Author Topic: Zyro_Falcon's DSL Showcase (Read 4313 times)

Zyro_Falcon · « **on:** October 07, 2015, 06:34:27 AM »

Quote from: Craaig on October 07, 2015, 05:03:28 AM

Aha, you're already discovering some of the quirks of RA2. As regular members stop being allowed to see this section after a few posts, I'd recommend screenshotting your creations internals and creating a DSL Showcase so everyone can give you a hand :)

(But as quick advice for now, unpowered axles add nothing for speed/handling/anything basically, and in DSL 2.1 any spin motor can be fully powered by 1 ant battery (1 per spin motor) so feel free to abuse that and not use the heavier batteries :) )

I haven't had a headache like this since starting out in Robocraft. A combination of that game and a late meeting with the 6-episode Battlebots 2015 led me here, to Robot Arena 2/DSL

So here's my prototype:

Craaig advises that I swap out the PC565s for Ant Batteries, which won't compromise power, and... basically I was looking for an unpowered axle in my 'new player' post because 4 E-Tek Drives were too powerful, yet 4 E-Teks weren't enough. So 2 Drives and one 'rudder' wheel has it swerving comfortably.

As someone who just stepped in here there's probably a lot of flaws I won't be able to catch yet. Could you advise me?

cephalopod · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2015, 06:46:32 AM »

Okay, I'll hit up some of the basics :)

1) Chassis is huge. Fit the chassis around the components, if you know what I mean. You'll save a whole lot of weight.
2) Batteries - said this one already, won't re-cover it.
3) If it's swerving, this is probably due to the mass balance when you attach the wheels (yeah, RA2 doesn't work it out on the fly, it only takes into consideration the balance when your wheels are attached) so putting them in first to avoid swerving is always a plus.
4) Unpowered wheels are a complete waste and add nothing to your bot. Sorry :P
5) Maybe consider trying out NPC fasts as drive? In DSL there are distinct drive motors and weapon motors - regular E-Teks are weapon motors and not good for drive. NPC's are the most used drive motor, and for good reason. Check them out, you may find 4 NPC Fasts does more than enough for you.

A combination of those improvements should in theory give you a nice controllable bot with some weight to spare. And you know where weight to spare goes? More weapons! :P 8 Hypno teeth is pretty low for a HW so definitely add a bunch more weaponry if you can :)

Also I edited your thread title just to make it consistent. Sorry

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2015, 07:57:43 AM »

Yow, the NPC-T64s fly like a dream!
Tonight you've risen me up from the Stone Age... Thank you!

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:11:55 PM »

Haaa, so here's the next revision:

It's yielding decent (enough) success by being able to circle and get behind - with help from its twin blades - Cranky Spanky, Grisly Bear and the like. Even Industrial Coal Miner, making it a speed/agility fight...

But I have a problem: It steers too quickly when I'm turning in place. It's happened too often to cause me to miss my blades on the target. Circling/steering while moving is fine.

Is it something I should get used too (well, I suppose a lot of turning power like that could do good if I master it) or can I do something about it in my bot's design?

Pwnator · « **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:39:22 PM »

Your chassis shape is inefficient for such a simple setup. You'll find that a trapezoid would do just fine.

As for the steering thing, just wire the rear wheels for drive while wiring the front wheels for both steering and drive.

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2015, 01:27:35 AM »

Ok, I'll try that.
Next, what class of robot does mine count as?

Naryar · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2015, 04:59:44 AM »

that's a HS. also known as horizontal spinner.

Also I do believe etek drive with techno destructo wheels may be better for this. Less weight used as well, and less big chassis.

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2015, 05:30:17 PM »

HS? I'm a little surprised. I suppose a drill weapon would count as VS, then

Now I have a critical question: Checking out M.O.E. in the Bot Lab, I notice it's using a custom Perm motor of sorts. It's got a long belt which I'd like to use (mainly so I can have my weapon motors in the middle and allowing my front wheels further out front)... But I'll have to use cheatbot2 for that. Is this acceptable (especially in multiplayer)?

cephalopod · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2015, 05:35:41 PM »

A drill would probably actually come under FS, or Face Spinner. Or just Drill.

MOE's motor is really overpowered for the weight (it has the power of a Dual Perm) so in terms of GTM Tournaments, it'd only be allowed in IRL tournaments and even then only at the hosts discretion. Also, your plan would probably violate both IRL and DSL-Standard styles of building as the drive motors would likely intersect the belt. If you don't know all too much about building styles, head to this handy guide I cooked up :)

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2015, 08:03:28 PM »

In that case, I prefer to use a more universally-accepted weapons system, then ('v')-b

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2015, 09:40:51 PM »

Electro Falcon

I think I've finally done it, the bot to suit my wings.
Power is nothing without control, and control in my case means: 'if I command it to stop (i.e. keys released), it must stop immediately.'

I'm able to turn fight most effectively with this iteration than the others (at least in singleplayer; would like to trial my idea amongst those of the population)
Fast, agile and obedient to controls.

What did I do?

I've (apparently...?) done this by balancing its weight front and back, left and right. The titanium skirt/'tailfeathers' at the back contributes to balance as well as allowing me to flip over Grog and other Shell Spinners (but wait, are there any self-righting-capable Shell Spinners? ).

4 NPC Fasts are too fast; 4 NPC Regulars are too slow

I settled with 2 Regulars in front and 2 Fasts in the rear.

The batteries are placed far from the center in an attempt to mitigate standstill over-rotation.

What did I not do?

I'm reluctant to shave away any of the empty parts of the chassis because it upset the steering. Even when I tried to change my weapon configuration (i.e. wide or narrow), my bot started oversteering severely. Whoa!

What can we do next?

