Debate: Are you ready to die?

[Stagfish]

lol

i am not scared of death but when you die is the scary bit

[Somebody]

I am not necessarily afraid of death, however I am afraid of dying young or painful. I would never have a death wish no matter how bad life gets, because it can only get better from there. I have so much I want to do in my future. Get my license, build a robot, become an engineer, complete college, etc.
My grandpa died of a condition called myelofibrosis. In a nutshell, it makes your bone marrow stop producing red blood cells. Gradually your body cannot absorb the oxygen. I would be scared of dying a death where you can physically breath in as much as you want, but slowly asphyxiate by a lack of red blood cells. That would be a terrible way to go.

However I do believe in  the afterlife, because I know that there is a possibility it exists. I know that I will get to see my grandpa again. Along with my other grandpa and the rest of my family.

Think about it:
So many people with near death experiences see lost relative. There must be something!
And the laws of physics can be broken. The wings of a bee are simple, and they actually are supposedly too small to make the bee fly. It flies however.

[Rolo]

lol

i am not scared of death but when you die is the scary bit

True
I'm not afraid of death, it's the dying part that worries me.
I wouldn't be afraid to jump off a tall building, I'd be afraid of the landing..

[SKBT]

This might be mean and result in insults but when it is time to go it is time to go. If the population keeps increasing with more and more people living longer and not dieing there will be over population and something will have to give. Resources, space, crops.

[Urjak]

I like you a lot buddy (Thank you, I like you to).

In this worldview, if everyone is their own king, then why have laws? (Because when strictly dealing with your own enjoyment of life, no one else really matters. I acknowledge my worldview does not work for an organized society, and that laws ensue the society functions).

 Why is it wrong to steal or even murder? (Because that ruins life for other people).

I think you believe in macro-evolution, so answer me this; if we are just a random bunch of chemicals, why should we "punish" people? (Because we have created a concept called morality. It doesn't exist in the natural world, we created it, its artificial. I don't know why... we as a society simply have it. In the natural world, an animal will do anything it can to survive. When we created "morality" and laws, we enforced them through punishment. It's not a matter of whether or not we should, we just do...).

After all, we wouldn't send baking soda to jail for reacting with vinegar. So why should we be angry for a bunch of chemicals destroying another bunch of chemicals? (Again, artificial morality).

 How can chemicals be angry at all? (They can't).


If everything is material, then how could we have laws of logic? (We created them, we define "logic" as we define it. The material universe has no comment on what humans define as "logical").

 We know they exist because I am coming up with a comeback just now. Laws of Logic can't exist in a totally material universe. (In a world without humans? Yes, you are absolutely right).

Also, Laws of Logic do not vary from person to person. (They do, but only slightly. We have been taught by society what "logic" is, and we can alter it slightly, but cannot truly differentiate from what we have been repeatedly taught).

If they did, arguing would be totally impossible. The only way they could exist is if we had an intellegent Designer. (You are right, the intelligent designers are humans. We, and we alone define what "logic" is).

The Big Bang couldn't create laws of logic because the Big Bang was hypothetically material. (The big bang did not. We as humans did).

Well, there's my response. I look forward to seeing what yours is.

[Naryar]

@Reier: I want a few logical proofs that God is real.

Did you ever saw him or experimented him ? Can you even think of a way to try and prove he is real ?

Or are you just following what you have been told/taught when younger ?

[Rolo]

Mars.

The good part or the bad part?

The caramel filled part

Also: Atheists vs christians, round 8592

[123savethewhales]

I want a few logical proofs that God is real.

If the universe in infinite, then a being resembling the description of God must exist, and a God greater than him, and on and on.  In fact anything that is physically possible must exist, with an infinite amount of copies.

If the world is finite, and if the cosmic microwave background prediction to the size of our universe is accurate, then the chance of life such as us existing randomly within the 13 billion years, even from the most optimistic predictions, are nowhere near 100%.  In a sense than to say we happen randomly isn't anymore logical than some kind of intelligent design.

