Author Topic: R01 sucks at DSL  (Read 1973 times)

Offline R01

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R01 sucks at DSL
« on: August 02, 2016, 12:33:56 PM »
So I finally made a DSL thread, best to say some stuff about it first:

I am not too big of a fan of DSL, don't get me wrong I really respect Click's work and see why it's popular(it was the only choice instead of building stock stuff for a long time and even now has more stuff than Ironforge) it has also a lot of content giving players a big choice and has replicas included as well, what more could you ask for?

Well, I've been having quite a few issues with DSL which make me prefer Stock and Ironforge(don't worry, there will be a Ironforge showcase some day), however DSL still has a bigger part variety and allows "normal" building(even if the DSL-S rules have been stretched to no end where it's basically like stock?) so I guess you will be seeing bots here once in a while.

If anyone is interested in the issues I'm having with DSL:


Chaos
1.5 Plastic 3

After seeing Mazakari's latest creation, I just knew that I wanted a flipper like this. I've seen the exact design somewhere else before but I'm not sure where, only thing that comes to my mind is Chaos, but that one had the wheels on the back of the bot.

Since this is kind of a mix of both versions I decided to call it Chaos 1.5. It isn't that great, the wedge sucks, it often ends up flipping itself forward when it's under a enemy(this seems to be a general problem for rear hinged flippers?) and the flipper isn't that strong.

The battery lasts for the entire fight if you don't flipperspam and the most important extenders are made out of steel(sadly the side ones, holding the armor plates aren't), the two on the back are there for self righting so that it doesn't get stuck.
That one extender at the back didn't want to connect in the non rotated placement(I tried both ends) so I had to rotate it a bit, will try to fix this later.

I really hope that the TWM3 "good for drive" quote wasn't wrong and that this is a drive and not a weapon motor.
I'm not sure if armor plate placement is even allowed like that, but that was the best I got. Originally wanted to have square armor plates on the front but rule of 7 is stopping me on it.

Probably the worst DSL-S/IRL first bot that's been created in the last few years, any chance that this thing can be saved or does a design like that mean instant fail?
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Offline Badger

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 12:39:19 PM »
It's not the worst. I would improve the weapon motor and drive, increase to a HW and cover the rest of it in armour plates to make it look cooler. RO7 break is allow in basically everything so you should be good to use it.
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Offline R01

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 01:19:49 PM »
It's not the worst. I would improve the weapon motor and drive, increase to a HW and cover the rest of it in armour plates to make it look cooler. RO7 break is allow in basically everything so you should be good to use it.
Thanks for the feedback.
What would the next best drive be?
The attachment points for the NPC-T64 Left/Right seem to be different and those seem to be the last drive motors(unless I'd switch to 4wd but that doesn't really work with the design).
Same problem with the burst motors because I doubt that MAG or BSG's are stronger, JX has a annoying clicking sound and the next would be beta, which is rather big for this.

I'd like to keep it MW and I doubt that I could fit much into this small compact robot, even with upgraded extenders it would most likely end up being underweight.
Nice to hear that RO7 is getting more and more allowed, from what I've last seen it wasn't allowed but it's more of a annoyance than something that stops players from doing gamebreaking stuff.
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Offline botomatic1000

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 01:54:55 PM »
You don't suck man look at the crap I build lol. It's a very nice bot for looks and I reckon it would work fine
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Offline Badger

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 03:18:33 PM »
You could put the burst behind the bot and use the longer ones. For motors I think those are find it you keep it MW but for HW you'll need to improve it somehow. It's an IRL bot so it doesn't really matter tbh.
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Offline R01

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 03:50:32 PM »
You could put the burst behind the bot and use the longer ones. For motors I think those are find it you keep it MW but for HW you'll need to improve it somehow. It's an IRL bot so it doesn't really matter tbh.
Well, I still want it to be kinda fast and good in combat, so the wedge and speed are a issue for a bit. thought about the burst thing but I worry that they would easily get damaged. Making it longer would also increase the height(by the way, that attachment point is glitched for the bursts, I needed to move it up by one or the game kept telling me that it was clipping something which it wasn't, goes inside the chassis bottom), not sure if I'd exactly want that.
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Offline R01

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 05:13:12 PM »
Well I ended up following badger's advice and built a HW version:

Uses Rule of 7 break, Plastic 1
This was the only motor choice that I really had, Eteks seem to be the best drive? but a fast HW would most likely require 4. It does turn the bot a bit too fast but there isn't much I can do against that. The NPC Left/Right have different attachment points which is most likely a bug:

Sadly I made the mistake of wanting 45 degree angles on the side, because of this the bot got way wider than it should have(the 45 degree angle connectors also don't seem to be perfect 45 degrees? still looking for a solution with bigger angles instead of stacking them on top of eachother.) and pannels no longer lined up(I can do better than this and have the pannels connect with almost no gaps)
Second best flipper motor since the bigger one wouldn't want to fit(their collision hitbox seems to be off), sadly not too strong so it sucks at flipping, wedge is still terrible and can easily break off.
I do like the way I placed it and how the plastic chassis looks like a Co2 bottle, but I'll remake this one sometime soon. Enjoyed building it.

