DEBATE: Ballasts.

[System32]

Yes, the debate is here. I wanna keep it short so can someone who is neutral be the judge.
 
Anyway, I'll be for them, and Don't post unless you have anything meaningful to say.
 
Let us begin:
 
Ballasts. They are basic components, attachable directly to the chassis, and cause no problems.
 
Why use them? My opinion is simple. Rather than potentially ruin a good bot by rebuilding it from scratch (Which is one of the preferred alternatives.) A simple 10 KG ballast is not a bad investment. They are small, allowing for little chassis redesign, and have a positive effect on the wedge.
 
"Why not batteries? They add power and add weight!"
 
Batteries are large in stock, and may need a chassis redesign, which ruins the whole point anyway. If you can add a pink as a ballast, Go ahead, nobody is stopping you.
 
"Casters work fine as well, why not them?"
 
Casters do work fine, but are about as unwieldy as batteries, and to fit inside the chassis, will need plenty of space. If you do attach them outside, you may only have weight for one (potentially ruining a wedge, as casters can to that.) or may need to attach it under (Again, ruining a wedge.) or to the side (Causing drift.).
 
 
 
The main point of my argument is that RA2 is part strategy, and whatever works for one bot may not work for another. This is why there are so many building styles, and so many bot types. Treat advice that can be attacked both ways like your genitalia: Don't show it in public and don't shove it down people's throats.
 
Now for whoever opposes to post.

[Sparkey98]

FINALLY
 
Ballasts are awsome, Ballasts help alot, it might not work on some bots, it might on others, I say if you want to use them, and it's reasonable, use them, s=don't listen to "ballasts are teh ghey" 'cuase there not, there very helpfull

[Urjak]

Of course, this renders them useless on non-wedged robots.

[System32]

Urjak: Assuming you are replying to my arguement?
 
The main point I'm making is that of the three weighting components (Ballasts, Batteries and Casters) Casters are useful investments if you don't want to rebuild parts of your bot.
 
And also: What idiot uses castors on non wedged bots?

[Urjak]

I am assuming you mean Ballasts and not casters.

I agree that they can be useful on wedged bots to good effect.

[Sparkey98]

Lra2, me, n008s, more n008s, retards making "tutorials" on youtube
 
BTW have you ever seen a tutorial on youtube? the'res one were the dude built a HUGE bot for it's class, 2 pistons, 2 reds when 2 blacks would fit, ect.

[System32]

Yes I mean Ballasts.
 
And I agree on your point on wedges.

[123savethewhales]

If the extra KG on ballasts let you outwedge more bots, then sure.  The problem then becomes, how many bots does the ballast actually help outwedge?

[JoeBlo]

well ITI used 3 from memory

another thing to throw into the equation I guess would be arenas.

the BBEANS arena had a perfectly flat floor meaning Ballasts had a much great positive then in another arena.

[Naryar]

*Kicks Sparkey because he's still saying sh***

Ballasts are probably the worst kind of components. Seriosuly, it's the only component that just adds weight without anything else or any other possibility.

Not to mention real life... what kind of builder puts ballasts in his bot ?

[JoeBlo]

^ that is a point ^

things like halfsheets act as a ballast + unbreakable Armour + extender if used right ?

[Naryar]

^^ Most likely.

Ah and i forgot something... longer wedges. If you have the weight to put a ballast on, you always have the weight to put more extenders to make your wedges longer, because long wedges are generally good.

[System32]

Oh looky! The person I needed to post!
 

Ballasts are probably the worst kind of components. Seriosuly, it's the only component that just adds weight without anything else or any other possibility.

Yet they are useful, which is what has been proven. Your logic is flawed.
 

Ballasts are probably the worst kind of components. Seriosuly, it's the only component that just adds weight without anything else or any other possibility.
Not to mention real life... what kind of builder puts ballasts in his bot ?

Warhead's complex tail and motor tilting mechanism was basically a ballast so it could compete as a HW.
 
Wheeli Wako used ballasts to help the weapon work.
 

things like halfsheets act as a ballast + unbreakable Armour + extender if used right ?

I agree on this point. Now, since DSL is ruled out, lets look at halfsheets in sto- Oh, wait.
 
The basic point I'm making is this, added in a format made for easy reading.
 

• Regular ballasts: Pros: It is small and compact, meaning that there is no need to move components around. They can use up weight quickly, making building to the weight limit easier. Cons: Useless on wedgeless bots. They have no other uses.
• Batteries: Pros: Can power a bot while using up weight. Cons: They are large, meaning that it may be hard to use them on shallow wedges.
• Castors: Pros: Invincible, can take less space. Cons: Can negate the wedge efficiancy if not used properly. Can take up space if outside the chassis.
• Other (Motors, anchors and ramplates.): Pros: Armours bots Cons: Takes up to much weight(Ramplates and motors, Anchors work fine)

Now, the only direction I smell is Ad Hominem or the bot building credentials card being played.

[kill343gs]

I have used wedges to the advantage of some of my bot's wedges (See: Constellation.) They are indeed a useful component if you have the weight left over. My wedge testing topic proved that ballasts improve wedginess, as originally brought to our attention by Insult to Injury. However, the usage of them should be watched carefully because they can be used incorrectly.

And Naryar, on the contrary, long wedges are situation based. It depends on the bot and the bots it is designed to face.

[Reier]

Generally speaking, Nary does have a point. Ballasts are the least useful of all the components. I think ballasts can be useful in SOME cases (like wedges), however.
 
One thing: this bugs me...
 

