gametechmods
Robot Arena Matches => Tournaments => Tournament Archives => Topic started by: System32 on August 08, 2012, 02:41:20 PM
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The latest edition of NAR AI availible as of today is being used in a massive round robin tournament. I'm cutting it up into chunks to deal with the scale, and devolving everything to a single battle each.
Basically, this is to show two things; The current state and balance of the AI pack and to be a soapbox for my RA2 musings while I update.
The first segment is a MW round robin. Segment one includes all the bots from the "stock" teams. the MW, LW, BW and AW packs will be in BBEANS v2 arena. Let's watch.
http://challonge.com/6gg5kkmore (http://challonge.com/6gg5kkmore)
The 28 contestants will fight for 27 rounds. That is over 300 battles. over 1000 if I did a best of three.
Luckily, The fact it's a round robin should equalize the unfair losses as the tournament drags on. Not only this, the best bots from the chunks will go into a few "high tier" chunks to really sort out the best of the best. This should essentially serve to show what bots truly need updating, what bots don't and what the metagame is looking like at the moment.
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wow.
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Dang, you got alot of work ahead of you.
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Cool, I'll use the results for RA2 science.
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That will take a Really long time.
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Okay, First thing:
As of round 2, I'll be doing all of scavengers matchups before I continue. The UI of challaonge allows for this and Scavenger nasty pickes a lot, taking up a ton of time.
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Aaaand done with scavenger. At 2-25, he's arguably the worst bot in Segment 1.
The design is solid as a concept and fun to watch, and he was never Redzoned at all. Most of his losses were due to a lack of DPS, Trying to nasty pickle and being knocked out of the arena.
He beat Iceberg due to out weaponing it and the opponent flipping itself due to the motor speed of it's drive, and 742 due to the fact that bot has issues with being unable to self right from the back and sides.
@ guy who AI'ed Explosive Material: Nice 0 radius there.
The bot is another solid design, but the AI literally punishes it to a ridiculous degree. Most of it's losses are due to it turning broadside because it's wedges snagged. Up the radius and it'll be a solid competitor.
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I think I'm done for the night.
The 4 top winners will go to the high tiers.
Also, the BBEANS hammer bot Reier made is better than the two in Segment one. They need updating.
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this (very huge) tourney should give us insight into what bots need updating in nar ai
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This is awesome
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lol scavenger actually won something ?
I'll see what I can do with Explosive Material's AI. And upgrade the bot as well.
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lol scavenger actually won something ?
I'll see what I can do with Explosive Material's AI. And upgrade the bot as well.
742 was unable to flip it out before it put itself to its side. that design needs a slight update, preferably to emulate the UK flippers, which should fix that problem.
Iceberg is just bad. Up the DPS, Look at Starcore AI hammers for self righting, Curve the hammer, Better the wedge.
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Samurai is amazing. It has great throwing power from it's weapons and DPS. The problem is the lack of weaponry leaves it useless in any sustained matchup, even moreso than other popups. Also, a lack of "opponent control" means a lot of it's potential goes to waste as harrassment.
Finally, it has self righting issues, even worse than erectus. Samurai has to backflip until it loses power to actually self right.
These flaws ruin an otherwise solid design that holds up to opponents with weapons and wedges that thoretically outclass it.
Also, erectus 2 has serius self righting issues. This costs it matches. Even worse than ExMa's bindings failures.
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My favorite image so far.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/31934ohgodwhat.png)
I should have taken the pic where feeblemind jammed itself againt the blade and spent the whole match using that as a weapon, or scavenger diving onto slashback by ignoring he central bit, clinbing up and attacking by rolling off it onto it's chassis.
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Are you doing every middleweight in nar AI?
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Are you doing every middleweight in nar AI?
By the end of the project, I'll have done every robot.
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awesome, really.
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No, only the ones in the first 16 teams.
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No, only the ones in the first 16 teams.
I broke it up into segments. Otherwise, I'd end up doing over 1000 matches, and that's just for MW's.
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Oh, I was just looking at the challonge page and only saw the first 16 teams. But I think splitting it up is deffinently a wise move.
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Naryar, almost all of Insanity's losses were because it has to spend the start of the round self righting because of the 0 radius making it ram into a wall and flip itself.
Also, it has issues self righting from the back, meaning if it hits itself and goes on it's back, it can lose to bots like scavenger.
This is one of the bots that is contesting for the top 4 spots.
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I'm actually surprised Insanity is doing so well... also it has 0 radius ? I'm surprised, did I forgot to add radius because IIRC very few bots have been AI'd intentionally with 0 radius.
I'll take your precious advice and start rebuilding.
