New Glitch - Hax Mode

[JoeBlo]

So there, people should figure out the method themselves.

Im trying... and failing

I think im close to getting it to trigger though..

[System32]

nonetheless, People should have a chance to play and discover by themselves, as you had done. Not refer to a guide.

So there, people should figure out the method themselves.

Apples and oranges. A glitch that took three years to actively hunt down isn't the same as trimming 0.3 KG off a bot.
 
Learning what works and using it in your bots is a more personal and artistic thing. Using a glitch to make those bots is a utility thing.
 
Knowing how badly you fail at analogies due to bias, I'm not going to make a crack about you effectively suggesting not using Pause Break in the botlab. Directly.

[123savethewhales]

At least I wasn't the one who also said this.  So much for flip flopping base on your personal interest at the time.

The title says it all really.
Jack Daniels has made the following proposal:

I say, release it to the public and future Stock tournaments can be either:

-Stock abiding by the realistic rule (thus negating the need for any hax)

or

-Stock All In-game Glitches Allowed  (probably ushering in a new era of leet bots that separate the men from the boys (and women from the girls just to include Scourge))

In the event of Hax Mode being made available to the public, I submit we undergo heavy revisions of the non realistic stock mode.
Please post your proposed revisions for tournaments here. I will make a poll on the 4th of july, 2011.

I think I can find a quote of you defending exactly the opposite of everything you said, and I won't even be quoting out of context.

[Urjak]

We are not breaking new grounds, we are not doing anything that isn't possible with BFE.  It is simply a new "method" of doing things.  This is unlike "higgs boson" where you "don't know" what will come out of it.  This is stuff anyone who tap into BFE/game balance know exactly how it will be abused because they already been there and done that.

But clearly BFE hasn't caused the end of stock or DSL. It is possible that stock building may change, but in my opinion it is better to err on the side of openness then to speculate on what could happen, and use said speculation to help ensure this glitch never sees the light of day. 

[Skiitzzox220]

Instead of releasing it maybe they could give us some sort of large hint and let us work from that.

Stupid idea I know

[System32]

Snip

I'm for the death penalty and drug legalisation. OMG FLIP FLOPPING
As I said, apples and oranges.

[Sparkey98]

Instead of releasing it maybe they could give us some sort of large hint and let us work from that.

Stupid idea I know

What difference will it make to the outcome? We have a big search and destroy party for a glitch, then what happens?

[Trovaner]

I don't see any problem with it being released or not.

Though he has many options, I would consider these to be the most probable...

By releasing it to the community:
-He gets to name it. We already have 3 different glitches/hax attributed to Zero Absolute's thread like this and nobody truly knows which one he used.
-We make some rules for stacking (which probably wouldn't be such a bad thing considering AAM and .bot file editing are so hard to trace).
-We would need to make AI packs that are built to these new standards (in the same way Starcore V1 introduced glitches into common practice). It would not ruin stock but would definitely be something to consider when building bots.
-People would no longer need to complain about stacking (since everyone would have the same limitations)

By not releasing it to anyone else: (like Zero Absolute did)
-Life goes on. Another person may find it and start this conversation over again. Then he may chose to release it or not (with the same benefits).
-Nobody would be allowed to use the glitch in tournaments since it would fall under the .bot file editing (unless its an anything goes tourney).

[LiNcK]

stay tuned.

Oh good god save the children.

Lol the children of GTM include Sparkey, Fotepx, GTG, Hard Bot, Ben Purse, Jonzu, etc.  So good luck with that next time you have a conversation with God.

Im 15 too, But yeah... Im more mature I guess :P


@Trovaner: Not releasing also brings the chance of someone finding out about it & Not talking about it... Just using it without telling anyone. (Ofcourse, He wont be able to overdo it or peeps will notice)


If I found out about it myself, I would use it in a few Tourneys, Win 2/3 tourneys & Then be like: LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND 1 DAY AGO! And release it :D

[Skiitzzox220]

Instead of releasing it maybe they could give us some sort of large hint and let us work from that.