Also built this designed around the Tornado spinner killer wedge. Because of that it needed to be a middleweight:

Motors make it suprisingly fast(but I think that's needed for pushing power, since speed is the only factor for that?) flipper seems to be alright and hammer isn't too great(again putting those bursts with their glitchy hitboxes was a pain, originally had the motors moved in by 2 pixels so the axle wouldn't stick out(to create a more realistic look). Sometimes it seems to be way too powerful for itself, flipping the robot over again when trying to self right. Batteries are also a big issue here. Not really sure what to do with it. Armor is one of the plastic ones(I would love to pick a metal one, however all the armor I need is usually at around 10 weight and since there's none with that, the next best is plastic)

Not sure what to do with the hammer, looks like the DSL bots have good armor so you would need to hit them for ages. I'm using Redace's Stock AI remake which is amazing and fun to play with.
There's another issue with the results screen, for some reason one of the tracks always pops up like that. This isn't a sideways angle shot, the track just pushes the bot so much up.

Protip for any DSL beginner, look at the tracks section and you will see all drive motors(minus the TWM Drive, but the description of that should be obvious). DSL axles also glitch so much, there's no need for axle loading because they do that themselves, much like the mini baseplate anchor which accidently stacked a few times.
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Offline R01

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2016, 08:55:31 AM »

Built this on what I remembered from Warrior Clan, so the wedge wasn't exactly accurate. There's also a bit of clipping with the extenders but unless we get flat extenders that one isn't going to be really fixable, so I hope we can let that clip slide.
Was originally going to be built in IF but IF doesn't have the triangle pannels.

Since you can't see the insides:
5x Long 20 KG Batteries(probably a bit overkill)
Normal Perm, mounted at the back
Plastic 8kg? for armor, we really need something that's 10kg.
TWM2 for drive with ant wheels
I know that the front motors are probably ant weapon ones, they don't spin and are only there to help with driving since axle mounts wouldn't fit there.
Originally had Hypno Teeth only on every second plate, going in a _ - _ - pattern, but increased them as I had leftover weight and they kept falling off rather easily.
Flipper uses a small burst piston motor, couldn't really fit anything bigger in it. Sometimes works with self righting, other times needs to fire multiple times, can flip some robots from Redace's pack while it struggles with others.

For some reason DSL sometimes likes to crash after parts are removed, dunno why exactly, happened quite a lot with Industrial Coalminer(had to redo the match 3 times until one hit caused it to Havok under the floor) as well as the Jackpot LW(fought in the battlebox arena).

I'll probably remove some of the Hypno Teeth again and reduce armor so a minibot can be added. As for the combat performance, I'd say it's ok but could be better. DSL(at least with the Hypno Teeth) has the same problems as Stock, once a part of the spinner is gone you're going to spend lots of time fixing it, so all the 30 minutes are usually spent on fixing Hypno Teeth so they don't break off.


I wonder, would it be possible to set the flipper speed/power by getting the perm's speed via a python script?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 09:30:49 AM by R01 »
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Offline Lemonism

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2016, 09:53:39 AM »
Very nice work here man, looks overall very clean and well constructed

I wonder, would it be possible to set the flipper speed/power by getting the perm's speed via a python script?
I'd also like to know this, I've got a bot like this that would need it. I doubt you can set the power of the actual flip from the speed of the perm, but it could well be possible to just not allow it to fire until the perm reaches a certain speed.
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Offline R01

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2016, 10:00:58 AM »
Very nice work here man, looks overall very clean and well constructed

I wonder, would it be possible to set the flipper speed/power by getting the perm's speed via a python script?
I'd also like to know this, I've got a bot like this that would need it. I doubt you can set the power of the actual flip from the speed of the perm, but it could well be possible to just not allow it to fire until the perm reaches a certain speed.
Thanks, I'm always wanting to get more comments on my work.
It all depends if component values can be written. From a earlier question in the AI thread I know that it's possible to get the current value of servo rotations, dunno if the flip power gets stored somewhere(or if there's a random factor to it, since sometimes the burst motors fire stronger), but if it does then this might be possible.
The other solution would definitely be possible, but given how this flipper lacks power it's probably not going to do too well.
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Offline R01

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2016, 10:11:58 AM »

Built this monster yesterday.
Think it's still a WIP and I'll most likely upgrade it to be 2500kg(because there's a inofficial weightclass somewhere between SHW and UHW from what I've heard?) originally started with building a XT Series 7 like bot but I quickly realized that it's going to be too heavy, got Sergepatcher, upgraded the armor and made this tank, think it only loses by points or getting thrown out of the Arena.
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Offline Badger

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2016, 10:17:58 AM »
>UHW with LW weapons

drive looks too close together too, can it turn alright?
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Offline R01

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Re: R01 sucks at DSL
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2016, 10:20:23 AM »
>UHW with LW weapons

drive looks too close together too, can it turn alright?
Yeah, that's another thing, didn't know those were LW(if DSL gets updated one day adding descriptions to that stuff would greatly help, so we would no longer see weapon motor drive). Did notice how easily they break off and thought that 2000 kg would be the next limit so there wasn't enough for better teeth. Think the next upgrade will have 2 weapon motors with 2 discs each having 4 of the big heavy ripping teeth(if that's what they're called).

Was going for more real life accuracy to XT, drive seemed to be nice in the test garage but isn't that great in battle. I do have a plan to give it great side turning however.
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