DEBATE: Swear words

[frezal]

Yes, but that wasn't integrated into society. That was the church exercising its power. Swearing will become less offensive as time goes on, but it will be a slow process, and for now the thoughts of the old days still ring true in our society.

Mixed race couples was very much integrated into society. There are even isolated cases of mixed race couples being denied a marriage licenses now. How do we combat pointless societal rules? Stop enforcing them. Change doesn't just happen; it requires action.

Yes, but that isn't obscene slang. The synonyms are not vulgar. Awesome, a synonym, is OK. The synonym for sh**, however, is a horribly disgusting pile of feces that brings a bad image to ones head.

But one can say, "Poop," "Crap," and, "Feces," without people like you objecting. So what makes a word obscene? (I'm talking on more of a philosophical level here.)

That's true, you don't know them. The answer is no.

Sad.

You, being 21, have a completely different relationship with your friends' parents than me, being 15. Therefore, you can't compare.

That is true.

It becomes my friend's problem when he gets kicked out of the house.

If your friend wasn't sexually harassing anybody, it might be best for him to avoid households containing prudes.

Was this before or after he was elected? Was this broadcasted nationally on TV? Also, does anyone have any respect for Dick Cheney?

Based off his appearance, I believe the Bush thing happened while he was still Gov. Bush. As for Cheney, that was during the first term, if memory serves correct. As for respect, Cheney still has credibility amongst the neo-cons.

[Sage]

What I mean was swearing was just taboo, and everyone came to accept that. Marriage laws actually brought down the hammer and said people couldn't do things. People all over followed the church, and if it believed some words were sinful, then that's what the people came to accept. Over time they were just taboo without thinking that it had a connection to the church, which is where we are now.

Well, again we get into the synonym debate. It gets back into levels of meaning. Saying "Oh crap" is like saying "darn", while saying "oh sh**" is like saying "damn". Both are expletives, but one has more emotion in it than the other. It is an "obscene" amount of anger, surprise, or pain. That's my thinking, at least.


Well unfortunately for him, most teenage parents are like that nowadays.



See, he wasn't running for presidency.

[frezal]

What I mean was swearing was just taboo, and everyone came to accept that. Marriage laws actually brought down the hammer and said people couldn't do things. People all over followed the church, and if it believed some words were sinful, then that's what the people came to accept. Over time they were just taboo without thinking that it had a connection to the church, which is where we are now.

Which brings us back to the "why". Why continue to consider these words taboo if the reasons are no longer relevant?

Well, again we get into the synonym debate. It gets back into levels of meaning. Saying "Oh crap" is like saying "darn", while saying "oh sh**" is like saying "damn". Both are expletives, but one has more emotion in it than the other. It is an "obscene" amount of anger, surprise, or pain. That's my thinking, at least.

Is "damn" considered obscene? One of the most famous lines in movie history contains the word "damn"! ("Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."--Gone with the Wind.) In any case, if obscenity is directly proportional to intensity, why aren't the more intense forms of other words considered taboo?

Well unfortunately for him, most teenage parents are like that nowadays.

Just because the bulk of parents are hypocrites, that doesn't make their position right.

See, he wasn't running for presidency.

I didn't say that. I'm thinking it was during the 2000 primaries. Of course, I was only 12 back then.

When I was your age, I held the same position on "bad" words. I absolutely didn't say them, and got upset at those who did. As I got older, I started to think about things more; I started to question why things are the way they are. The more I thought about life, the more I realized just how much of society is based on completely arbitrary rules. There is no practical reason that I know of to not use the words in question. The objections to them are completely arbitrary, and as pointed out by you, were created by the church in an attempt to control primitive people.

So I ask, why continue to perpetuate this archaic nonsense? Even if the churches still maintained that these words were cursed, how does that affect me? Why should I be required to obey by the rules of bronze age myths that I don't believe in?

[Sage]

It's like a bad habit. Swearing is definitely becoming more and more commonplace, but it will take a very long time for it to be accepted as normal, formal, and casual conversation by everyone. Because, of course, there are still many people who belong to a church.

The reason you swear is because you see no reason against it, and because you like the words better. However, there ARE still some people who find it offensive, and I think you should respect that. Their reason: because that's the way they were taught by their parents, who were taught by their parents, go back like 10 generations, who were taught by the church. Until that way of thinking dies down completely, respect those who still think like that, even if they are wrong in your opinion. Eventually someone in their family will have the same thoughts as you, with or without your help.

[Sage]

Change doesn't just happen; it requires action.



When I was your age, I held the same position on "bad" words. I absolutely didn't say them, and got upset at those who did. As I got older, I started to think about things more; I started to question why things are the way they are. The more I thought about life, the more I realized just how much of society is based on completely arbitrary rules. There is no practical reason that I know of to not use the words in question. The objections to them are completely arbitrary, and as pointed out by you, were created by the church in an attempt to control primitive people.

By the way, isn't this a contradiction?

