Should we use Serge's Component Freedom hack in DSL?

[FOTEPX]

I was just thinking about it last night, and I wasn't able to come to a definitive conclusion, so I figured we might as well sort it with a poll. What do you guys think?

In case you don't know what the "Component Freedom" hack is, a link can be found here-
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=18939.0

[cephalopod]

Building style rules need to be updated to state component chain limits but otherwise as long as it doesn't break the given rules of any building style in any mod I see it as fair game.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

It's a silly thing to ask. Just allow it and stick to whatever rulest you are building in.

[Naryar]

No, this is important.

-Rule of seven breaker should be allowed in pretty much everything right now. I don't see why would you not allow it (unless some of the bots have been built before rule of seven breaker, however it's not like RO7B can be used to cheat) However, we need to state realism issues for things such as chaining motors. I would say a maximum of 2 chained motors, nothing more.

-Attach anything anywhere mod is much more dramatic. Do we allow it as long as the visual meshes do not overlap, or at least overlap in a DSL-S way ?

Because just so you know : allowing all of component freedom is essentially like allowing BFE in DSL-S, but only if the bot is still DSL-S.

As long as people are well aware of the DSL-S ruleset while building, and hence don't cheat in their respective metagames, it will not be problematic.

Same goes with IRL, really. Although I feel IRL will be easier to include all of component freedom because it's about cool looks first.

[Reier]

ro7b is fine imo and should be allowed

attach stuff anywhere mod though I have severe reservations about using it in standard. IRL it may be ok because it's all about looks but imo it opens up too many scenarios in standard where people are like "oh man i think his motors are clipping!" "no they're not!" etc. just using the actual hitboxes to judge where you can and can't place components is more reliable and less drama bait imo. it's a really cool innovation but i don't know how it could be used in competitive play without being a chore to deal with.
however even if attach anything is not allowed you're still going to have to deal with people using it regardless and entering those bots in tournaments and such, so either way hosts will have to be EXTREMELY diligent from now on to see if the bot was created legally. has this part already been released yet? (i dont have reliable internet right now) It may ready be too late.

[Badger]

I think the "attach anything to anything else" mod is cool. The hax mode part is not.

[09090901]

Any component that is attached to the baseplate is invincible, so I would definitely at least restrict parts that stick out of the chassis.

Attach anything should be fine as long as noobs don't put their batteries on poly extenders. Besides, most components in DSL 2.2 already attach pretty much anywhere.

[Mr. AS]

It should be fine to use for IRL, since IRL isn't a very seriously competitive metagame anyway.

You guys should make up some new term for competitive robots using sergepatcher's bypasses to build. Serge-S or something like that. Get a new ruleset going, kind of like DSL-S.

[FOTEPX]

DSL-SS (DSL-SergeStandard)???

[LiNcK]

ro7b is fine imo and should be allowed

attach stuff anywhere mod though I have severe reservations about using it in standard. IRL it may be ok because it's all about looks but imo it opens up too many scenarios in standard where people are like "oh man i think his motors are clipping!" "no they're not!" etc. just using the actual hitboxes to judge where you can and can't place components is more reliable and less drama bait imo. it's a really cool innovation but i don't know how it could be used in competitive play without being a chore to deal with.
however even if attach anything is not allowed you're still going to have to deal with people using it regardless and entering those bots in tournaments and such, so either way hosts will have to be EXTREMELY diligent from now on to see if the bot was created legally. has this part already been released yet? (i dont have reliable internet right now) It may ready be too late.

I don't think it matters if people argue about whether or not something is clipping. Those things can be solved by uploading a clear picture and worst case scenario you're just lying to yourself since online play isn't a thing and we simply drop a pic or two and everyone goes "looks alright" and we move on. The only real area in which this would have an effect is tournaments and AI packs

IDK how tournaments are run but I was under the impression hosts at least looked at the bots in the botlab to see if the builder pulled some shenanigans such as stacking ants or something. A "visual mesh patdown" should be extremely easy to do and take less than a minute.

I can see how Serge's patcher can be abused in Stock but I think DSL is safe by simply following the already existing rule of visual meshes can't intersect unless poaaible realistically.