Stupid idea I know

What difference will it make to the outcome? We have a big search and destroy party for a glitch, then what happens?

I dunno, I did say it was a stupid idea

[Sage]

invincible battery armor anyone?

[freeziez]

(Image removed from quote.)

invincible battery armor anyone?

:DDDDD

[Trovaner]

@Trovaner: Not releasing also brings the chance of someone finding out about it & Not talking about it... Just using it without telling anyone. (Ofcourse, He wont be able to overdo it or peeps will notice)
If I found out about it myself, I would use it in a few Tourneys, Win 2/3 tourneys & Then be like: LOOK WHAT I JUST FOUND 1 DAY AGO! And release it :D

Since they would be limited to the stacking ability of normal stacking (or get DQ for .bot file editing), it wouldn't be any different than it is now. For example, I could easily .bot file edit a bot that is virtually invisible among the other fair entrants. In fact, we've had a few people already admit to doing this.

[Somebody]

What is really so bad about using Hax Mode to stack two black batteries? I know that there are some computers that are incapable of stacking them (some people with huge trouble, some like Venko). Is it one of those "its the principle of it" type things?

[123savethewhales]

We are not breaking new grounds, we are not doing anything that isn't possible with BFE.  It is simply a new "method" of doing things.  This is unlike "higgs boson" where you "don't know" what will come out of it.  This is stuff anyone who tap into BFE/game balance know exactly how it will be abused because they already been there and done that.

But clearly BFE hasn't caused the end of stock or DSL. It is possible that stock building may change, but in my opinion it is better to err on the side of openness then to speculate on what could happen, and use said speculation to help ensure this glitch never sees the light of day.

Well you are right about that, at the same time BFE didn't really bring anything good on the table either.  No improvement to gaming experience or anything.  It was simply banned.

Now see the thing with BFE is that it actually has a few hidden features that makes it difficult unless you know about them, which I mentioned a few times but is never officially documented.  BFE is also easy to mess up, and make the bot stop working entirely.  So even though it is technically released, most people cannot do more than a few minor adjustments with it.  This can explain why no "kids who registered for 2 weeks and think he's all that" is abusing it.  This glitch however I do not know it's level of difficulties.  It is quite possible that the few bad apples can pull it off and cause a lot of unnecessary dramas.

Again, as long as some potential harm is present, with no perceivable benefit, the only rational decision is to not release.  I mean, what will making things tighter do?  Make HS more powerful relative to popups?  God Mode with exostack?  I just can't see any benefit in it.

[Urjak]

This glitch however I do not know it's level of difficulties.  It is quite possible that the few bad apples can pull it off and cause a lot of unnecessary dramas.

Again, as long as some potential harm is present, with no perceivable benefit, the only rational decision is to not release.  I mean, what will making things tighter do?  Make HS more powerful relative to popups?  God Mode with exostack?  I just can't see any benefit in it.

If there is no real benefit that can be extracted by using the glitch, then exactly what drama are newcomers going to cause? It would be like someone new coming into DSL and stacking all of their components. People will tell them that they are not following the communities standards and they will either change their ways or be shunned. Likewise, if someone did use Hax Mode, the only thing they would get out of it would be a mega stacked bot that would reek of the glitch. We would tell them that competitive stock bots aren't built with the glitch and they will either abandon it or be shunned. The only thing I see changing is that we might have to take a look at how much stacking we consider tolerable (do we draw the line at 4 blacks or 3?), so that we can regulate those who are using the glitch more covertly. I think basic common sense should be enough, though perhaps not. Like I have said, this is just a part of our communities' evolution, same as when BFE and AAM came around. The community makes a decision on regulation and life goes on.


Now I can see a few benefits to this glitch. Most abstractly, the glitch could better our understanding of game mechanics, and through continued testing of it possible lead to even cooler glitches and/or anomalies. I can also see it being useful (depending on how easy it is) for people to stack batteries and such (within the agreed upon limits). I mean if the glitch saves a lot of time, why not use it? In DSL, I can maybe see it being used against components with dodgy meshes (like that accursed 6-mag gearbox). So there are some possible benefits that could come from Hax Mode, and the possible cons don't seem to be severe enough to force the glitch to remain secret.

