Why are DSL Flails Cheap?

[Urjak]

I have heard many people on this forum are calling DSL flails cheap.

Regardless of whether they are right or wrong, I am asking why people think this?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

[trumpetguy]

I think it's 'cheap' because the axel part comes out of its socket making it unrealistic.

[123savethewhales]

I think flails does give a distinct advantage to SnS, as it makes it much harder to stop and pin on the wall.  They also tend to crash the game and takes longer to load if you have too many of them, especially those with flails on top of flail.  I have one myself and I always thought of it as something cheap.  But then again I always find SnS and Crawlers cheap to begin with.

[Pwnator]

The only thing I find cheap in flails is their damage potential. They merely scrape along the opponent's components. I kinda feels like a hit from Iron Spaghetti is more painful than a hit from Haymaker. Their durability isn't cheap, but they're imbalanced due to having high damage while being durable at the same time.

[Reier]

I just make a big deal about it for the sake of doing it. :P

[Resetti's Replicas]

This is news to me.  How does one go about making a "cheap" flail?  None of the ones I've made were anything to write home about.  'Twould help in the replica building, I've always wanted to do Lizzard.  Thanks in advance

[JoeBlo]

takes longer to load if you have too many of them

clash cubes 2 ? Head Chef and Exponential Decay both had a flail count in the 40-50 range :P

[123savethewhales]

clash cubes 2 ? Head Chef and Exponential Decay both had a flail count in the 40-50 range :P

Well, I know my flail on flail on flail takes noticeably longer the load than any other bot.  It might simply has to do with the exponential amount of calculation it takes when u connect flails on top of flails, and not so much one flail followed by a weapon.

[JoeBlo]

try loading 2 SHW robots in the RW arena with one have 50 Flails haha sloooow

[The Ounce]

I don't really think they are that cheap.  

First, I recently seem to be noticing a rock-paper-scissors effect occurring between different types of weapons:

Static, high-DP weapons (like razors) beat high-DP weapons on flails, this picture being an example (although I don't find it very convincing because I think Genocide is a SHW)

High-DP weapons on flails beat static, high-concussion weapons (like sledgehammers), as shown in this picture

and static, high-concussion weapons, in return, beat static, high-DP weapons.

So, to me, there doesn't seem to be that much of a significant imbalance as long as the type of bot utilizing those types of weapons is well-built, but that's just my crazy theory that I don't really know how to explain :P.  

Second, axle mounts are weak, so certain designs, like my HW, Broadsword, which I built in response to Steel Meatball, and, of course, Blade Barrier, can rip them off easily.  Remember that not one bot type can beat all other bot types, in other words:

Now, repeat after me:

"THERE IS NO PERFECT ROBOT DESIGN."

Say it again.

Third, as for the axle glitching out, if you think about it, the axle wouldn't fly out IRL if it were adequately secured to the socket.  The reason it is not that way in the game is because of RA2's broken physics (obviously).

And finally, axle mounts are capable of causing massive havok explosions because of the moving axle, so bots with flails have a distinct disadvantage, especially in arenas with low walls, like the BBEANS arena.

I can agree on the long loading time for bots with flailed weapons.  It drives me crazy, same with trying to load 36-HS, but that's stock.

[JoeBlo]

dont forgot flails are really havok prone, so why it might amp up your weaponry it increases your risk of loss, look at Scrap Daddy loosing in CC2 against Reier via double havok

[The Ounce]

Oh yeah, how did I forget about that?  I think I'll add that to my post, if you don't mind.

[Pwnator]

dont forgot flails are really havok prone, so why it might amp up your weaponry it increases your risk of loss, look at Scrap Daddy loosing in CC2 against Reier via double havok

And look at Scrap Daddy winning in RAW. :P

[Naryar]

Flails are teh ghey because not only Gearhead can't beat Bane II EVEN if GH deals more than 6000 damage to the razors (would be enough for destroying all of them and this is not a fracture issue), Bane often doesn't even loses ONE SINGLE razor...

...But because of havoks. Even minor ones that ruin one pinning attempt and slightly change the match, or major ones that CLEARLY change the match.

And yes, SM clearly won against Mako 4 because of havoks.

[JoeBlo]

FLAILS DON'T WORK IN REAL LIFE!

Mauler ? :-D

[Somebody]

FLAILS DON'T WORK IN REAL LIFE UNLESS THEY ARE POORLY PUT ON YOUR BOT, THEN COME OFF AND MAKE YOU FAMOUS, WHILE NOT DOING ANY DAMAGE OR BEING COMBAT EFFECTIVE!

happy?

[JoeBlo]

no :biggrin: Mauler was effective... Mauler 51-50 had the flails that broke

[Reier]

Exept Normal razors lose to razors on flails.

[Virus Bomb]

I don't really care about flails. They have their advantages and disadvantages. They might do a lot of damage, but as some posters already stated, they're havok prone and weak against certain bot types.

I believe there was a heavyweight flail vertical spinner that fought in BattleBots, I think it was called Greenspan.

[Scrap Daddy]

GREEENSPAN!!



Anyway, I owe every win I ever had in a DSL tournament to flails. I love them. :D