Bring back the old ways!

[Zog]

I, like many other people on this forum, was on the official RA2 forums (I was only on for 2 weeks though). I still remember the old ways of stock, in which we built "realistic" bots. The bots in stock which we now classify as "realistic" would fall apart after 2 seconds IRL.


Now, earlier today I read something that Sage said whilst browsing the forums. He wrote it about a year ago, but it intrigued me. He stated to RFS that bots built in stock are no longer realistic, and that he should know that by now (for those interested, he wrote it in MAD's topic "AceUpLink Survivors").


This is why I think that we should revert to our old ways with building in stock, and actually try and focus more on realism, rather than defences.


I regularly check "A blast from the past... Checking 'da archives", and I'm astounded at how people build bots in stock now compared to back then.


So who feels the same way?

[Pwnator]

You can't just force people into making all of their robots realistic. It's just like forcing vegetarians to eat meat.

If you want to build realistic stock bots, go ahead. Thyrus is doing roughly the same thing in DSL and he's doing fine. :P


Bot building evolves. You can't help it. Someday even our bots will be phased out.

[JoeBlo]

^ yup ^

honestly you miss it now because its not the norm but IMO the unrestricted aspect is what kept this alive for so long, the less restrictions allowed designs to compete with the flexibility of DSL.

I in my free time build robots that you would find IRL in a copy of stock myself (with a few custom parts), it actually is the birth father of Backlash, I find it fun myself but as soon as you jump into a AI tournament situation.... well.... you saw Pow...

like Pwnator said, by all means do it and try and get people interested but you cant just straight tell everyone to not build in a particular way (believe me, I tried :P)

[Gazea2]

^You have both hit the nail on the head.

No one is saying that you can't build like that. If you want to, do it but don't expect to win in a tournament. RA2, like every other game, evolves. New techniques, new glitches, new information surfaces and we use it to our advantage.

With RA2's physics engine, it will never ever be able to be fully realistic. You can try to build realistic bots but that won't stop other people from making their unrealistic machines.

If you want to build realistic bots, go for it. If not, then don't complain about the unrealistic-ness of everyone else's bots.

[kill343gs]

Perfect realism in such an unrealistic game is something that is near impossible. Even back in the day when "everybody built realistic" as you are saying, there were folks like ACAMS and Starcore that were building bots far more advanced and not so realistic. The game changed then, and I sincerely doubt it is ever going back.

RA2 is the best robot-combat simulation game in existence. However, it was developed a very long time ago and the result was a game that still did not quite match up to real building. That's what DSL was made for, a step in that direction. Building effective realistic bots in stock is nay-impossible.

[NFX]

I know next to nothing about the Old World forums, but I do agree that building style naturally evolves over time. The game's has seven years (?) to be played, and its glitches and secrets discovered, so the bots would gradually incorporate these more and more, until it's all seen as acceptable, really. If you want to build realistic stock bots, go ahead, Jonzu managed a pretty good realistic Stock tournament. I don't think we should suddenly impose the restrictions on everybody, though.

[Zog]

@Kill - Yes, I respect that, and I completely agree with Pwn's comment. The only problem is though, is that whilst I build in stock like Thyrus builds in DSL, no one else does.


And I understand that I probably won't be able to convince the whole community to change their building ways, especially people like JD, but like you said, bot building evolves and changes, and it still is. All that I am trying to do is to force it to turn right instead of left. I always will build realistic in stock, and all I hope for is that a small amount of the community will follow. Some of the Vets might, too, depending if they prefer the old ways or the new ways.


As for me, well, I definitely prefer the old ways.


@NFX - The old forums (my memory won't be too good) were absolutely brilliant. You will not believe how much happened in them, mods and ideas wise. I'm definitely not trying to make everyone have these restrictions, but I just hope for a small portion of the community to agree.

[NFX]

I do build some more realistic Stock bots, but they're really just for kicks, and taking on the Stock AI. Like I said, Jonzu had the realistic Stock tournament not too long ago, and there was N00B Wars courtesy of Reier. I reckon realistic Stock tourneys are quite a good idea, personally.

[Naryar]

I do try to build some realistic (well, DSL realistic) stock bots when I build stock. I don't personally like UBER STACKED HS. They just are ugly and make no sense.

[Jonzu95]

I agree with NFX and Zog.

[Scorpion]

One of the main resasons I never build in stock is because I feel the need to build something using a f@~#-load of glitches.
I know it isn't the case, but for whatever reason that's what goes through my mind when I think about stock.
You know...maybe if I did try to build properly realistic bots for stock, I might actually start to like it in the same league as DSL, so you may have won one person over atleast zog  .

But yeah, people aren't going to suddenly start building in stock like they do in DSL, and if they did, stock would probably end up dead.
Still, you could definately get people interested in realistic stock, it would be cool to see for sure.

[RedSawn]

We can't change a community this far in so easily.
However, we can promote realistic stock designs with tournies and the like ^^
*Probably going over what somebody else said*

[powerrave]

i have always been building realistic, but for tournaments, it's not possible in stock. get wiped out in seconds. i just made myself a DSL only builder. more parts, more options and all realistic. well, RA2 realistic. it wouldn't be bad to have more things where you build a bot as you would build it IRL.

[Serge]

I don't build, but if I would, it'd probably be realistic.

[powerrave]

for me on the old RA2 forum, it was already unrealistic building in stock. i didn't like it and was still building realistic in stock. Inf didn't agree with me on that, but i didn't care... and i still don't.

[Badnik96]

Meh, I personally don't care, but because it took me about a year to make an effective Stock HW in this game, I totally agree with Zog here.

[Sage]

Build a realistic bot that hasn't been done before and is semi-effective and I'll see your point as valid.

Otherwise, stock's about having fun building whatever the you want to build, with most "restrictions" already broken by glitches and such. Almost everyone who pushes for "realistic" stock are those who are too lazy to put in the effort and learn the glitches and techniques and patience required to build a good bot, so they're looking for a way to bring other people down. At least my opinion.

[Scorpion]

@sage I know HOW to do the glitches, and im sure if I tried and spent some time in my stock showcase I could build decently in it. I just don't like stock for many reasons.
If I, or somebody else for that matter, can make cool looking, or at the very least unique bots in stock, but without effectiveness and loads of glitches, would you call them lazy?
I'm not saying that they should try and make everybody else do the same, but i'm saying if somebody was to do that (like thyrus in DSL) they shouldn't be looked down on for it (although, not saying that you think that, i just want to know your opinion on that).

[powerrave]

to me, all those unrealistic stock bots looks the same. can't see the fun in that. it's all DSL for me, there everyone builds realistic bots.

and Sage, want to see a realistic and good stock bot? search for my Micro Vulcan.

[Scorpion]

to me, all those unrealistic stock bots looks the same.

Reason I don't like stock #17