Starcore AI Pack 4.0 Reboot

[Dreamcast]

The modern stiltbot works well against the big three robot types. Especially if you build them the way Geice mentioned.

Speaking of anti popup/HS/SnS designs, would an all crawler team be a good idea? The crawler has evolved since 2004 and those newer robots are legal in tournaments that do not explicitly ban crawlers.

[Starcore]

The modern stiltbot works well against the big three robot types. Especially if you build them the way Geice mentioned.

Speaking of anti popup/HS/SnS designs, would an all crawler team be a good idea? The crawler has evolved since 2004 and those newer robots are legal in tournaments that do not explicitly ban crawlers.

I am more than happy to have a team of Stiltbots to show off the techniques from small to large though of course, it may be a challenge to make Stiltbots in the lower weight classes.

I am sure Mome Rath would enjoy the company.

The team could be called the Menagerie or something like that (I think a group of Giraffes are called a Tower).

The only concern I can see is that it is taking advantage of AI limitations and would not work versus a human bot pilot that would just attack the legs. Will have to think on that. I would need to look into python options to detect Z height and change to some kind of spiral attack pattern if bot is above you. Well, could put secondary smartzones way above a bot to force alternate attack behavior.

As for crawlers: I allowed crawlers back as far as ACAMS SHW Crawler back in 2004. I am not against crawlers as a valid building method. While some think the method is unfair, the same could be said of 36HS as too overboard or snapper loading or Caster Armor to oppose Popups or...

Regarding the 140cm square extender: I pushed for the community to support the hidden parts under the theory that you could face someone in Network PVP match that has that part and your default copy of RA2 would not complain so allowing the parts makes sure it is a level playing field and makes sure it is not cases of have vs have nots.

I am against bots that cannot control their motion. If a bot cannot reach a point across an arena in a reasonable amount of time and disable an immobilized opponent, then they shouldn't be allowed. Battlebots events in real life had a similar rule about must be able to exhibit controlled motion. I feel the same way about 1-wheel bots and bots that just flail around if they cannot exhibit controlled motion.

I realize bots can start flailing around after weapons and wheels are stripped off but they should at least be able to start a match with controlled motion.

I also have the rule to get in the Starcore pack, a bot needs to be able to beat 1 or more (preferably more) bots of same weight class in the pack (Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock). And if a bot is left behind because of other bots getting improved then if a bot can no longer beat any other bot in the pack in its same weight class it should be pulled. Pushers and Flippers get to be considered in no-wall arenas.

So, yes to crawlers and stilt bots and even 1-wheeled bots that can be AIed to show controlled motion are potentially fair game. My goal is effective, efficient diversity. To display a wide range of bot building techniques and how they can be effective.

Starcore

[Starcore]

The packs are available at: https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?action=downloads;sa=myfiles;u=5/

I recommend installing Starcore V3 then replacing the /AI teams with the /AI team in the Starcore v4 Alpha2 pack.

Note: It is an Alpha and not a full pack release.

Starcore

I was more hoping someone had extracted the bot files from the teams so I could open them in the lab. But that's just me being lazy.

Dang, I am going to be double and triple posting to catch up on all the questions and comments. Sorry about this to everyone.

I did more thinking about "extracting the bot files". The Bots in the AI teams are named Bot0.bot through Bot5.bot and they are named the same way in your Botlab teams. So it doesn't help to rename them to their actual name and if I did rename them to their actual bot name you would just have to rename them back to Bot0.bot through Bot5.bot to put in your Botlab.

So as you want to check out one of the AI teams, make a new team in your bot lab. (Your first bot team will be put in Team0 for example, the 15th team would be put in Team14) Then outside of RA2 just drag and drop one the AI teams to your new Team folder that RA2 created for you when you created a fresh team in your Botlab and when you jump back into RA2 the AI team will be in that team list for you to review and play with.

I can write up a step by step procedure if needed but that is the gist of it.

Starcore

[botbuster]

Is your deadly rammer War Machine is in the Alpha 2 pack or will it be in another alpha?

[Jammy Dodger]

i want this pack to be stock as it might help get stock back on its feet again :D

[Starcore]

Warmachine is not in Starcore v4 Alpha2. I plan on including it in the next review release. I am also opening up the pack for roughly 10 more teams to be included if there is interest to show off some quality latest efforts.

And yes Starcore started Stock and will stay Stock. That is its premise and I will stick to it. When I created Starcore v1, pack makers often resorted to using overpowered custom components to "compete" with human drivers. I felt that should not be needed and it wasn't. Tight building and good AI can keep humans on their toes.

Starcore

[Squirrel_Monkey]

I went and manually got all the bots from their teams and gave them the correct names for easy importing.
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=354
Obviously you will have to look up the teams yourself but this should help save some time moving files.

What's with the team 35 by the way? They don't have bindings.

