New Glitch - Hax Mode

[Urjak]

123STW is aboslutely right, there is no good reason to keep secret. If I ever discover how to do Hax Mode I would release it in a heartbeat. If stock crumbles as a result then so be it, at least we don't have a bunch of "elite" deciding what is and isn't good for the rest of the stock builders.

The key here is that only when the glitch is released will we have any idea what the effects will be. Glitches that have more potential than Hax, such as BFE and AAM, haven't ruined stock and yet they are not all that hard to learn (someone even posted a BFE guide a while back). Thus there is no reason to believe that revealing how Hax Mode works will harm or even change Stock in any way.

[R0B0SH4RK]

@ S32:
OR you could have mentioned ACAMS's arguments that releasing this glitch would make BFE/AAM absolutely impossible to check for. Hence, it would be possible for people to blatantly cheat, and we'd never know the difference between hax mode and what we have long considered illegaly built robots.

By the way, why is elitism so bad? They put in the time and effort and brainpower to figure it out, not you. They're entitled to do with their knowledge what they see fit. If Sage and Scrap don't release the methods of how to do it, as long as they don't use it themselves, their discovery has absolutely no effect on us whatsoever.

Why , I have been able to do that for years......but it is cheating because you have to edit the files.




That is the goose hax.

^ Why did NOBODY acknowledge this quote? I'm curious about this now, please explain.


@ Sage:
I didn't doubt you before, but to tell you the truth, the second video made me pretty skeptical. How can you activate a process that is from what I understand similar to snapper loading through a voice command? To me, it looks like you've just written a script or program that is similar in nature to NC's movepixel tool, which has allowed you to "activate" Hax mode. In other words, I don't think it's legit. And until I see convincing evidence otherwise (i.e. you show me how to do it), I don't think I can trust you guys on this one. Sorry, man 

[123savethewhales]

123STW   is aboslutely right, there is no good reason to keep secret. If I ever   discover how to do Hax Mode I would release it in a heartbeat. If stock   crumbles as a result then so be it, at least we don't have a bunch of   "elite" deciding what is and isn't good for the rest of the stock   builders.

The key here is that only when the glitch is released   will we have any idea what the effects will be. Glitches that have more   potential than Hax, such as BFE and AAM, haven't ruined stock and yet   they are not all that hard to learn (someone even posted a BFE guide a   while back). Thus there is no reason to believe that revealing how Hax   Mode works will harm or even change Stock in any way.

Well, I won't go that far.  I will say that if his reason is solely to keep it to himself and his close group, he may do so because he did discover it.

People have the right to be selfish with the things they discover, which is fine if the person is willing to admit to that.  It's just all the other stuff about ruining the community or for the better of us all that I have problems with.

[Mr. AS]

Just ban the glitch in tournaments and having "all stock building crumble" won't be a problem.

[Urjak]

@ S32:
OR you could have mentioned ACAMS's arguments that releasing this glitch would make BFE/AAM absolutely impossible to check for. Hence, it would be possible for people to blatantly cheat, and we'd never know the difference between hax mode and what we have long considered illegaly built robots.

This makes zero sense. Unless there is a tournament that allows BFE and not Hax Mode, or Hax Mode and not BFE, then there is no complication. We use common sense to screen out BFE, and we can do the same for Hax mode. If there was a tournament where one was legal and not the other (namely Hax mode allowed, BFE not), then all you have to do is look out for bots that have traits that can't be achieved via Hax Mode (such as an incredibly small chassis or random floating components).

Well, I won't go that far.  I will say that if his reason is solely to keep it to himself and his close group, he may do so because he did discover it.

People have the right to be selfish with the things they discover, which is fine if the person is willing to admit to that.  It's just all the other stuff about ruining the community or for the better of us all that I have problems with.

I think you misunderstand me. I was saying that people who know the glitch have no grounds to say that its disclosure would ruin stock, as this would have them acting as if they know what is best for the rest of us. I fully believe that Sage and Scrap have no obligation to reveal the glitch.

[123savethewhales]

@ S32:
OR you could have mentioned ACAMS's arguments that releasing this glitch would make BFE/AAM absolutely impossible to check for. Hence, it would be possible for people to blatantly cheat, and we'd never know the difference between hax mode and what we have long considered illegaly built robots.

This makes zero sense. Unless there is a tournament that allows BFE and not Hax Mode, or Hax Mode and not BFE, then there is no complication. We use common sense to screen out BFE, and we can do the same for Hax mode. If there was a tournament where one was legal and not the other (namely Hax mode allowed, BFE not), then all you have to do is look out for bots that have traits that can't be achieved via Hax Mode (such as an incredibly small chassis or random floating components).

I don't know, judging by the video Sage just voice command the part to no collision, it almost seem easier than BFE.

So then nobody will bother using BFE if you can do that.

[Urjak]

So then nobody will bother using BFE if you can do that.

