Author Topic: NAR AI 2020 - DSL 2.1 Standard AI pack (Read 171460 times)

Gauche Suede · « **Reply #1260 on:** October 06, 2012, 07:19:38 AM »

Quote from: 090901 on October 05, 2012, 08:56:13 PM

Quote from: Gauche Suede on October 05, 2012, 08:55:05 PM
Nary said that his DSL got corrupted so that means that NAR AI 2.8 won't get released until Nary gets motivation....
I'm pretty sure he wants to finish his tourney and put all the bots from it into it first.

Here's what he said when i PMed him about NAR AI 2.8:

Quote from: Naryar on October 04, 2012, 05:30:27 AM

My game is corrupted, and i'm lazy. I will release something, I just need to find the motivation.

Naryar · « **Reply #1261 on:** October 06, 2012, 09:05:22 AM »

Well, this whole "gives deadline and blatantly disregards it" comedy has to stop. I'm supposed to be the laaaaaaaawwwwwww !!!1, after all.

So i'll just stop giving you deadlines for nar ai releases.

Besides, you WILL have a v2.8 and v3.0. I just have no idea when I will work on it.

But I didn't built much and didn't organized my building, so we shall see.

Naryar · « **Reply #1262 on:** October 29, 2012, 04:31:05 PM »

Hello there. No release (mostly because I don't get much teams, and I don't build much), but I intend to completely rebalance the components, including the weapon rebalancing formula.

I also intend to remove most of the useless normals.

Currently it is (183.3P + 100C)/(W*HP) = 60000, and a bit more (something like 75000) for components with normals.
P = piercing, C = concussion, W = weight, HP = hitpoints.

The problem is that it does not consider the large domination of Piercing over Concussion, it favors spamming a large number of components, and it does not include normals nor fracture. Not to forget what J said : three quarters of the components are worthless.

So I intend to change the standard 60000 to a function that has a minima under 7kg, and grows when it goes beyond 7 kg. More specifically, I'll take a 7kg component (the razor tip) as basis for 60000, and a 100kg component as having something like 150000. So the 70kg hammer will be roughly twice as powerful as it is now, and the Killdozer blade... well, let's say it might start to become competitive.

I choose an exponential, so the new formula looks like:

60000^(1+0,001(M-7))*1,5N = (200*P + 100*C)/(HP*M) + 100*(20-F)

Efficiency is 60000 for weapons under 7 kg. Normal boost still applies.

Still searching for a function for efficiency. I think a power function (x^n) would be good.

M being the mass in kgs, N being either 1 if the component has normals or 2/3 if the component has NO normals, P piercing, C concussion, HP hitpoints, and F being fracture.

If anyone is not too horrified at this math and has something to say, then go on. I intend on balancing all weapons then releasing the new component folder.

Examples:
Killdozer plow: 1000 fracture, 75000 HP, 3 concussion, 0.42 piercing (384 DP)
70kg hammer: 200 fracture, 20000 HP, 3.56 concussion, 0 piercing (356 DP)
Battle axe (with normals) : 80 fracture, 4500 HP, 1 concussion, 1.625 piercing (425 DP)
Razor tip : 20 fracture, 1000 HP, 2.1 piercing, 0 concussion (420 DP)

Naryar · « **Reply #1263 on:** November 07, 2012, 06:47:23 PM »

https://gametechmods.com/uploads/files/narai28weaponrebalance.rar

here it is. all the weapons are rebalanced, not the other stuff.

you also must have the latest version of the components folder of nar ai for this to work, and no components. cfz in your main ra2 folder. if you have one + nar ai components you installed it wrong.

most of the heavy weapons are more powerful, and most of the <10kg weapons have been slightly nerfed. the heavier they are the more powerful they become. Notably fracture has been completely changed and efficiency is no longer 60000 for all components to avoid the dominance of weapon spam.

Note that some components have had their normals modified, mostly for the better. Some components that did not have normals have been added some, nothing very dramatic though.

Next release will be the extenders and extras rebalance, with some fixes to the weapons if I see problems. THEN I will continue normal, full nar ai releases.

Mr. AS · « **Reply #1264 on:** November 07, 2012, 07:33:57 PM »

hurray time to spam normals weapons

123savethewhales · « **Reply #1265 on:** November 07, 2012, 09:50:02 PM »

Let's see if that stupid vlad spike is worth 2 cents now.

J · « **Reply #1266 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:47:29 PM »

Quote from: Mr. AwesumSauce on November 07, 2012, 07:33:57 PM

hurray time to spam normals weapons

I know, right?
We get to use something that isn't a razor! =D

123savethewhales · « **Reply #1267 on:** November 08, 2012, 05:28:37 PM »

Any chance you would add these minor changes to the steel blade?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/57665180/blade.zip

1. added ap to base, lineup and fix collision to better match the blade.
2. added y normal

Also, any chance in changing the weight to 8, 12, 16, and 20? I mean it only makes sense for weight to progress this way given 40cm, 60cm, 80cm, and 100cm.