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I'm actually surprised Insanity is doing so well... also it has 0 radius ? I'm surprised, did I forgot to add radius because IIRC very few bots have been AI'd intentionally with 0 radius.
I'll take your precious advice and start rebuilding.
This is in the BBeans 2 arena. Insanity has a powerful throw becase the bust rests in just the right spot. It gets hit, pushing it in slightly, and at the same time it fires. This increases the power of the flip by a rediculious amount. Think about how varied Sentry from the DSL 2 pack is. sometimes it's a toss to the ceiling, sometimes it's barely a lift.
Also, I'm assuming all bots have 0 radius. The standard was 99 range/0 radius/120 turnspeed/130 speed whatever...
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Insanity has 0.1 radius, and none of the bots from the first teams have a radius inferior to 0.1.
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Insanity has 0.1 radius, and none of the bots from the first teams have a radius inferior to 0.1.
Oh.
They still need buffing though. It's like starcore with all that snagging.
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The top four spots are seriously contested.
Shockwave 2, Ronin, Slashback 4 and Angry Redneck hold the top spots, but Insanity, Ripblade IV and Darkling v2 are ready to contest them. Needless to say, some sort of popup/flipper is going to be one of the big four for segment one, but what else will come from there?
Also, for the rest of the segments, 14-21 bots per group with 2-3 going through. It leaves less work in total.
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5 rounds to go. Segment 2 will be every antweight in NAR AI.
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AND Done with segment one.
About 385 updates, minus all the edits.
http://challonge.com/6gg5kkmore (http://challonge.com/6gg5kkmore)
Arguably, everything from feeblemind to scavenger need fixes badly. everything else outside of the top 7 can be fixed if it is felt that way.
Blood Runner and 742 have wedge issues. The flipper of 742 passes though geometry when firing, making it weaker than it should. Sometimes, when Blood Runner wins a wedge war, it's wedge goes through the floor, which can cost it matches.
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Arguably, everything from feeblemind to scavenger need fixes badly.
Don't think anyone would argue with that, 10 wins out of 27 matches isn't good enough for such an AI pack.
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Arguably, everything from feeblemind to scavenger need fixes badly.
Don't think anyone would argue with that, 10 wins out of 27 matches isn't good enough for such an AI pack.
The arguabl comes from the fact the arena was biased against feeblemind, along with how funny the drives are in DSL. Half it's losses where due to it flying, and those weren't havoks. It just straight rolled up the wall out of the arena.
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scavanger is just sh**, id replace it with some trfbd or something but thats just me
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Ok, 35 (!) AW's in NAR AI.
I'll be cutting the brackets into two. A 18 bot and a 17 bot bracket.
I'll also be having a pause in be-tween brackets to do some more MW fun.
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The brackets are up!
http://challonge.com/reryhey (http://challonge.com/reryhey)
http://challonge.com/erhgnaraiaw2 (http://challonge.com/erhgnaraiaw2)
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Mercury poisoning has AI issues. It is DQ'd
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Hey, where's The Spider In Your Bedroom?
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Hey, where's The Spider In Your Bedroom?
I split the brackets up. Spider is in 2.
Also, Hell hound is also messed up in the bindings. it goes the wrong way.
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Oh, I see it now, but not before XD
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What happened to Hell Hound?
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What happened to Hell Hound?
Faces wrong way, attacks wrong way.
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Oh yeah, got it.
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CU83 Z3R0 has troble with the arena. this is costing it badly. I'll have to do some preliminary testing on the AWs, list the ones with obvious problems and rebuild the brackets.
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Wow Scavenger did horrible.
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What happened to Hell Hound?
Faces wrong way, attacks wrong way.
That shouldn't be to hard to fix
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What happened to Hell Hound?
Faces wrong way, attacks wrong way.
That shouldn't be to hard to fix
I'm too lazy and incompetant an AIer. The point is to see what bots are the best from the download.
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Ok, bracket restart. I'll be doing it in the Official NAR AI tournament arena.
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The Prodigy has no weapon.
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It's becoming apparent very few people know how AW's work, myself included.
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Returning from a mouse-battery related haitus to rant.
If you build a AW flipper, you are an idiot or are derping on purpose. No Arena that isn't a tapletop allows OOTA's on AW's. The power is to small. Also, most AW designs are invertable at the very least. Intruder is the worst AW bot that isn't my non inverable P-O-S that can't even go a match without Immobalizing itself on it's chassis.
Also, The fact terminus is near undefeated suggests half the goddamn subweights built for NAR AI aren't even tested in the first place. Hell, ONE BOT FACES THE WRONG WAY, and ANOTHER HAS NO WEAPON.
