successful, or a downright fail, but none that I feel are worthy of a publish due to their lack of effectiveness or refinement.

Interestingly, I think the 3 wheel drive works incredibly well for conundrum as it is now, the extra pushing power over 2 wheels and saving that extra 42kgs for not being 4 wheel drive seems to strike a nice balance, power supply is never an issue either.

What I posted back when I first joined is better left forgotten I think  I saw Wen managed to find an old DSL showcase of mine (with 1 bot in it!), but again, I was primarily stock back then as well and I don't recall making anything note worthy...

Maybe that's what causes the spinning on my rammer... Maybe I'll post a video some point of it in action so you can see what I mean. I assumed because the wheels are perfectly aligned (due to being on a T connector) it shouldn't be a balancing issue, so maybe it is some weird glitch - And yes, it does take a fair while to load from the bot lab!

Thanks for the comment bud,

[R01]

There was a Conundrum v3/4/5, but they were experiments of mounting the drum on different things, each of them were either mildly successful, or a downright fail, but none that I feel are worthy of a publish due to their lack of effectiveness or refinement.

Interestingly, I think the 3 wheel drive works incredibly well for conundrum as it is now, the extra pushing power over 2 wheels and saving that extra 42kgs for not being 4 wheel drive seems to strike a nice balance, power supply is never an issue either.

What I posted back when I first joined is better left forgotten I think  I saw Wen managed to find an old DSL showcase of mine (with 1 bot in it!), but again, I was primarily stock back then as well and I don't recall making anything note worthy...

Maybe that's what causes the spinning on my rammer... Maybe I'll post a video some point of it in action so you can see what I mean. I assumed because the wheels are perfectly aligned (due to being on a T connector) it shouldn't be a balancing issue, so maybe it is some weird glitch - And yes, it does take a fair while to load from the bot lab!

Thanks for the comment bud,

Aww, would've liked to see those, then again I can understand, have had many failed experiments as well. Hoped I could see how it changed from this short to a rather long chassis system.
Nice to see that the 3wd works great, I guess if this was in normal stock, people would most likely question what the 3rd drive had to do in that bot, having contests like that or doing experimental bots really shows people new stuff, so who knows, maybe we will see more 3wd stuff in the future?

I saw the DSL thread as well, dunno if it was via Wen's link(no idea where he posted it) the bot doesn't actually look bad, also you didn't upload any of the other stock bots?

Perfectly aligned wheels shouldn't cause trouble as far as I know, might want to try bigger wheels for testing. Hmm, so do the wheels cause the game to load that long or what? Something put on SnapperII's seems to cause it, we both had it happen with drive and HP Zteks work fine themselves.

[Hi5er]

Wow... I haven't posted here since July...! I've had a bit of builders block lately, that combined with a lot of failed experiments in the bot lab and a few other failed designs have really set me back lately.

A good tournament is just what I needed I think, something to focus on.

Here's my entry for a stock MW tournament:




Sticking with the drum theme, here's my attempt at a MW version. It won in it's first challenge match against Redace, but will be interesting to see how it fairs against some other designs.

The Iron spikes let it self right if it gets flipped on it's side. I could replace them with extenders, but it only saves about 12 Kg, if you can think of something useful I can use that weight for, let me know!