As of today, the chances of intelligent life (such as us) existing is an open question, as demonstrated by the Fermi Paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Of course, that is not to say that some form of God, if exist, has anything to do with Christianity.

[Naryar]

Drake equation, eh ?

If the universe in infinite, then a being resembling the description of God must exist, and a God greater than him, and on and on.  In fact anything that is physically possible must exist, with an infinite amount of copies.

Why should an infinitely large universe should necessarily have an infinite diversity ? There IS a possibility of God existing, but i will not say it MUST exist.

And your point, while clever, is purely theorical.

[123savethewhales]

Drake equation, eh ?

If the universe in infinite, then a being resembling the description of God must exist, and a God greater than him, and on and on.  In fact anything that is physically possible must exist, with an infinite amount of copies.

Why should an infinitely large universe should necessarily have an infinite diversity ? There IS a possibility of God existing, but i will not say it MUST exist.

And your point, while clever, is purely theorical.

You need to understand a bit about infinity mathematics to understand why infinite universe MUST create infinite amount of physically possible arrangements.

It's not hard to see if you put it into a standard mathematical equation.  When you flip a coin, your chance of getting head is 1/2, you flip a coin twice you get 3/4, if you flip an infinity amount of times, chances of getting a head will be 1.  Or take lotteries, a very rare chance to win, but with enough people participating, you get a winner eventually.  Unfortunately that's what happens when you deal with infinity in math, you got an infinite amount of lottery participants, you end up with an infinite amount of winners.

This is why you don't see cosmologist/physicist working with infinity, it's a monstrosity, it's not a real number, and many believe it can't be how our world is.

As to density, quantum activities ensures that true vacuum cannot exist as long as there are space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle

And here's an article on multi-verse if you are interested, in this we are dealing with level 1 multi-verses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

So which position would you take, an infinite universe or a finite one?  It obviously has to be one of the 2.  Or would you continue to dodge the argument by calling it theoretical?

[Urjak]

I personally think the universe is finite. I think it is rapidly expanding, but does not go on forever, and thus all possible arrangements do not have to be present.

[123savethewhales]

I personally think the universe is finite. I think it is rapidly expanding, but does not go on forever, and thus all possible arrangements do not have to be present.

I would say that's the more accepted model.  The 13 billion years old universe; the one with the 100 billion stars per galaxy and 100 galaxies.  They also make more sense since at least they are indirectly observable.  But to say we exist by pure chance in this case will require us to know the chances of at least 1 planet with complex life existing in a finite world, and to resolve the Fermi Paradox.

[Rolo]

I might've cared more if there was any chance I could form an opinion on anything else than things I hear other people say.

Yeah, I'm agnostic.

[Clickbeetle]

Drake equation, eh ?

If the universe in infinite, then a being resembling the description of God must exist, and a God greater than him, and on and on.  In fact anything that is physically possible must exist, with an infinite amount of copies.

Why should an infinitely large universe should necessarily have an infinite diversity ? There IS a possibility of God existing, but i will not say it MUST exist.

And your point, while clever, is purely theorical.

in an infinitely large Universe such as, for instance, the one in which we live, most things one could possibly imagine, and a lot of things one would rather not, grow somewhere.

And another related quote.

It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.

As for the original topic here, I'm not "ready" to die because I think I still have a purpose here, but I'm not especially worried about it.  If I'm right and there is a God and a Heaven, then I get to live forever and everything's cool.  And if I'm wrong and this short life is all there is, well then I'll just cease to exist and I'll never know that I was wrong, so it won't matter.  It's a no-lose situation.

[Sparkey98]

I personally have proof of an after life, of some sort, so I'm not woried.

[Resetti's Replicas]

You have actual, undeniable, tangible, solid evidence?  The entire scientific and theological communities would be all over you if they knew, dare I ask what your proof might be?