And then what? We just ban Hax Mode and we will be fine.

[123savethewhales]

Well yeah.  I am just saying HAX mode bringing in BFE wouldn't even be a problem because voice commanding parts to no collision is easier than typing things in.

I mean, who cares about BFE if you are allowing HAX mode to begin with?  Why do you even need to distinguish a legit HAX mode bot from a BFE one that can be build using HAX mode?  Because BFE is easier?  Well not according to this video.  It's like, who's going to bother using AAM when you can BFE?

Now maybe Sage actually need to stuff up on tinctures and spend a lot of Mana point casting a spell on his machine.  Again, all we see is voice command and going from not stackable to stackable in an instant.  So we have to assume it's easy once activated.

[123savethewhales]

By the way, why is elitism so bad?

Foul language removed

While that is a legitimate question, it does however hold no truth whatsoever on GTM.  Vast majority of the GTM population does show that they can "not cheat".  Take DSL for example, the only people who ever try to push through the realistic rules are first time n00bs or the "respectable" competitive players (ex.  Naryar with Narmour, me trying to push for hollow motor).  Nobody else has any problem building non questionable things.

So I will say elitism in this context is bad because it does not match empirical evidence, making it nothing more than prejudices.

Elitism is a bad thing like baby raping and racism is a bad thing.

I for one think baby raping is a lot worst than both elitism and racism combine.

[Clickbeetle]

Why has this glitch blown up into an 18-page argument?  I don't get it.


You want the glitch released?  Why?  It will be banned in tournaments anyway.  If you only want to mess around with it non-competitively, you can use BFE or AAM just as easily.  This glitch does NOTHING NEW.  It just does it in a DIFFERENT WAY.  In fact, if I'm reading it right, it's actually less powerful than BFE or AAM.


Are Sage and Scrap just trolling us?  I don't think so, but for the sake of argument, suppose they are.  Now ask yourself: so what?  What's the big deal?  It only matters whether Hax Mode is real or not if you really want to know how to do it.  And if you really want to know how to do it, see the previous paragraph.


Honestly, when I first saw this, I was impressed that such a thing was possible, but I didn't think it could be that big of a deal.  It's too powerful to ever be accepted as a legal glitch, which basically makes it another alternative to BFE and AAM.


Keep the glitch hidden, or release it, it doesn't matter to me and I don't see why it should matter to anyone else.


Edit: If this argument spirals much further down the toilet it will be in danger of facing the lockhammer... right now it's still within the realm of reason but I can see some of System32's posts in particular pushing it over the edge.  Tone it down please.

[123savethewhales]

Curiosity kills a cat, even Schrodinger's cat isn't safe from that.

I mean, if they pull a "I gonna give you a sneak peek at our new trick but I won't show you", of course they are going to attract attention.

If they don't want the attention, then why give a public sneak peek?  They could have really kept it to themselves by not making TLT.

[Sage]

Click, it's not the same thing as BFE because it's done in-game. But I don't see why people are making such a huge deal either! We posted it to show a new discovery in RA2, and people just got upset that we wouldn't tell them how to do it. R0B0, sorry you don't trust me.

[123savethewhales]

If nobody is curious then you will have a thread with 0 replies and you won't get the attention you want out of this.  Now that you got their attention with you sneak peak, you expect people to just stop being curious?  Surely you don't expect to dangle a mice in front of a cat and take it away just when it pounces at it, without getting scratched.

Edit:  For future reference, this is how cats response to things they are curious about.
http://nyan.cat/

[Fracture]

Click, it's not the same thing as BFE because it's done in-game.

True, but the final result is (almost) the same as BFE, and I think we should judge these kinds of things on what they do rather than how to do them. I'm really just seeing this as a branch off of BFE, a bit less potent and done in a different way. Anything having to do with it pretty much also has to do with BFE...if it's legalized in tourneys, so is BFE bar components outside the chassis and whatnot, because no one can tell the difference between the two methods. If BFE is banned right now, then so should Hax Mode if released, at least in regular tourneys.

I'm just surprised that it's only now that everyone is planning these "Super-Stacked" tournaments when those competitions could be easily done using BFE instead (again, without components outside the chassis).

I feel like if this is released it'll be like some newbie says they've discovered a new glitch and it turns out they've just re-released BFE to the public.

[LiNcK]

Honestly I think they should release it & THen get it banned from Tournaments.
That way you KNOW that everybody knows the glitch & That nobody is allowed to use it, If someone else discovers it & Uses it discreetly (Not stacking the things THAT much) they will have an advantage over other people.

If its release, Everybody knows it & Knows that its banned, You can also identify it correctly... Because honestly, If UDK how to do the glitch & You see something stacked just a bit more than usual you wont be like: OH! ITS SAGE & SCRAPS GLITCH!!! :OOO


Im just saying that it doesnt necessarily have to ruin RA2, Its like not doing Atomic Research because making Atomic Bombs is bad... Youre not only making Atomic bombs, What about the Power Plants & Other useful things? A law on prohibing atomic bomb use is enough to contain the problem.

