gametechmods
Robot Arena Matches => Tournaments => Tournament Archives => Topic started by: russian roulette on June 24, 2011, 02:21:20 PM
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Everyone should know I already have bad ideas about freezie's tournament, now we know he accepted multiple "Placeholder Bots" not only is this cheating other people who happen to be more productive out of a tournament, but also is showing how people take competition. I would like to create a ban on placeholder's, if you are too lazy to build a bot in advance or are too lazy to build a bot before all entries are in then that sucks for you. I think we'd all benefit from this.
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So if we still allow updating of bots, how does the host distinguish between actual entries and placeholders?
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So if we still allow updating of bots, how does the host distinguish between actual entries and placeholders?
In my eyes, if there are minor fixes or rearrangements of any kind, then it is acceptable. I'm talking about sending in a blank chassis to ensure a spot in the competition.
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So if we still allow updating of bots, how does the host distinguish between actual entries and placeholders?
How about this - no baseplate components (except batteries & control boards) can be added subsequent revisions, and you can't reshape the chassis? That way, even the "placeholder" bot will show evidence that the person was intent on building something with a functioning drive and weapons system.
I didn't see the whole saga in the "Battlebots" thread but at the moment it looks like Freeziez set aside the 16th slot for everyone who submitted a placeholder bot, and whoever gets theirs in first is the one who gets to be in the tourney. If that's the case, that could be a viable system too.
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he had 2 placeholders. GF and FPX. But then S_M pointed out that he won a slot of frez next tourney (Hells Kittchen prize) and now the last place is for one of those two.
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How about this - no baseplate components (except batteries & control boards) can be added subsequent revisions, and you can't reshape the chassis? That way, even the "placeholder" bot will show evidence that the person was intent on building something with a functioning drive and weapons system.
I agree on reshaped chassis shouldn't be updated. But I believe if you want to move internals to make it more combat effective, then it's perfectly fine.
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he had 2 placeholders. GF and FPX. But then S_M pointed out that he won a slot of frez next tourney (Hells Kittchen prize) and now the last place is for one of those two.
Well if that's the case, I'll be willing to forfeit my place to let him enter.
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there`s still FPX so that wouldn`t make much sense. I would say just build your bot but for upcomming tourneys a new rule should count
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Ban
And GF & FOTEPX should bothe be taken out of Freez's tourney IMO
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How about this - no baseplate components (except batteries & control boards) can be added subsequent revisions, and you can't reshape the chassis? That way, even the "placeholder" bot will show evidence that the person was intent on building something with a functioning drive and weapons system.
I agree on reshaped chassis shouldn't be updated. But I believe if you want to move internals to make it more combat effective, then it's perfectly fine.
Oh yeah, moving them is fine it's just that if you decide you want more wheels, or to change your weapon type then you're out of luck I was considering adding "you can't remove baseplate components either" but I thought that might have been too excessive. Bottom line is this, we're shooting for a rule set that encourages people not to submit their robots until they're completely happy with them.
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Ban
And GF & FOTEPX should bothe be taken out of Freez's tourney IMO
Who said you could speak?
I already said I'm willing to forfeit if S_M wants to enter.
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Ban. But I guess we can let GF and FOTEPX go.
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I just think that it would be better if you could only enter if you have built your bot already.
Not sure about updating them though.
If the hoster thinks it's just a placeholder then they wont accept it, etc...
Just an idea :P
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How about this - no baseplate components (except batteries & control boards) can be added subsequent revisions, and you can't reshape the chassis? That way, even the "placeholder" bot will show evidence that the person was intent on building something with a functioning drive and weapons system.
I agree on reshaped chassis shouldn't be updated. But I believe if you want to move internals to make it more combat effective, then it's perfectly fine.
Oh yeah, moving them is fine it's just that if you decide you want more wheels, or to change your weapon type then you're out of luck. We're shooting for a rule set that encourages people not to submit their robots until they're completely happy with them.
I'm fine with this idea. I see minor updates as changes to the robot that do not significantly alter the way it functions. Swapping from irons to maces, for example, would be fine in my view. Adding wheels or changing the weapon system would be out of line, I reckon.
On the subject of GF anf FOTEPX, if they don't actually have a proper entry for the tourney, then I think S_M should be allowed to enter in their place. He did win the spot in freeziez' next tourney, it's just that he forgot about it. And if he does have an entrant, then I don't think there's much we can do to stop him, really.