[frezal]

If I'm right and there is a God and a Heaven, then I get to live forever and everything's cool.  And if I'm wrong and this short life is all there is, well then I'll just cease to exist and I'll never know that I was wrong, so it won't matter.  It's a no-lose situation.

What if the Muslims, Zoroastrians, or one of the other various non-Christian religions were the right one?

I personally have proof of an after life, of some sort, so I'm not woried.

Please share.

[Sparkey98]

When I was about 5, a few months after my uncle, my favorite person in the world, passed away, me and my grandma were taking a walk, and we both saw him, same position, on the same bench, same time, same day, he even waved to us, then vanished. It's not the usual "one person saw him and the other imagined it" or "we were both loopy from sadness" thing, we both saw him. I'm not making this up. So that's my proof, that even if there is no heaven, there is an afterlife.

[Jack Daniels]

While I hadn't really intended for this topic to spur some more religion debates. I do understand how it is essentially inevitable for the two debates to intertwine. I, personally, do not follow or practice any particular religion myself. Like Rolo, I consider myself to be agnostic. While I do respect what others believe and follow (that IS the purpose of free will, to believe what they want) I also observe others and how they conduct themselves in their respective religions.

I spent an entire year reading and studying the Bardo Thodol (the Tibetan Book of the Dead).  The book is, essentially, a guide to prepare for the afterlife and the ceremonies that take place during and leading up to the death experience.  The belief structure is based very keenly on Buddhism. With that, there is the also the Buddhist belief that there are many many many Gods. And each of them represent different things. Depending on how you conduct yourself during your life you will face different gods in the afterlife. When you are presented to those gods in the afterlife you will be judged.  Fascinating indeed.  The part that I found the most valuable in reading the Bardo Thodol is that it puts a strong emphasis on taking responsibility for your actions every day.  Putting the best effort you can into being peaceful and enjoying the gift of life while you have it.

It is argued in the book that other cultures adopted similar beliefs but simplified the whole she-bang by dividing the afterlife into Heaven and Hell.  Because human beings have this horrible desire to separate things into Black and White answers without shades of gray.  This is why religious stalwarts end up making pretty harsh judgements upon others because they try desperately to line up their "right and wrong" with "black or white" beliefs and core values.  And... even more unfortunately, there is a huge segment of the religious population that basis their core values based on what they were taught by their leaders.  This is when you get extreme people killing in the name of Allah. I mean c'mon really? Do you really think that Allah wants you to kill other human beings so much?  Seriously, if there is an afterlife and people have to answer to Gods about what they did... there there are going to be a ton of confused human beings in the afterlife wondering why they are in so much trouble.

So anyways, most of your answers are awesome.  There is no right or wrong answer to this debate.  Most of you expressed that you got more to accomplish in life before you die. Excellent! Accomplish those things. Don't slow down.  I thought it was actually funny that Sonny said I was possibly directing this debate at the older people on the forum. I actually hadn't really considered directing it at anyone in particular.  But I did want you all to think about it.  Death... is inevitable. What you do before then is very much in your control.

Narrator: [Tyler steers the car into the opposite lane and accelerates] What are you doing?
Tyler Durden: Guys, what would you wish you'd done before you died?
Ricky: Paint a self-portrait.
The Mechanic: Build a house.
Tyler Durden: [to Narrator] And you?
Narrator: I don't know. Turn the wheel now, come on!
Tyler Durden: You have to know the answer to this question! If you died right now, how would you feel about your life?
Narrator: I don't know, I wouldn't feel anything good about my life, is that what you want to hear me say? Fine. Come on!
Tyler Durden: Not good enough.

[frezal]

When I was about 5, a few months after my uncle, my favorite person in the world, passed away, me and my grandma were taking a walk, and we both saw him, same position, on the same bench, same time, same day, he even waved to us, then vanished. It's not the usual "one person saw him and the other imagined it" or "we were both loopy from sadness" thing, we both saw him. I'm not making this up. So that's my proof, that even if there is no heaven, there is an afterlife.

One natural explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_hallucination