123savethewhales · « **Reply #1268 on:** November 19, 2012, 09:10:10 AM »

https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,3216.msg559854.html#msg559854

Can you use this Nightmare Disc GMF? Cuz the one one was so obviously broken.

Naryar · « **Reply #1269 on:** December 04, 2012, 11:26:39 AM »

Hey everyone. I am currently modding the Extenders and Extras to be more balanced, Here are the formulae that I am using:

Efficiency = 60000^(1+0,003(Mass-1))

Metal = standard value (0,2)

Concussion = 1+ 0,0007*Mass^2,1

Fracture = 20+ Mass^1,5, squared at the closest multiple of ten
_____________
HP = (Efficiency -10*Fracture - 200)*Mass/(60*Concussion*VNumber of ap's ) <= this last one is a square root.

Overall, most of the components are quite stronger, although there have been a few nerfs to some components.

I'm not finished yet, but you can see this spreadsheet to see what i'm doing : https://gametechmods.com/uploads/files/rebalance extenders.rar

123savethewhales · « **Reply #1270 on:** December 07, 2012, 08:59:08 PM »

May I suggest the following changes to motors?

Earlier drive changed so they don't suck.

Boost torque on weapon motor so spinners actually deal damage.

Flat HP because piglet and dual perm got 8000 hp as is. Plus you already getting more speed and torque for the KG, I don't think HP should scale as well. Aside from balance issues, real life spinners actually toss stuff pretty far on contact, and nowhere near as wimpy as the motor currently in DSL.

Naryar · « **Reply #1271 on:** December 09, 2012, 03:53:22 PM »

OK, here's the news : I will continue my complex extender rebalance, although exponential growth of components will stop at some point to not have ridiculously overpowered heavy components.

Spin motors will be boosted.

Pistons will be seriously boosted.

CO2 tanks will have even more air.

Flails will all have 200 HP.

Servos and servo pistons will be lighter and more powerful.

Weapon's metal value will be boosted to 1, making all weapons deal roughly 20-25% more damage.

Weapons which deal damage only in 1 direction (axe, gothic axe, pole spike, pointy tip, among others) will have efficiency boosted by x2, for encouraging their use.

Finally, all darkrat and 123ai weapons and components included in later versions will be REMOVED for now, with the exception of the darkpack scoop. Be sure to replace your teams containing these components.

I will try to release the new Nar ai v2.8 around January, but no certitude.

Naryar · « **Reply #1272 on:** December 11, 2012, 07:17:50 AM »

Changed a bit my goals, everything's in the post before this one.

Mr. AS · « **Reply #1273 on:** December 11, 2012, 01:56:24 PM »

hey are you accepting teams whilst youre doing all of this component rebalancing stuff?

Naryar · « **Reply #1274 on:** December 11, 2012, 02:03:56 PM »

Sure, as always.

Gauche Suede · « **Reply #1275 on:** December 12, 2012, 09:29:25 PM »

Quote from: Naryar on December 11, 2012, 02:03:56 PM

Sure, as always.

Are you accepting a Shogun (or what ever that samurai popup that isn't ronin) rebuild ? That thing has half-sheet wedges (bad) and only 2 samurais (should be 4).

Naryar · « **Reply #1276 on:** December 13, 2012, 04:04:37 AM »

123 beat you to it. So nope, another bot maybe.

Gauche Suede · « **Reply #1277 on:** December 13, 2012, 07:01:01 AM »

Quote from: Naryar on December 13, 2012, 04:04:37 AM

123 beat you to it. So nope, another bot maybe.

Didn't he made Shogun and not Samurai ???

Naryar · « **Reply #1278 on:** December 13, 2012, 07:10:30 AM »

He made the only HW. You can attempt one of the two MW's if you wish.

Naryar · « **Reply #1279 on:** December 21, 2012, 05:38:52 AM »

https://gametechmods.com/uploads/files/nar ai 2.8 rebalance weapons + extenders.rar

Here is the second release of the extenders + weapons rebalance.

Note that I only did the extenders, which is quite a bit of work nevertheless. The weapons have been unchanged since the last version.

Most of the rebalance has given far higher HP to most extenders and armor, while balancing fracture.

What still to do :
-Single normal weapons efficiency multiplier must be brought to x2 instead of x1.5
-Put metal value of all weapons to 1 instead of 0.7, to cope with the overall armor/extender HP increase
-Boost spin motors
-Boost pistons
-Boost air tanks

Feel free to give opinions, notes, and generally be constructive, because I don't really have time for testing.

I will release one last component release in a few days, including all the former stuff, then I will work on nar ai 2.8 proper.