gametechmods

Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: Mystic2000 on June 05, 2018, 02:33:52 AM

Title: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Mystic2000 on June 05, 2018, 02:33:52 AM
this is something that has been kinda always annoying me when i build IRL is that spinners in this game feel really weak next to their real life counterparts, for instance, when Tombstone hits a bot half of the time said bot is launched a fair distance across the arena, in RA2 ? you're lucky if the mother****er even moved when your HS hits it, VS is the same type of deal, you've seen Witch Doctor pop Rotator in the air in it's first fight in season 2, you saw Touro Maximus ****ing hurl Whoops against the lexan at Robogames, that barely ever happens in RA2 and usually it's only with stupidly over the top weapon systems that take 70% of the weight, most of the time driscs like Magnetar that irl can hurl bots in the air just slowly gutrips people because the motors are too piss weak to make them hit hard enough, the only time i managed to have an HS that hit as hard as real life bots like Megabyte or Icewave do was a MW HS with a ****ing 6-mag powered moros bar, and it looked like sh** cause i had to spend half of the weight in a weapon system with actual force behind it.

so i think one of the fixes that'd help make IRL more exciting and closer to real life would be buffing every single weapon motor in the game, yes even 6-mag/Dual perm, that wouldn't help with people making weapon spam deathspinners, but at least it'd make spinners feel powerful like they do in real life
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: kix on June 05, 2018, 02:46:43 AM
Good plan, but flaw that i see is that speed after 400 makes motors unstable. Also what ive noticed, is that components are too light to make bots move. Minimum component weight for doing that would be 40kg
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Badger on June 05, 2018, 02:47:12 AM
I've talked about this before, mainly on the discord, and in general I think you're right. The issue with just beefing up the motors, however, is that you start running the risk of the physics engine just freaking out (especially for bursts). Another solution would be to make bots lighter, like how Ironforge does it, but again that runs the risk of making the engine freak out due to lack of sufficient weight on a powerful motor. That being said, Ironforge has half-weight bots with very powerful motors and it doesn't seem to have this issue in general, or not to an extent that it's an issue. Maybe you can fiddle around with putting all the motor's weight in the axle, which seems to make it more stable, but that kinda modding is out of my ability range right now.

I also think it's worth looking into making motors smaller (yet another thing that Ironforge got right). It's incredibly hard to get a powerful motor in a bot without it looking like ass or using a very space-lenient bottype like a FBS.
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Mystic2000 on June 05, 2018, 02:51:04 AM
only thing that's in my ability right now is txt file editing so guess i can **** around with that, i was thinking of getting flat motor out of cheat bot and have a special heavier version of the piglet, buff both of them a ton, give them really low HP and make them basically brushless motors, so you can have small and strong motors at the expense of their durability
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 05, 2018, 07:45:17 AM
I've talked about this before, mainly on the discord, and in general I think you're right. The issue with just beefing up the motors, however, is that you start running the risk of the physics engine just freaking out (especially for bursts). Another solution would be to make bots lighter, like how Ironforge does it, but again that runs the risk of making the engine freak out due to lack of sufficient weight on a powerful motor. That being said, Ironforge has half-weight bots with very powerful motors and it doesn't seem to have this issue in general, or not to an extent that it's an issue. Maybe you can fiddle around with putting all the motor's weight in the axle, which seems to make it more stable, but that kinda modding is out of my ability range right now.

I also think it's worth looking into making motors smaller (yet another thing that Ironforge got right). It's incredibly hard to get a powerful motor in a bot without it looking like ass or using a very space-lenient bottype like a FBS.

I think bursts are fine. But I can’t build an effective tombklone with these wimp motors!

