DSL IRL Building Guideline Suggestions

[Naryar]

Really? You guys need rules for something completely subjective?

we're trying to make it objective.

[Scorpion]

Really? You guys need rules for something completely subjective?

we're trying to make it objective.

Is aesthetics not the main goal of making an IRL bot?

[NFX]

In my view, yes it is. However, there are still a few who will enter a substandard DSL bot in an effort to chalk up a free tournament win to their name. Plus, giving the tournament host the ability to decide which bots fit the realistic rule will cause problems with members whose views on IRL don't match, similar to Pretyor in Jonzu's recent Stock Tournament. Personally, Metal Hinges and Halfsheets on the underside aren't IRL, and neither are exposed motors or axles without sufficient extender "supports" around them.

[LiNcK]

(Image removed from quote.)

The thing is, I can add 2 hammers on each side & Maybe it will still be considered realistic.
The bot with 2 hammers will probz murder that bot up there...


There should be IRL rules so you actually build the best IRL bot you can & Not the worst DSL bot you can :P

Really? You guys need rules for something completely subjective?

we're trying to make it objective.

Is aesthetics not the main goal of making an IRL bot?

 


Maybe it is, But tournaments are still fighting tournaments so technically it isnt. If the most aesthetically pleasing bot looses against another bot, That other bot is the better IRL bot :P

[Unreal]

Well I have been told I make 'IRL' bots. When I started playing Robot Arena and downloaded the DSL I just built bots I thought would be good on Robot Wars etc. Its not an intentional thing its just a preference. I don't see the creativity in building something with 19 hammers and 75 ant batteries stacked on top of each other in a case 2.5 inches square, with 200kg Perm motors on 100 cm extenders. For me the real challenge is building a bot as realistically as you can, and trying to make the best bot you can, as realistically as you can.


Everyone can do what they like, I just think there is room for truely realistic (as much as the game allows) robot building as well as DSL realism and other styles. I just wish there were more realistic bots in the game that's my only gripe.


I am seriously considering only building MW/LW robots as they seem to me to be the closest to what a heavyweight bot would be capable of in robot wars.


In any case, I now hold myself to the following realism rules when building a bot:


1. All motors must be either inside or directly connected to the chassis or case of the robot.
2. No stacking or cheat building.
3. I also think sticking to MW maximum weight is a good idea, as it makes people build around a primary weapon which is usually what happens in real life. So for example if you want a REALLY powerful axe, or speed, you have to have only one, and might have to sacrifice performance in other areas so I think I will stick to that.


Rant over :)

[LiNcK]

1. All motors must be either inside or directly connected to the chassis or case of the robot.
2. No stacking or cheat building.
3. I also think sticking to MW maximum weight is a good idea, as it makes people build around a primary weapon which is usually what happens in real life. So for example if you want a REALLY powerful axe, or speed, you have to have only one, and might have to sacrifice performance in other areas so I think I will stick to that.

Arent those DSL rules really? I mean,
1. Most people already put their drive inside the chassis, There are a few exceptions but most bots have the drives on the chassis :P
2. Stacking is not allowed in DSL, And IDK what you mean by cheat building, But in DSL cheatbot2 parts arent allowed & Stuff.
3. You mean that the max weight should be MW? Seems good, But then there would be no HW fights :P


I personally think it would be better if we rebalanced the weapons for IRL building. Something like DSL3 is doing right now, Boost the heavy weapons' stats so they are more used.
Nerf down razor tips & Other small weapons, They should be used as backup weapons (In the back/side orso) & Not the main weapon.
The main weapon should be 1/2 axes, 1/2 maces & Such things... A DSL bar equivalent (It should do damage though) and THEN you have a few spikes on the chassis as backup.


Just make the heavy weapons very powerful & The smaller ones very weak. What happens when a hammer hits a small spike? The spike breaks.
It would be better to put 1 hammer than 20 spikes on your bot then :3

[Jack Daniels]

Winning is also subjective to some as well.

I feel like a winner when I build a bot that fails at a tournament but people compliment how awesome it looks.   ;D

Different strokes for different folks.

"Here the cheat... have a trophy."