EDIT: Here is my in progress review: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J6t9tarSfUm15M30gSPqY5jCNZkGNwCRTJi2b-pzVtA/edit#gid=0
Open to all. Please don't ruin it :)

[Dreamcast]

"Ah yes, the famous Vortex CE. I'm not sure how
we change this without violating the 'spirit' of
the deisgn. At least we could use snappers
instead of servos."

I'm assuming the "spirit" of Vortex CE is it's height. Vortex CE is an overcutter, so the height is a strategic measure to keep the weapons out of direct contact with another robot's front, unless something went over my head. I don't want to start advocating anything crazy, but we may be able to shorten this robot and keep it an overcutter. We can add a weapon breaker like Geice's Dizzy Bees rebuild and use more irons to improve durability up, especially if CE is shortened. Alternatively, caster armor can reduce the robot's weakness to popups and low spinners.

What's with the team 35 by the way? They don't have bindings.

Team 35's binding weren't included in Starcore. I believe Ian included bindings in his AI pack compilation.


Edit: more thoughts
The main three robots Spin doctors are pretty good. Maelstrom could do with Maces and no back plow. I think the robot's front plow are ok for two reasons.
1. It shows newbies that a HW HS can have more than just weapons.
2. The use of plows put the robot in line with Tempus Fugit and Fury.

The MW popups should be improved. Win Win WIN! and Mutiny 2 are too similar to each other. Both need to be rebuilt to account for the newer power output of one nifty and one supervolt. In order to differentiate the robots, one should probably be granted a substantial boost in armor. Speaking of armor, Epic Jr needs some badly in order to not get killed in 0:30. Synergy is like an older version of Sesim 16 and could be improved with more armor. XZAI 2 (or I guess this could be XZAI 3) could be rebuilt as an ultra shallow popup.

Ganja Benifactor's spot should go to an Oak style HS/rammer hybrid.
Ultraviolet could be rebuilt to look more like Inf's Medium 2.

[yugitom]

I don't think you need to sign off on each message :P

yugitom

[Scrap Daddy]

I'm also always willing to help. There are a few builds by Lugica and Trovaner I think never made it into the alpha. I have a few rebuilds as well.

I'd like to see some competition in Stock building again.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

We're getting a nice list together of things to do on the google sheet.
Starcore, are you on the discord? It might help us answer some of your questions about new developments.

[Starcore]

I went and manually got all the bots from their teams and gave them the correct names for easy importing.
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=354
Obviously you will have to look up the teams yourself but this should help save some time moving files.

What's with the team 35 by the way? They don't have bindings.

EDIT: Here is my in progress review: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J6t9tarSfUm15M30gSPqY5jCNZkGNwCRTJi2b-pzVtA/edit#gid=0
Open to all. Please don't ruin it :)

Team 35 was something I was working on bringing in to the pack for testing and when I made the Alpha2 build and sent to my testers I didn't realize that team had not been fully activated.

I deeply appreciate you helping with making a Zip of all the robots to help with the review process and putting out a Google Docs spreadsheet for us to real time add comments. That has been quite useful.

We're getting a nice list together of things to do on the google sheet.
Starcore, are you on the discord? It might help us answer some of your questions about new developments.

I was at the Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 movie and recently back. Checking if you all are still in Discord...

Starcore

[kill343gs]

I don't think you need to sign off on each message :P

yugitom

He does it so he can find posts responding to and talking about things related to his projects more easily. He's always done it. It helps when you have a penchant for disappearing for lengths of time.

[Starcore]

Guilty as charged (touches finger to nose)...Basically Search bookmarks.

Starcore

[Mecha]

I could help you with making some remakes if you'd like

[kix]

Ya know what would be good? Ironforge IRL!

[Badnik96]

Ya know what would be good? Ironforge IRL!

what the **** are you talking about

[090901]

2 quick updates

Adware PLUS is now a Hammer/Popup/Clampy thing instead of a poor hammer with and odd wamming rack setup. It's obviously not the best fighter but I dig it since it's something different. Chassis has empty space since I pretty much reused the old one and there isn't anything else I could see the weight going to.

Reused the old chassis since it's pretty good and I like the wheelguard bit + it's already skinned. Now has 6 razors instead of 4, 1 black and 1 nifty instead of 1 black and 2 pinks, and a longer single wedge. Oh, and the wheels are fitted better in the openings. 

[doot]

Ya know what would be good? Ironforge IRL!

what the **** are you talking about

What Badnik said. SC AI will never be anything other than Stock Unrealistic as that is what it has always been.

[Avalanche]

Ya know what would be good? Ironforge IRL!

what the **** are you talking about

No need to flame him for it. I'll show how you should answer TGM:

TGM, the Starcore AI packs are legendary Stock AI packs, which have never not been Stock. To change it to something like Ironforge IRL is not a good idea: Starcore will (though a DSL-S pack for DSL 2.2 AS-Rebalanced would be neat imo Starcore will be Stock, and there is definitely an audience for it) always be Unrealistic Stock. While your suggestion is not invalid or worthless, if you want a AI pack like that you'll have to make it yourself. Also, I think DSL 2.2 has more in the way of components for building IRL.