Stacking outside the chassis

[123savethewhales]

Geee.....  so now NARmour can be all the way outside?  So much for trample damage........

I need to find out how to externalize those flails ASAP.

[JoeBlo]

Geee.....  so now NARmour can be all the way outside?  So much for trample damage........

^^ was exactly what I was thinking ^^


you can make invincible and invisible Armour with Batteries, motors etc


its progression like this that makes be think twice about backlash.. because I fear it will turn into exactly the thing I dont want it for or dislike

[Sparkey98]

I still don't like narmour, RA2 is about having fun and realism, not having to be beter than others :C

Wow cheesy moment

[kill343gs]

^ If that was the case we wouldn't be striving for ultimate efficiency and hosting tourneys.

[JoeBlo]

but where do you draw the line ?


invisible indestructible armor from skirts, batteries, etc is a perfect robot combat simulation due to the fact we are striving for efficiency?


in my opinion I feel this game is becoming less and less robot combat robots and more of those cartoon/ anime fighting robots

[freeziez]

I second...and third...and fourth that motion.

[R0B0SH4RK]

1) I thought we all agreed Narmour was unrealistic and therefore not allowed anyways.

2) @ Joe: the only way to fix that is to get a better engine and build a sequel or an entirely new game. In real life, components on the baseplate (if there is one) aren't indestructible. In real life, pounding on the chassis dosen't reduce a HP value that eventually depletes and you die. In real life, actual physics determines how much damage a bot dishes out, not some bizzarre formula that allows more weaponry to increase damage. In real life, components don't have hitpoints and fly off if they are scraped enough, craftsmanship determines durability. The point is RA2 can NEVER be completely like real-world combat robots like a lot of people would like it to be.

3) Did anybody actually read this idea?

In DSL perhaps a rule of thumb should be that if the component exostacked appears when fighting (like piglets and NPC's) then it should be okay. If it's invisible when fighting, it's not allowed. This allows Mags (like on Mike's new LW) to be used like piglets and NPC's.

[JoeBlo]

I know the game can never be a true sim.. I wasnt born yesterday, if anything I was agreeing with your opinion on rules invisible exo stacking = bad in DSL...


all I said was it seems the only progression people try to make nowadays is making things indestructible by exploiting the base attachable parts..


 

[Somebody]

If we were to allow DSL exostacking, it should only be motors. No batteries, control boards, or other things that are not normally outside the chassis

[123savethewhales]

Exostacking needs to be banned in DSL.  Not only because it's overpowered and unrealistic, but also because you will never know if someone legitimately exostack or just BFE the parts on.

[R0B0SH4RK]

I don't see how exostacking is "overpowered" at all. As for BFE, there's already this problem in Stock and it's a complete non-issue. We can never know if anyone truly stacks anything (like two black batteries), but we allow it because most of us can duplicate the results in the botlab so we take claims of stacking at face value. In this sense, I don't see how exostacking is any different.

[Sage]

I have an idea that would solve everything, but it might be overkill.

If a bot comes into question for BFE, the builder must make a video replicating the results in the bot lab (like we did for venko) or else will be branded a cheat. Baseplate components are invisible, nothing we can do about that.

But this is stock only. If DSL is meant to maintain realism, then exostacking is out.

[123savethewhales]

Exostacking is overpower because you can potentially create NARmour everywhere with batteries, motors, axles, etc.  Basically everything sticking out of the chassis that still counts as directly connected cannot be destroy.  So sticking as much things out as possible will be the optimum strategy.

[Trovaner]

Just like normal stacking, exostacking doesn't work for all components and usually only works with certain placements. Even with an excellent stacking ability, its still not easy (possible?) to make an entire side invincible with stock components (besides the baseplate). Invincible armor has been considered fair for stock in the past so I don't see any reason to change it. DSL is all about realism so NARmour and exostacking should not be considered fair. IRL components that stick out will take damage regardless of what they are connected to but since RA2 makes baseplate components invincible, it needs to be restricted.

[Serge]

The line stands where the botlab ends. Anything made outside of the botlab is cheating. IMVHO.

(but I don't build bots anyway - why should you care?)

[123savethewhales]

Thinking back to 1 year ago when "typhoon flag" was easily declare unrealistic and bannable, how do we even get to the point where NARmour and Exostacking was even considered as a possibility in DSL?

[R0B0SH4RK]

Just a couple of mostly off topic questions 123STW: Where are you from, and is English your second language?

Also, the Typhoon flag was NEVER completely unrealistic and bannable. Its problem was the ability to sink through the arena floor creating potentially "un-outwedgeable" bots (although in my testing this theory didn't stand up at all - the opponent just slid through the non-existant collision mesh and under the bot). Also, it was generally not used because it glitched in online play, making bots equipped with it unable to be selected at all. It only had limited uses as well (a static srimech for SS's) and there are better options around.

Exostacking is overpower because you can potentially create NARmour everywhere with batteries, motors, axles, etc.  Basically everything sticking out of the chassis that still counts as directly connected cannot be destroy.  So sticking as much things out as possible will be the optimum strategy.

We've already established that invisible collision mesh armour isn't kosher, so you're arguing a moot point. I for one think that if motors when exostacked appear in combat, they should be allowed. Just because components are attached to the chassis doesn't mean they don't take damage; baseplate components still take all the damage that non-baseplate components would and in the case of motors, taking damage means decreased functionality and preformance. So, exostacking them becomes a risk/reward excersize, not blatant cheating (like NARmour).

However I don't know which components appear and do not appear on the baseplate in combat, nor do I know if invisible components take damage. Perhaps someone should take a detailed look into this so we can have something definitive to base arguments on.

[123savethewhales]

What's wrong with my English?  Am I typing something you don't understand?  Or am I misinterpreting something?  My guess though is if you believe I misinterpret what others said, it's probably just because I am paranoid and delusional.  I always think a few people will try to bend the rule a little bit at a time until it becomes meaningless.

Invisible component connected to chassis still creates invisible wall.  Already done that during my BFE tour.

Typhoon flag was shouted down for both being a wedge and as stabilizers.  I know since I made the topic.

The "un-outwedgeable" wedge was T-Minus Arm + Metal hinge.  T-Minus Arm has the tendency to sink underground so it makes a perfectly good underground wedge.

The typhoon flag wedge was used to create unconditional wedge locks.  Because when the other person's bot tries to pick it up, then those typhoon flag comes up and locks both bot in place.

[R0B0SH4RK]

I just asked about your English because you have a tendency to forget pluralizations and tenses, which are hallmarks of people who have another language as their first. You're not misinterpreting anything, I was just curious xD

We weren't on the same page with this debate for a bit though. This seems to have corrected itself.

And I read the Typhoon flag thread and other than you (you did say you thought it should be banned) only Naryar condemned it, but only for use as an anti-wedge device. No one shouted it down for stabilizers.

[Badnik96]

IMVHO bots like Mike's, with the motor sticking out, should be allowed. The part is visible in battle, still (sorta) takes damage, and doesn't really make an inpenetrable shield. A popup or wammer could tear it apart pretty easily.

What should be illegalized, though, are things like Narmour, using baseplate parts to create an unbreakable shield.

RW2 will allow exostacking to a point, similar to my BFE rule.