[Unreal]

1. All motors must be either inside or directly connected to the chassis or case of the robot.
2. No stacking or cheat building.
3. I also think sticking to MW maximum weight is a good idea, as it makes people build around a primary weapon which is usually what happens in real life. So for example if you want a REALLY powerful axe, or speed, you have to have only one, and might have to sacrifice performance in other areas so I think I will stick to that.

Arent those DSL rules really? I mean,
1. Most people already put their drive inside the chassis, There are a few exceptions but most bots have the drives on the chassis :P
2. Stacking is not allowed in DSL, And IDK what you mean by cheat building, But in DSL cheatbot2 parts arent allowed & Stuff.
3. You mean that the max weight should be MW? Seems good, But then there would be no HW fights :P


I personally think it would be better if we rebalanced the weapons for IRL building. Something like DSL3 is doing right now, Boost the heavy weapons' stats so they are more used.
Nerf down razor tips & Other small weapons, They should be used as backup weapons (In the back/side orso) & Not the main weapon.
The main weapon should be 1/2 axes, 1/2 maces & Such things... A DSL bar equivalent (It should do damage though) and THEN you have a few spikes on the chassis as backup.


Just make the heavy weapons very powerful & The smaller ones very weak. What happens when a hammer hits a small spike? The spike breaks.
It would be better to put 1 hammer than 20 spikes on your bot then :3

I just think the overall balance of combat in the game isn't quite right, and I think it stems A from the combat mechanics and B from how the bots are built. I agree that some weapons cause more damage than they should, for example the panic attack lifting arms don't really apply much force at all, yet if they just glance your bot slightly they cause alot of damage, same goes for iron spikes such as critical emergency. There are also some bots that just do not take damage. For example I put Firestorm in the crushers in the compressor arena, was in there for a good two minutes but suffered no damage, and its shell wasn't even bent at all. That sort of thing needs to be addressed. Most of the replica bots actually seem to be the most balanced though. If the rest were modified to behave more like the replicas then we may be on to a winner.


Also the spinner bots are probably the RA equivalent of people who spend all game camping in UT. If everyone built them this game would be dead. Probably should ban them or have only a couple and no more. I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to build them and showcase them, but probably not good as AI bots.

[Tweedy]

it didn't bend because the whole of firestorms shell is made of components and they don't bend they simply fall off

[Unreal]

They didn't fall off either. Which is same bad.

[MikeNCR]

I've been seeing a fair bit of discussion about whether or not a particular battery setup is IRL and thought this would be the place to weigh in on it-

In Nyx, I use a 1lb battery to power 3 fairly powerful motors in a 30lb robot, though one is intermittent use.

that works out to 3.333% of the weight of the robot being battery. In the case of a RA2 LW, that means roughly 8.33lbs should be battery for an equivalent drive/weapon system, which in the case of Nyx, has enough battery for two full matches before needing a recharge while using the equivalent of 1.3 ants for the whole system.

In the case of Moros, I use ~2lbs of batteries, so 16.5lbs for two drive motors and 1 weapon motor, however in this case as well, I have far more battery than I need in Moros, but even then, it would still only use the equivalent of 2.5 ants for three motors.

Real world battery technology has blown right by the "capacity" ratings in DSL, and I think if you  really want to set hard "capacity" rules, it should be more weight percentage based than number of cell based. If a real world robot is using more than about 5% of their weight for batteries most of the time they've either got an insane weapon system or old battery technology.

[123savethewhales]

What about the size?  Does batteries in a modern HW bot takes the battery space of about 4 ants in DSL?

I think chassis size, not weight, is the biggest problem between a real bot and a dsl 1x1.5 chassis bot.

[SKBT]

Adding to this... In Phoenix, I'm running a battery about 1/2 the capability and weight of Nyx's, and I get about 2 fights out of it, and it's roughly the size of a deck of cards.

[123savethewhales]

Humm maybe the solution is to significantly increase the hitpoints for chassis armor while decreasing the HP of motors, so ppl have incentive to actually keep them inside the chassis.

Also maybe converting all weapons into concussion, which will block off bot types like "SnS" and "Popups".  Damage will be much more momentum based like in real robot combats, not thousands of little spikes scrapping the target.