Yet they are useful, which is what has been proven. Your logic is flawed.

This is circular reasoning.... "They are useful because it's been proven - and it's been proven because they are useful" is what it sounds like you're saying to me.

Warhead's complex tail and motor tilting mechanism was basically a ballast so it could compete as a HW.
 
Wheeli Wako used ballasts to help the weapon work.

This is RA2, not real life... besides you can't attach ballasts to weapons in RA2 like warhead (if it even has any). I'm not sure what Wheelie Wako looks like so I can't say anything there.

• Regular ballasts: Pros: It is small and compact, meaning that there is no need to move components around. They can use up weight quickly, making building to the weight limit easier. Cons: Useless on wedgeless bots. They have no other uses. I agree...but I thought you were saying they were useful on non-wedge bots up there...?
• Batteries: Pros: Can power a bot while using up weight. Cons: They are large, meaning that it may be hard to use them on shallow wedges. I agree.
• Castors: Pros: Invincible, can take less space. Cons: Can negate the wedge efficiancy if not used properly. Can take up space if outside the chassis. Yeah, but in most cases the space they take up is not very much.
• Other (Motors, anchors and ramplates.): Pros: Armours bots. Cons: Takes up too much weight(Ramplates and motors, Anchors work fine) Anchors..? Technically they do add a little weight to the wedge but it is miniscule. Ramplates are good IMO, why do you think they aren't?

Now, the only direction I smell is Ad Hominem or the bot building credentials card being played. I wouldn't talk about Ad Hominem if I were you.

[System32]

I have no beef with ramplates, but the basically would take up 24 KG. Ballasts are more like a last ditch attempt component.

As for the logic thing, Kill just posted proof.

[Sage]

Nary, casters or ramplates won't work here:

[123savethewhales]

*Kicks Sparkey because he's still saying sh***

Ballasts are probably the worst kind of components. Seriosuly, it's the only component that just adds weight without anything else or any other possibility.

Not to mention real life... what kind of builder puts ballasts in his bot ?

Don't we all dump in huge amount of kg just to make our wedge slightly better?  I know ballast is useless in DSL, but we did move from 120 poly skirts to flipper/small wedge or dslbar/small wedge.  Not to mention the sacrifice in durability.

If I am hearing your properly it's not that you are against spending KG to make your wedge better, but just that extender/wedge will outwedge a ballast/wedge setup with the same kg.

[Sparkey98]

*Kicks Sparkey because he's still saying sh***

Ballasts are probably the worst kind of components. Seriosuly, it's the only component that just adds weight without anything else or any other possibility.

Not to mention real life... what kind of builder puts ballasts in his bot ?

when did I say sh**? if you're talking about s= that was a typo from......hitting keys on acidents

[R0B0SH4RK]

Let us begin:
 
Ballasts. They are basic components, attachable directly to the chassis, and cause no problems.

I disagree on your last point here. You've heard of "weight distrobution." You therefore know that a ballast placed incorrectly can cause a few problems - fishtailing, poor wedges, etc.
 

Why use them? My opinion is simple. Rather than potentially ruin a good bot by rebuilding it from scratch (Which is one of the preferred alternatives.) A simple 10 KG ballast is not a bad investment. They are small, allowing for little chassis redesign, and have a positive effect on the wedge.

So, you've now limited your arguments to the usefulness of ballasts on a wedged bot. While I agree that ballasts, when placed correctly, help a wedge, I still don't see how something like an HS will benefit from one over a caster bottom or larger wheels for invertibility or an extra weapon.

"Casters work fine as well, why not them?"
 
Casters do work fine, but are about as unwieldy as batteries, and to fit inside the chassis, will need plenty of space. If you do attach them outside, you may only have weight for one (potentially ruining a wedge, as casters can to that.) or may need to attach it under (Again, ruining a wedge.) or to the side (Causing drift.).

I'd say this is pretty accurate - but chances are wedged bots will have a large chassis. As you know, large chassis = better attachment opportunities for casters. If you can attach a caster, I'd recommend that over a ballast. I mean, who wouldn't want some invulnerable armour on their bot? This also neglects other types of bots, mainly those without wedges. An HS will never need a ballast because it has no wedge. Pwnator proved that you can have a bot with a caster and shinies, so why would you not literally cover your ass from those nasty gut-rippers?
 

My argument would be that some people here misunderstand why new builders are told not to use ballasts. The point of telling them not to is to try and make them learn how to maximize the weight they put in for useful components, rather than encouraging ballast-spam "to make good wedges." Is there a time and place for ballasts? Contrary to Naryar's beliefs, yes. Generally, though, we want to encourage avoiding them in order to help noobs learn. It's like teaching a kid to multiply without a calculator - they still gain the skill, even though they can use the tool later.


...

Treat advice that can be attacked both ways like your genitalia: Don't show it in public and don't shove it down people's throats.

They could easily download the Starcore AIv3 like us, why do this?

This is why moron.
 
SC3 has the learning curve of running into a brick wall. You seem to like this.

Too bad I don't **cking care about you, dickweed.

You can't see the whole point of this idea, but then again you clearly can't see the point of even reading the first post.

And you just nullified your own point with the "not listening to adviice part."

Seriously, you survive the pill or what?

Somebody, you need that shovel...

SO STOP DIGGING A **ckING HOLE FOR YOURSELF AND GET THAT SAND OUT OF YOUR VAGINA!

TiLT's bots are RUBBISH. R-U-B-B-I-S-H!

And Naryar was actually LRA2? **ck... That's a legendary win off the bat.

I'm not sayin', just sayin'...