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How about this - no baseplate components (except batteries & control boards) can be added subsequent revisions, and you can't reshape the chassis? That way, even the "placeholder" bot will show evidence that the person was intent on building something with a functioning drive and weapons system.
I agree on reshaped chassis shouldn't be updated. But I believe if you want to move internals to make it more combat effective, then it's perfectly fine.
Oh yeah, moving them is fine it's just that if you decide you want more wheels, or to change your weapon type then you're out of luck. We're shooting for a rule set that encourages people not to submit their robots until they're completely happy with them.
I'm fine with this idea. I see minor updates as changes to the robot that do not significantly alter the way it functions. Swapping from irons to maces, for example, would be fine in my view. Adding wheels or changing the weapon system would be out of line, I reckon.
On the subject of GF anf FOTEPX, if they don't actually have a proper entry for the tourney, then I think S_M should be allowed to enter in their place. He did win the spot in freeziez' next tourney, it's just that he forgot about it. And if he does have an entrant, then I don't think there's much we can do to stop him, really.
Hence. He can have my spot.
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S_M already has a spot. it`s about you or FPX to enter. the faster one of you two will get the last spot
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S_M already has a spot. it`s about you or FPX to enter. the faster one of you two will get the last spot
Foxtop can have it. I don't want to enter if noone else wants me to.
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I would like you to but while you`re whining FPX is already building his entry
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If you want to enter then do it.
Besides, the quicker somebody someone sends, the quicker they can get on with their tournament.
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S_M already has a spot. it`s about you or FPX to enter. the faster one of you two will get the last spot
Foxtop can have it. I don't want to enter if noone else wants me to.
GOD DAMN IT ENTER THE F***ING TOURNEMENT, WHO GIVES DAMN IF THEY DONT WANT YOU TO
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I would like you to but while you`re whining FPX is already building his entry
I've got my working prototype ready. Is it OK if I sent that to Snow Miser, and update it again later? It should be OK in the fact that it actually works.
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S_M already has a spot. it`s about you or FPX to enter. the faster one of you two will get the last spot
Foxtop can have it. I don't want to enter if noone else wants me to.
GOD DAMN IT ENTER THE F***ING TOURNEMENT, WHO GIVES DAMN IF THEY DONT WANT YOU TO
lol calm down.
And let him decide if he wants do enter or not, it's his choice.
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I voted that they should be banned.
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In my opinion, a) this has gone a little wild and shouldn't be a 'big' thing, but due to the nature of these boards and people's reactions, it has. So b) I'm of the opinion that in these small 16 bot tournaments, placeholders shouldn't be allowed, as it slows down the progress of the signups and causes aggro with those unable to enter. It's maybe the host's discretion if reserved spots are allowed, but for somethign that you know will fill up quickly they're not required.
However, I do have a few more thoughts:
- In the case of Frieezez tournament, honestly the competition was talked about for a LONG time before it finally got accepted. There was a current discussion in that thread of people getting bots ready and for a while it was just a matter of 'when' it'd go to signups. If you were 'surprised' that signups opened 'suddenly' and you didn't have time to get a bot ready, then frankly, read the forums more.
- IF there is a bona-fide reason why you would need to send a placeholder in, send something in that, if worst came to worst, could participate in the tournament, if not your preferred bot. If you send a bot that you know you don't want to compete, or that it could not compete, don't send it in. Let others have the spot, and get ready for next time.
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And GF & FOTEPX should bothe be taken out of Freez's tourney IMO
No. We never established that placeholder bots weren't to be allowed, so all current tournaments should go unchanged.
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S_M already has a spot. it`s about you or FPX to enter. the faster one of you two will get the last spot
Foxtop can have it. I don't want to enter if noone else wants me to.
GOD DAMN IT ENTER THE F***ING TOURNEMENT, WHO GIVES DAMN IF THEY DONT WANT YOU TO
Calm the fudge down kid.
EDIT:
Resized 'cause it was annoying to look at.
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RR, I think you should stop whining.
- FOTEPX forfeited his place to GF93, he PM'd me about it, I'm sorry I couldn't tell you guys earlier, I was away.
- GF93 honestly sent in a valid bot before, but he said he wanted to update it. So I gave him 3 days.
- Garvin...really? Really?
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RR, I think you should stop whining.