[frezal]

It's like a bad habit. Swearing is definitely becoming more and more commonplace, but it will take a very long time for it to be accepted as normal, formal, and casual conversation by everyone. Because, of course, there are still many people who belong to a church.

Formal and casual conversation languages are completely different. For instance, describing something as "cool" when not referring to temperature is not at all formal. It is, however, in the casual parlance. Due to your age, I assume that you haven't spent much time, if any, on a college campus. Casual conversations are flooded with "****"s, "sh**"s, "bitch"es, "ass"es, "damn"s, etc. Even professors use these words in their lectures. So while authority figures may still be trying to keep kids down, in the real world, nobody really cares (aside from fundamentalists).

The reason you swear is because you see no reason against it, and because you like the words better. However, there ARE still some people who find it offensive, and I think you should respect that.

I will alter my speech patterns if one of two conditions are met: 1) Convincingly tell me why the words shouldn't be said. Included in this condition should be why they are offensive. 2) Agree to not use an arbitrary list of words of my choosing. While I do not wish to censor anyone, this option would, at the very list, level the playing field.

Their reason: because that's the way they were taught by their parents, who were taught by their parents, go back like 10 generations, who were taught by the church.

I wouldn't accept that excuse for other things such as why somebody is racist, so why should I accept that excuse here? If you don't break the pattern of stupidity, you are just as guilty as those before you.

Until that way of thinking dies down completely, respect those who still think like that, even if they are wrong in your opinion.

If they meet one of two conditions, I will gladly censor myself.

Eventually someone in their family will have the same thoughts as you, with or without your help.

That's not good enough. That is why slavery wasn't outlawed until Lincoln. They felt as though it was dying out, and that eventually it would just go away. Well, that didn't happen. It took action (albeit from a bit of a tyrant) to bring it to an end.

I don't see the contradiction, by the way. Changing my views after a considerable amount of thinking is consistent for me.

[Scrap Daddy]

I feel as though Frezal has brought up the better points in this debate. 


fixed?

[frezal]

Frezal is winning

While that is certainly flattering to hear...er..read, it sort of detracts from an otherwise intelligent conversation. It can cause the affirmative side to get riled up and make logical or other mistakes.

[Sage]

Well he is arguing the easier side...


I'm not quite sure what we are arguing anymore. Is it that you, frezal, should refrain from swearing, why swearing is offensive, or what?


What it comes down to is how you want people to look at you. If a hardcore church-goer see's you swearing, they think of you as sinful. If you were to start swearing your head off in this debate, people would see you as not in control and easily angered. If a parent or elder sees you they think of you as impudent with little respect.

However, I agree with your point that you can swear if you want. It just comes down to how you want to present yourself.

So, technically, you win this debate, even though the conclusion is a subjective one. Gratz, and thanks for the debate.

[frezal]

I'm not quite sure what we are arguing anymore. Is it that you, frezal, should refrain from swearing, why swearing is offensive, or what?

I was really hoping to read why these words offend you on a personal level. Unfortunately, it seems as though you oppose these words simply because the authority figures in your life say that they're forbidden.

What it comes down to is how you want people to look at you. If a hardcore church-goer see's you swearing, they think of you as sinful.

The opinions of hardcore church-goers don't matter to me. I view them as primitive people, but that's another debate.

If you were to start swearing your head off in this debate, people would see you as not in control and easily angered.

It doesn't take swear words to appear as though you're not in control. You may have been to young to remember this, but in the 2004 democratic primaries, Howard Dean was favored to win. Then he made the mistake doing what is now known as the "Dean Scream". No, he didn't "curse". He let out a noise that is not in any known language. After that, people viewed him as hot-headed. So I contend that it's not necessarily the word choice, but how the words are used. (Or non-words, in Howard Dean's case.)

If a parent or elder sees you they think of you as impudent with little respect.

And I would view them as a hypocrite as they most likely "swear" as well.

However, I agree with your point that you can swear if you want. It just comes down to how you want to present yourself.

Those who wish to judge me based entirely on arbitrary rules are not the kind of people I care about.

[Sage]

Me personally? I have never brought my personal opinion into this. I really don't care if people around me swear, but I do care what people think of me when I swear. People can swear all they want around me. No offense taken at all.

I was just debating because I love debating. And to see if I could win one against you, lol.


See, you don't care about the views of the church-goers. So it's fine for you to swear. Again, subjective to what you want people to think of you.


Sure, there ARE other ways to show hotheadedness, but that doesn't mean swearing isn't one of them.


Well you wouldn't get a chance to debate them about their views because they will keep them to theirselves. Unless they call you an impudent disrespectful brat, but I doubt that would happen.


(See line about church-goers, it's the same point)

[Stagfish]

Frezel is good at this

[G.K.]

Who's Frezel?

[frezal]

Who's Frezel?

He's my cousin, Frezel McFrezalton.

[Sparkey98]

I don't get why swears and curses are bad anyway, cause it's just a word. If I told everyone to tell everyone that "carf" is a bad word that means F U and burn in hell, then it would be a curse, right? so since it's just a word, it should mean nothing, thats just the meaning society gave the words