[R0B0SH4RK]

@ Sage: Nothing to do with a fundamental trust thing, just skepticism. Nothing personal, just business y'know.

@ S32:
OR you could have mentioned ACAMS's arguments that releasing this glitch would make BFE/AAM absolutely impossible to check for. Hence, it would be possible for people to blatantly cheat, and we'd never know the difference between hax mode and what we have long considered illegaly built robots.

This makes zero sense. Unless there is a tournament that allows BFE and not Hax Mode, or Hax Mode and not BFE, then there is no complication. We use common sense to screen out BFE, and we can do the same for Hax mode. If there was a tournament where one was legal and not the other (namely Hax mode allowed, BFE not), then all you have to do is look out for bots that have traits that can't be achieved via Hax Mode (such as an incredibly small chassis or random floating components).

But it's entirely possible that someone could make a bot with a normal sized chassis and not-floating components that looks like they used hax mode, but they used BFE to do it. Hell, that's what I'd do if I were so inclined (and knew how to BFE). So, common sense should consequently tell you "I have no idea whether this bot was built using BFE of Hax mode." This point should make a lot of sense if you're understanding what I'm writing. But hey, we're on the internet. Misunderstandings are easy :3


@ S32: I could be nasty and yell and swear and fling insults right back at you, but I won't. It's pointless. Waste of both of our times.

The whole point is to keep things away from people to spite them.

If this is what you believe is happening right now, than you're far more cynical then I've ever given you credit for. The "social circle" you're currently referring to consists of the two people who figured the glitch out, no more. I don't consider that much of a "social circle" at all. And as far as I can tell, Sage and Scrap are spiting no one, especially not you. If they started distributing it to select members, encouraging its use in tourneys, and then making a huge deal out of it then yes, I can see where you're coming from, but right now it's still at the "hey guys lookie what we just found out! Ain't that cool??" stage. "What's f*cking happening right now" isn't keeping Hax mode a secret to spite members, "what's happening right now" isn't "purely disgusting," "what's happening right now" is a bunch of guys trying to decide where we go from here, and ultimately, Scrap and Sage are entitled to do as they please with their discovery. They can release it to the public, or they can lock it away and make sure it never sees the light of day again.

I will throw in one caveat though: if they choose to keep the secret and either of them enters a bot into a tourney that has used this glitch (if it is actually a glitch), then EVERYBODY has the right to the knowledge because at this point, it stops becoming something cool that they found and starts becoming priveleged information. At this point, you can start screaming "elitist!" and I'll be right there beside you. But now is not the time to be angry, or even really care. It doesn't effect either of us or anyone on this forum.

I'm in a class where by default all forms of elitism used at large are there to put me and everyone I know personally down.

Well, it's a damn good thing that we're all just pixels on each others computer screens, otherwise socio-economic classes might actually matter here. Point is, don't sweat this one man. Just relax and see where this goes from here :)
 
 
 
 
EDIT: Holy crap LiNcK, that made a lot of sense.




Foul language removed....user warned

[090901]

welllll
even if it was banned from tourneys, people could still use it to stack blacks and cb in blacks

[123savethewhales]

I vote that LiNck is the only person that made complete sense here at this point.

[Urjak]

But it's entirely possible that someone could make a bot with a normal sized chassis and not-floating components that looks like they used hax mode, but they used BFE to do it. Hell, that's what I'd do if I were so inclined (and knew how to BFE). So, common sense should consequently tell you "I have no idea whether this bot was built using BFE of Hax mode." This point should make a lot of sense if you're understanding what I'm writing. But hey, we're on the internet. Misunderstandings are easy :3

I am not saying they are easy to tell apart, I am saying that all we have to do is outlaw both Hax Mode and BFE and the whole problem goes away. I can't think of a situation where being able to tell the difference between the two of them would be of much importance.

[Meganerdbomb]

I'm with S32 on this. The arguments against releasing this DO smack of elitism. There was talk at one point of releasing this to Click and Trov and no one else, which would be straight up elitism. All the same, sombody else WILL figure this out eventually, and I hope it's Garvin, Sparkles, or FAPTEX. We could call it the Garv Glitch, Sparkle Stacking and FAP mode respectively.

Also, if it's released, I think it SHOULD be considered legal. Rather than being the death of stock, it might help keep it from stagnating a little longer. Sure I can see the problem with Hax mode being indistinguishable from BFE, but if they don't accomplish anything by BFE that they couldn't without the glitch what's the big deal? I happen to hate trying to stack black batteries. I find it harder than axle loading and the eFFe glitch for some reason. If I used BFE to stack two blacks in my bot, and entered it in a tournament, nobody would know, and if they did, would they care?