I'd suppose someone with more experience building combat robots might be able to deconstruct it and put it back together even better than I can. I tried the BotExchange for the first time, so here it is, as part of my showcase!

Reier · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2015, 04:43:06 PM »

I can tell you're probably less concerned with efficiency and are more focused on looks and personal driving and stuff. That's fine, and you should totally build things you like. Just be aware that most of the showcases and the advice you'll hear is more geared to efficiency and stuff than maybe what your tastes seem to be. The problem with robots like this is that since it's so tailored to your tastes it's basically impossible to comment on. However, if you want to build stuff for tournaments, our advice is much more helpful and easier for us to give. That's what I'm going to give here.

To be honest, control reaaaaally isn't that big of a deal when it's AIed (which is how we do tournaments here), because control doesn't win fights in this game - it's damage. If you personally drive your robot then yeah its a lot easier to beat the AI because they're dumb as rocks. The problem is that the standard here is to design your robots with the intention that the AI can be able to drive them. The reason we do this is because AIing robots and fighting our bots that way is the only method we can really compete with since RA2 online is total garbage. As a result certain robot features that would be practical for humans (weapons in the back, designs tailors around specific driving strategies) are basically moot for an AI robot since they don't know how to use them well.
Your robot is fine in this regard, the wedge in the back doesn't hurt anything and doesn't use that much weight. But if you had like a whole hammer system in the back I'd say that you would want to focus your weapons in one direction for efficiency.

If your goal is to make robots competitively for tournaments and to beat the AI and such you'll find that your robot is severely underweaponed. Each of those teeth is only 10 kg and 80 kg on a 800 kg HW is very low in this game. Many of my DSL bots had half or a bit less of the entire robot weight as weapons

In real life this is stretching it but this is RA2 and it's not the most realistic thing ever. Also pressing F12 ingame shows you the collision mesh for everything. Hypno teeth for some reason have very small hitboxes and hit way less that it looks like they would. Weapon range is never a bad thing and yours doesn't have much.

Good job building to the weight limit. There's really not a reason to be under ~800kg on a HW. If you have weight just add armor or whatever, a robot with 30kg of armor is better than an identical one with 20kg of armor. Your batteries are fine too. DSL really isn't the most balanced thing ever and the basic rule of thumb is an ant battery per spin motor plus maybe 1 or 2. Unfortunately all the other batteries are kind of junk in DSL.
By the way just a little tip for the quirks of RA2 is that horizontal weight balance is basically locked at whatever it was when you first put the wheels on. It's weird I know. If I remember right I also don't think that batteries actually affect weight distribution in RA2 but I could be wrong.

I highly recommend checking out showcases and stuff to get a feel for this. Since you probably build more for looks and personal driving and stuff right now, you might want to check out the IRL-centered DSL showcases. I think DSL is one of the better mods in RA2 for building purely for looks. The others are more geared to efficiency (especially ironforge, which is very balanced).

look forward to see what you come up with next. as I said, all this advice is geared to building efficiently. If you don't want to do stuff I said, no problem. Build what you find enjoyable.

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2015, 12:58:38 AM »

Fascinating; If autonomous bots are the main method of multiplayer competition, I'd have to rethink my directions.
And now that I know the weight balance is locked at the point in time the wheels are attached, I can try shaving my chassis, then.

Reier · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2015, 01:32:16 AM »

it resets every time you put wheels on again so you'll have to do that after you rebuild the chassis

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2015, 01:36:23 AM »

Ok. By the way, Ironforge's download link seems not to be working, from GTM's 'Downloads' page.

Mr. AS · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2015, 01:43:46 AM »

Quote from: Reier on October 11, 2015, 04:43:06 PM

Weapon range is never a bad thing and yours doesn't have much.

Too much "weapon range" can negatively impact how quickly the motor takes to spin up. That's why gutrippers almost always use small spinners (example being neglected waterbug and pretty much every NWB-inspired stock juggler ever).

BTW, internal components do in fact affect steering. If you throw a bunch of batteries/ballast/whatever into one side of your robot and then attach the wheels it will veer to the side that's heavier. Your weight distro status resets to whatever it is currently when you remove and reattach the wheels.

Quote from: Zyro_Falcon on October 12, 2015, 01:36:23 AM

Ok. By the way, Ironforge's download link seems not to be working, from GTM's 'Downloads' page.

https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=228

Reier · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2015, 01:47:10 AM »

Quote from: Mr. AS on October 12, 2015, 01:43:46 AM

Quote from: Reier on October 11, 2015, 04:43:06 PM
Weapon range is never a bad thing and yours doesn't have much.
Too much "weapon range" can negatively impact how quickly the motor takes to spin up. That's why gutrippers almost always use small spinners (example being neglected waterbug and pretty much every NWB-inspired stock juggler ever).

BTW, internal components do in fact affect steering. If you throw a bunch of batteries/ballast/whatever into one side of your robot and then attach the wheels it will veer to the side that's heavier. Your weight distro status resets to whatever it is currently when you remove and reattach the wheels.

yeah im just saying his weapon here uses hypno teeth

and yes internals do affect weight distro but not if the wheels are put on first. Shoulda seen the pain I went through to get saint megaton driving straight with its asymmetry.

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2015, 08:06:41 AM »

Bringing back experience from Ironforge, I have built something of mine that can, at last, win against Grog and Shrederator by points!

madman3 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2015, 04:13:47 PM »

You can attach those Perms externally using multiextenders, which would be lighter. Perms also have a lot of hitpoints so don't worry about them getting beat up especially

Zyro_Falcon · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2015, 05:59:35 AM »

And converted another bot from Ironforge for DSL; Steel 10 2-wheeler.
You can compare this with its parent model following this shortcut link to my Ironforge Showcase.