[Sage]

It's soo much easier to stack blacks normally than to use this glitch.

[123savethewhales]

This glitch however I do not know it's level of difficulties.  It is quite possible that the few bad apples can pull it off and cause a lot of unnecessary dramas.

Again, as long as some potential harm is present, with no perceivable benefit, the only rational decision is to not release.  I mean, what will making things tighter do?  Make HS more powerful relative to popups?  God Mode with exostack?  I just can't see any benefit in it.

If there is no real benefit that can be extracted by using the glitch, then exactly what drama are newcomers going to cause? It would be like someone new coming into DSL and stacking all of their components. People will tell them that they are not following the communities standards and they will either change their ways or be shunned. Likewise, if someone did use Hax Mode, the only thing they would get out of it would be a mega stacked bot that would reek of the glitch. We would tell them that competitive stock bots aren't built with the glitch and they will either abandon it or be shunned. The only thing I see changing is that we might have to take a look at how much stacking we consider tolerable (do we draw the line at 4 blacks or 3?), so that we can regulate those who are using the glitch more covertly. I think basic common sense should be enough, though perhaps not. Like I have said, this is just a part of our communities' evolution, same as when BFE and AAM came around. The community makes a decision on regulation and life goes on.

When I said benefit, I am specifically talking about the balance of the game.  Certain God Mode does something, but you cease to have a playable game with that.  After everything that needs to be banned gets banned, you really don't have anything left besides maybe increase the tolerance of stack, which we can agree on.

Now I can see a few benefits to this glitch. Most abstractly, the glitch could better our understanding of game mechanics, and through continued testing of it possible lead to even cooler glitches and/or anomalies. I can also see it being useful (depending on how easy it is) for people to stack batteries and such (within the agreed upon limits). I mean if the glitch saves a lot of time, why not use it? In DSL, I can maybe see it being used against components with dodgy meshes (like that accursed 6-mag gearbox). So there are some possible benefits that could come from Hax Mode, and the possible cons don't seem to be severe enough to force the glitch to remain secret.

Like BFE, if you try to make specific things legal with it and other things not, you are going to end up with pages and pages of rulebooks with so much personal opinions that noone would follow them.

See the "nothing outside the bot lab" rule?  It's there because it's simple.  The cat is put back into the bag and that's that.  It's not really because BFE 2 black batteries is so game breaking per say.  It's just that trying to list every single thing you can/cannot do with it lacks both creditability and objectivity.  Are you going to have a vote on every single stack-able part and it's quantity?  Even if you did do that.  Why should any newcomer have to read through a whole book of house-rules just so a few people can stack one more black then currently possible?  House rules should be simple and improve the gaming experience for almost everyone.  I am almost certain that "Hax Mode Banned" will be voted for once released.

The only possible benefit is "everyone pretend like it's banned but secretly use it to save time".  Again I don't actually have problems with that, but you can already do that with BFE.  If you can't already save time BFE, but expect to do so with this glitch, then clearly that shows the intrinsic difference in their difficulties, and why this will be more abuse-able for the "bad apples".

Now sage also continuously emphasize that this is "not easier" than normally stacking.  Which means that both "save time" and "bad apple" abuse doesn't hold.  But again I just don't have any evidence to believe that from the videos he provided.  Personally though I do believe that it will be easier for me to BFE than to glitch anything, since I know something about BFE that let's me mass copy/paste.

[System32]

It's soo much easier to stack blacks normally than to use this glitch.

Not really at all, as far as I can tell. Axle loading? Half a minute for me. Stacking? Only done it twice, after an hour. This might become a placebo for those who find such stacking difficult.

[TriTon]

It's soo much easier to stack blacks normally than to use this glitch.

Some of us find axle and snapper loading far easier than stacking.