- FOTEPX forfeited his place to GF93, he PM'd me about it, I'm sorry I couldn't tell you guys earlier, I was away. (That's Your Fault)
- GF93 honestly sent in a valid bot before, but he said he wanted to update it. So I gave him 3 days. (He said it was a placeholder)
- Garvin...really? Really? (Don't listen to him)
Opinions aren't really considered whining freez, there is a dedicated "no" key if you want to whine about my opinions.
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RR, I think you should stop whining.
- FOTEPX forfeited his place to GF93, he PM'd me about it, I'm sorry I couldn't tell you guys earlier, I was away. (That's Your Fault)
- GF93 honestly sent in a valid bot before, but he said he wanted to update it. So I gave him 3 days. (He said it was a placeholder)
- Garvin...really? Really? (Don't listen to him)
Opinions aren't really considered whining freez, there is a dedicated "no" key if you want to whine about my opinions.
Opinions aren't considered whining, RR. :p
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THIS THREAD IS POINTLESS! JUST GET THE ******* TOURNEMENT STARTED! WHO GIVES DAMN IF GF FORFITED :rage
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THIS THREAD IS POINTLESS! JUST GET THE ******* TOURNEMENT STARTED! WHO GIVES DAMN IF GF FORFITED :rage
Hold on there, bucko, relax.
GF93 didn't forefeit his place, check the BattleBots thread.
I have to for GF to send his bot before I can get the tournament started.
Stop using caps
Stop using large letters
This thread does need to be locked though.
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This thread does need to be locked though.
Why, because you made a mistake and majority voted for banning placeholders?
Sometimes I wonder where this forum is going.
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THIS THREAD IS POINTLESS! JUST GET THE ******* TOURNEMENT STARTED! WHO GIVES DAMN IF GF FORFITED :rage
Hold on there, bucko, relax.
GF93 didn't forefeit his place, check the BattleBots thread.
I have to for GF to send his bot before I can get the tournament started.
Stop using caps
Stop using large letters
This thread does need to be locked though.
Im not even sure what happened, I just want the tournement to get going.
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This thread does need to be locked though.
Why, because you made a mistake and majority voted for banning placeholders?
Sometimes I wonder where this forum is going.
It's going down the drain because people like you take the forum way to seriously.
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Im not even sure what happened, I just want the tournement to get going.
There is a separate thread for that you know.
It's going down the drain because people like you take the forum way to seriously.
Not a legitimate reason to lock it.
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Today is a good Garin Pulling Day. I havnt pulled a Garvin in a LONG time. ;)
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THIS THREAD IS POINTLESS! JUST GET THE ******* TOURNEMENT STARTED! WHO GIVES DAMN IF GF FORFITED :rage
Hold on there, bucko, relax.
GF93 didn't forefeit his place, check the BattleBots thread.
I have to for GF to send his bot before I can get the tournament started.
Stop using caps
Stop using large letters
This thread does need to be locked though.
Im not even sure what happened, I just want the tournement to get going.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1lfSzgcAw#)
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I guess you both should clam down.
GTG: this will not help to get the tourney started since we can send updates till sunday.
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This is what happens when people don't take the forum seriously... Please Garvin, stay on topic.
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And stop whining.
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GTG: this will not help to get the tourney started since we can send updates till sunday.
No, just GF93. if he doesn't send his bot by the end of Sunday, someone else can take his place.
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And GF & FOTEPX should bothe be taken out of Freez's tourney IMO
No. We never established that placeholder bots weren't to be allowed, so all current tournaments should go unchanged.
Disagree.
Placeholder don't meet the other requirements. Take this one for example
RULES
- DSL HW
- BattleBox 2.0 arena
- 16 entries
- 3 minute matches
- Realistic Rule applies very strongly
- No NARmour
- 1 Havok restart, 2nd time eliminated
- No cheatbot2
- No BFE, AAM, Trov Glitch, NCR glitch, or any glitch that makes the bot unrealistic
- Replicas are NOT allowed
- Cannot use DSA (why would you?)
- Walkers and shufflers can we
The only valid "placeholder" then would be a bot that meets all those requirements, and can participate in the tournament even without update. An empty chassis is clearly not a DSL HW Bot.