Edit: sizes are fine. I manage to fit 2 drive eteks and 1 perm 132, and still have space for batteries in my bots. Make your chassis bigger!
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: 090901 on June 05, 2018, 09:28:22 AM
all you really can do is increase the maxspeed of motors, because if you jack up the power then they become super powerful drive motors and people will just use them for drive instead
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Badger on June 05, 2018, 09:43:52 AM
all you really can do is increase the maxspeed of motors, because if you jack up the power then they become super powerful drive motors and people will just use them for drive instead
State mandated motor segregation. You could say 'separate but equal'. No using drive motors for weapons and vice versa

This has the bonus effect of literally banning piglet drive.
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: F1Krazy on June 05, 2018, 02:39:12 PM
I think RWRA2 actually did this. There was a weapon motor that was both tiny and extremely overpowered, so with a good enough weapon you could punt opponents across (or even out of) the arena, like in real life. Of course, you also get the recoil/gyro like in real life, and at high enough speeds your bot will just start shaking and fly off uncontrollably.
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Mystic2000 on June 05, 2018, 02:57:02 PM
yeah RWRA2 actually had powerful enough motors to get IRL levels of power, problem is that RWRA2 is awful for building lol
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: 8bean on June 05, 2018, 02:58:43 PM
I think RWRA2 actually did this. There was a weapon motor that was both tiny and extremely overpowered, so with a good enough weapon you could punt opponents across (or even out of) the arena, like in real life. Of course, you also get the recoil/gyro like in real life, and at high enough speeds your bot will just start shaking and fly off uncontrollably.

I'm pretty sure the Last Rites replica had this. I just feel like something this small and powerful would just end up being used by every spinner in the field and render all other bot types near useless despite the insane gyro effect.
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Reier on June 05, 2018, 02:59:31 PM
I think RWRA2 actually did this. There was a weapon motor that was both tiny and extremely overpowered, so with a good enough weapon you could punt opponents across (or even out of) the arena, like in real life. Of course, you also get the recoil/gyro like in real life, and at high enough speeds your bot will just start shaking and fly off uncontrollably.

I'm pretty sure the Last Rites replica had this. I just feel like something this small and powerful would just end up being used by every spinner in the field and render all other bot types near useless despite the insane gyro effect.

its almost like ra2 isnt optimized for competitive irl building
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Gulden on June 05, 2018, 03:44:56 PM
MOE motor is the most accurate thing in DSL tbh
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: 09090901 on June 05, 2018, 03:52:48 PM
I agree that spin motors are terrible for their weight (outside of the flatmotor), but you're probably also gonna want to buff HP across the board for most things so things don't instantly disintegrate on impact.
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Virus Bomb on June 05, 2018, 10:12:24 PM
main reason why i damn near refuse to use anything less than a moe motor/dual perm on hw hses
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: pokebro14 on June 06, 2018, 02:52:48 AM
While Iam in favour of making the motors more realistic in power I feel like this would need some trials and testing to see how this could be abused and how it could change the meta 
Title: Re: DSL weapon motors feel terribly weak next to real life
Post by: Badger on June 06, 2018, 11:23:45 AM
I made a simple python script that doubles the power of every motor in the game, except spin motors. Burst motors are barely affected, as I think the 'burst' attribute effects their power more than the actual 'power' attribute. In my very brief testing, it seems that this mod can make a lot of weapon setups unstable and pull the axle out of its socket. The increased torque also makes HS more mauler-prone. While it does feel a bit more beefy than before, I think we would need an across-the-board weight reduction to further increase perceived kinetic transfer, as well as transferring all motor weight into the axle to reduce havoks and prevent the axle becoming unstable.

I encourage people to try this out and give feedback, so we get some more opinions on what we should do going forward


Download:
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Install instructions:
Place the above .py file into the root directory of your RA2 install (same location as Robot Arena 2.exe) and double click to install. Requires Python to be installed on your system. The install may take a short while to complete and progress may seem to pause on the duel etek for a while. Just give it a couple minutes to finish. It will display the number of components edited when it has finished.

To uninstall, edit the file and change the line at the top reading 'reverse = False' to 'reverse = True'. This will reverse the effects of the mod

This mod will also unintentionally double the power of skinned/custom drive motors. Please be aware of this.