What do you guys think?  Would you guys like a mod like that?

[Tweedy]

I would love a mod like this so it would give a more IRL feel to the game and also I think mike and skbt are right because the weight of batteries in modern roboreams quite low now because of new technologies and better mechanics

[NFX]

Humm maybe the solution is to significantly increase the hitpoints for chassis armor while decreasing the HP of motors, so ppl have incentive to actually keep them inside the chassis.

Also maybe converting all weapons into concussion, which will block off bot types like "SnS" and "Popups".  Damage will be much more momentum based like in real robot combats, not thousands of little spikes scrapping the target.

What do you guys think?  Would you guys like a mod like that?

Sounds pretty good to me. If it were possible to do something about the "lots of weapons at the same time do more damage than one" thing that RA2 does, that would also be fantastic, but since it's part of the .exe, it's just a pipedream for now.

[123savethewhales]

Humm maybe the solution is to significantly increase the hitpoints for chassis armor while decreasing the HP of motors, so ppl have incentive to actually keep them inside the chassis.

Also maybe converting all weapons into concussion, which will block off bot types like "SnS" and "Popups".  Damage will be much more momentum based like in real robot combats, not thousands of little spikes scrapping the target.

What do you guys think?  Would you guys like a mod like that?

Sounds pretty good to me. If it were possible to do something about the "lots of weapons at the same time do more damage than one" thing that RA2 does, that would also be fantastic, but since it's part of the .exe, it's just a pipedream for now.

Should just ban weapon stacking.....  You can still line them accross sure, but you are not going to have 7 razor tips in a tiny stack.  Not like popups or flail SnS would work to begin with when all damage are concussion.

[Mr. AS]

Humm maybe the solution is to significantly increase the hitpoints for chassis armor while decreasing the HP of motors, so ppl have incentive to actually keep them inside the chassis.

Also maybe converting all weapons into concussion, which will block off bot types like "SnS" and "Popups".  Damage will be much more momentum based like in real robot combats, not thousands of little spikes scrapping the target.

What do you guys think?  Would you guys like a mod like that?

Sounds pretty good to me. If it were possible to do something about the "lots of weapons at the same time do more damage than one" thing that RA2 does, that would also be fantastic, but since it's part of the .exe, it's just a pipedream for now.

Should just ban weapon stacking.....

but thatll just bring up the "olol weld rule" excuse

[123savethewhales]

Humm maybe the solution is to significantly increase the hitpoints for chassis armor while decreasing the HP of motors, so ppl have incentive to actually keep them inside the chassis.

Also maybe converting all weapons into concussion, which will block off bot types like "SnS" and "Popups".  Damage will be much more momentum based like in real robot combats, not thousands of little spikes scrapping the target.

What do you guys think?  Would you guys like a mod like that?

Sounds pretty good to me. If it were possible to do something about the "lots of weapons at the same time do more damage than one" thing that RA2 does, that would also be fantastic, but since it's part of the .exe, it's just a pipedream for now.

Should just ban weapon stacking.....

but thatll just bring up the "olol weld rule" excuse

DSL enforce no stacking in alot of things (ex batteries, motors).  What part of no weapons stack is harder to understand than the rest?

[Mr. AS]

Humm maybe the solution is to significantly increase the hitpoints for chassis armor while decreasing the HP of motors, so ppl have incentive to actually keep them inside the chassis.

Also maybe converting all weapons into concussion, which will block off bot types like "SnS" and "Popups".  Damage will be much more momentum based like in real robot combats, not thousands of little spikes scrapping the target.

What do you guys think?  Would you guys like a mod like that?

Sounds pretty good to me. If it were possible to do something about the "lots of weapons at the same time do more damage than one" thing that RA2 does, that would also be fantastic, but since it's part of the .exe, it's just a pipedream for now.

Should just ban weapon stacking.....

but thatll just bring up the "olol weld rule" excuse

DSL enforce no stacking in alot of things (ex batteries, motors).  What part of no weapons can share the same collision box with another weapon is hard to understand?

the part that made everyone start making stacked flippers popups and hs apparently