BEFORE YOU SUBMIT YOUR DAMN BOTS, REMEMBER THE DAMN "COMPETANCE" RULE! I.E. ARE YOU GODDAMN SMART ENOUGH TO REMEMBER TONOT DELETEYOUR MAIN WEAPON FROM YOUR DAMN BOT BEFORE YOU SUBMIT?
ARE YOU SMART ENOUGH TO NOT FAIL AT MATH*PY?
HAVE YOU EVEN TESTED YOUR BOT? DID YOU JUST THROW WHATEVER FITS TILL THE WEIGHT LIMIT WAS MET?
DID YOU!?
ARRRRGH
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The point was that Red Zone was a poker/flipper team. As I doubt I can build an antweight poker, i built an antweight flipper. It was crap. I therefore passed to something else. And to be honest, I couldn't care less about antweights.
I may make it a fast weaponless wedge.
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The point was that Red Zone was a poker/flipper team. As I doubt I can build an antweight poker, i built an antweight flipper. It was crap. I therefore passed to something else. And to be honest, I couldn't care less about antweights.
I may make it a fast weaponless wedge.
You could easily make it a rammer or wammer.
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Ok, enough AW tomfoolery.
I'll do this in my own time, but it's taking too long, so I'll be doing segment 2 of the MW bracket.
http://challonge.com/reht7ry (http://challonge.com/reht7ry)
All future segments are going to be 7 bots each, with one bot going through. This applies to all weights but AW which was stupidly not done that way.
So this bracket includes Stormraiders, Scoot or Die 2, the bots from BBEANS and Ill Omen, duking it out with each other.
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GO HAZCOOOON
Also Zephyr is a gimmick bot. Don't be surprised if it fails. Though maybe I should change weapons...
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http://challonge.com/reokgg (http://challonge.com/reokgg)
Segment 3.
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OK after a long haitus I just cmpleted segment 3.
Red Drake 4, Hazardus Contraption, Shockwave 2, Slashback 4, Ronin and Ripblade IV are good. Really good.
Did half these submissions get tested? I mean, What the ****? HazCon would have had it's as kicked if it was stock because there are improvements there.
IF NOBODY CAN BEAT THE ABOVE BOTS DON'T SUBMIT THEM TO NAR AI. This goes for me too. I'm embarassed as you should be.
Now, Most of the SnS should be higher. Hot spot should have 2nd place in it's segment. The BBEANS arena is terrible for SnS becuse there in not enough space to recover for them. Is there any large arena what has a central hazard to prevent boxrushing?
I'll do more segments because I can.
Also, I had a very interesting idea for a tournament. I'll post that elsewhere.
Edit: For a gimmick bot, quite a few of them are pretty good. I mean Really good. Add a Cattcher on Zephyr and I will bet money that it will be a top tier threat to everything that beat it, HANDS DOWN.
Fix Insomnia's self righting issues and it will destry sh**.
Add soething to samuri to prevent people flying over it and to help it's self righting and it will kill everything it gets under.
Just sayin', nary. <3
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Now, Most of the SnS should be higher. Hot spot should have 2nd place in it's segment. The BBEANS arena is terrible for SnS becuse there in not enough space to recover for them. Is there any large arena what has a central hazard to prevent boxrushing?
Blade Arena
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Now, Most of the SnS should be higher. Hot spot should have 2nd place in it's segment. The BBEANS arena is terrible for SnS becuse there in not enough space to recover for them. Is there any large arena what has a central hazard to prevent boxrushing?
Blade Arena
... Without a sh** hazard?
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Would the hazards on in the combat arena be enough to prevent a boxrush?
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Yes.
It's cool to see you continuing this, I need similar feedback to rebuild bots.
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Would the hazards on in the combat arena be enough to prevent a boxrush?
Get Out.
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What?
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He was just saying that obviously the hazards in the combat arena were enough to prevent a boxrush, that it is extremely easy to watch so in a fast bot vs fast bot ai fight in the hazards-on combat arena, and that you should know that at your level of experience in Ra2.
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I don't know too much about AI, maybe they just drive straight over. It's all cool though.
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He was just saying that obviously the hazards in the combat arena were enough to prevent a boxrush, that it is extremely easy to watch so in a fast bot vs fast bot ai fight in the hazards-on combat arena, and that you should know that at your level of experience in Ra2.
The way you AIed it results in the bots in player 1's position slightly turning to avoid the spike traps and the bot in player 2's position boxrushing.
So combat arena is actually the worst map.
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So the AI does not recognize the saws as weapons? In which case, the Electric Arena might work. Unless you think the hazard is too big.
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Combat arena hazardless is the best arena.
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He says he wants no oppurtunity for box rush though.
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I want more feedback on the bots; this interests me greatly.