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...he`s right O.o :D
edit: also I guess non of both changed the chassis to something else than DSA. (Also I guess there`s an empty chassis out there. that would make it a raplica :p )
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HE SENT ME A VALID BOT MEETING ALL THOSE REQUIREMENTS. IT WAS AN HS. IT WAS CALLED "PLACEHOLDER". HOWEVER, HE WANTED TO UPDATE IT INTO A DRUM, SO HE CONTACTED ME AND I GAVE HIM 3 DAYS. AM I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH?
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HE SENT ME A VALID BOT MEETING ALL THOSE REQUIREMENTS. IT WAS AN HS. IT WAS CALLED "PLACEHOLDER". HOWEVER, HE WANTED TO UPDATE IT INTO A DRUM, SO HE CONTACTED ME AND I GAVE HIM 3 DAYS. AM I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH?
Dude, calm your tits.
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HE SENT ME A VALID BOT MEETING ALL THOSE REQUIREMENTS. IT WAS AN HS. IT WAS CALLED "PLACEHOLDER". HOWEVER, HE WANTED TO UPDATE IT INTO A DRUM, SO HE CONTACTED ME AND I GAVE HIM 3 DAYS. AM I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH?
Dude, calm your tits.
GOD DAMN IT ENTER THE *BLOODY* TOURNEMENT, WHO GIVES DAMN IF THEY DONT WANT YOU TO
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It's just that I've said that about 5 times and I've just been brushed aside. Caps Lock makes things noticeable.
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Who said you could speak?
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I guess everything's in quotes now.
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It's just that I've said that about 5 times and I've just been brushed aside. Caps Lock makes things noticeable.
Stop using caps
Stop using large letters
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It's just that I've said that about 5 times and I've just been brushed aside. Caps Lock makes things noticeable.
Stop using caps
Stop using large letters
But I'm trying to make a statement, you were just yelling.
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Well if that's the case
stop whining.
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yelling.
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HE SENT ME A VALID BOT MEETING ALL THOSE REQUIREMENTS. IT WAS AN HS. IT WAS CALLED "PLACEHOLDER". HOWEVER, HE WANTED TO UPDATE IT INTO A DRUM, SO HE CONTACTED ME AND I GAVE HIM 3 DAYS. AM I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH?
I wasn't talking about this case in specific, I am talking about the concept of placeholders in general.
In this case, the person fully admitting that the bot he send is not the bot he intends to use. This means that the bot he send is not an entry to begin with, and therefore should not take up a slot.
The distinction between a placeholder and a real entry will be rather it is still the same bot after the update. If the bot is changed to the point where it's clearly not the same by the average observer, then it is a placeholder.
I am not trying to make a call about your decision. This is a topic on placeholder bot in general, and I am simply expressing my views toward it.
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HE SENT ME A VALID BOT MEETING ALL THOSE REQUIREMENTS. IT WAS AN HS. IT WAS CALLED "PLACEHOLDER". HOWEVER, HE WANTED TO UPDATE IT INTO A DRUM, SO HE CONTACTED ME AND I GAVE HIM 3 DAYS. AM I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH?
I wasn't talking about this case in specific, I am talking about the concept of placeholders in general.
In this case, the person fully admitting that the bot he send is not the bot he intends to use. This means that the bot he send is not an entry to begin with, and therefore should not take up a slot.
The distinction between a placeholder and a real entry will be rather it is still the same bot after the update. If the bot is changed to the point where it's clearly not the same by the average observer, then it is a placeholder.
I am not trying to make a call about your decision. This is a topic on placeholder bot in general, and I am simply expressing my views toward it.
I liked it better when people were dumb. :P
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So if a robot is sent, and an update submitted that clearly bears no resemblance to the original bot, does the tournament host then have the right to reject the update?
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The only valid "placeholder" then would be a bot that meets all those requirements, and can participate in the tournament even without update. An empty chassis is clearly not a DSL HW Bot.
I was making the assumption that the ONLY reason the bot sent wasn't valid was because it was a placeholder bot, not that it didn't even make the weight limit requirements.
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Well this got out of hand fast
First
We went to the effort of making a specific discussion topic pinned up the top so this section is left for only actual tournament threads yet you decided to ignore that.
Second
If a robot meets ALL of the rules, then it takes a place
If a robot DOES NOT meet ALL of the rules, then it doesnt gain a place in the tournament
If any robots in the sign ups list are marked with a problem, they must be shuffled down the list every time there is a new entrant, It is the entrants responsibility to ensure the robot fits the ruleset.
This applys to every NEW tournament from this date.