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Robot Arena Matches => Tournaments => Tournament Archives => Topic started by: R1885 on December 20, 2010, 11:28:17 PM

Title: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: R1885 on December 20, 2010, 11:28:17 PM
I have to admit it, I hate wedges. The angle, the center of gravity, what its made from, how much weight you need, its all the tip of the ice berg really.
And no matter how well you built that wedge, its always going to be beaten by another wedge, and you might spring off the wall or the other guys inferior wedge.

So I would like to take that all out of the equation.

In this tournament, your goal is innovative designs and sportsman like conduct, not ripping your opponents to shreds.

General body of this is:

DSL heavy weight

16 entry, single elimination, best two out of three

Realistic rules, of course

No unrealistic glitches, no BFF, no burst boosting, no glitches period

Rules that only work to this tournament:

NO WEDGE SHAPES, NO PANELS THAT ARE FLUSH TO THE GROUND, NOTHING THAT CAN GET UNDER THE OTHER ROBOT. This includes, but not limited to:

Excessively powerful weapons are not allowed(If you kill your opponent, you lose that match!)

No SnS

If you can build a pop up without a wedge, then by all means, be my guest

Flippers must be made using only non damaging components(must also fallow the no wedges rule as well)

If building a VS, it must only spin downwards

No flails


No flamethrowers


No suicide bots, if I can whack your bot and do over a quarter of its health worth of damage, it will be disqualified(Don't worry, it's going to somthing reasonable like a 70 kilo hammer)

It may sound boring, but its more like a gateway tournament, built to ease newer players into AI tournaments, while also challenging older players into restrictions they haven't had in a long time.
Remember, this is only a discussion, not a sign-up. I don't know if this will make it.
Oh, and FYI, yes I can AI the bots and Record the videos.
Feel free to discuss!
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Sparkey98 on December 20, 2010, 11:34:49 PM
I'll enter.


*disapeers*
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: JoeBlo on December 20, 2010, 11:51:03 PM
sounds like robot bumper cars to me

you should use a table top arena otherwise I feel 2 stock AW robots would put on a better show
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on December 21, 2010, 12:07:54 AM
What about slightly-tapered chassis shapes?  One that are technically wedges but too steep to be any good.  Are they allowed?

Also, you might want to relax that "if you destroy your opponent you lose" rule because I'm thinking I could just enter a huge plastic box and win every match by default
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Jonzu95 on December 21, 2010, 12:10:04 AM
HW? No Thanks.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: 123savethewhales on December 21, 2010, 12:34:10 AM
Quote
Excessively powerful weapons are not allowed(If you kill your opponent, you lose that match!)

Lol so this tournament is about how to get yourself killed?  Use double side aluminum maximize the likelihood of your chassis getting hit by the enemy?  Spam flamethrowers to get scores but not kill?

I don't like the sound of this at all.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: SteveM4 on December 21, 2010, 02:22:25 AM
Sounds to me that we are re-creating Robot Wars series 1. Boxes and small things with hammers.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Scorpion on December 21, 2010, 02:26:55 AM
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everybody else here.
Howwever, having a tourney where wedges are banned, that sounds like an absolutely amazing idea that only a god could come up with  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Vertigo on December 21, 2010, 02:35:30 AM
I would just limit the tourney to no metal hinge, skirt hinge, MKB wedges

Some of the rules sound OTT
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Sparkey98 on December 21, 2010, 02:44:25 AM
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everybody else here.
Howwever, having a tourney where wedges are banned, that sounds like an absolutely amazing idea that only a god could come up with  :mrgreen:

I can build saws withouth wedges :D
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Scorpion on December 21, 2010, 02:47:16 AM
I was referencing my own tournament idea that everybody has probably forgotten about due to it not being posted in for a while  :ermm:
I'm hoping that's due to the idea being so perfect that nobody had anything left to say about itand that when we get to voting, everybody will suddenly remember again  :laughing
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Thyrus on December 21, 2010, 06:41:12 AM
I like R1885` RL tourneys .hope this doesn`t takes as long as "IRL" if this ever happens
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Naryar on December 21, 2010, 06:48:37 AM
I don't know if this is a good idea or a awful one
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: NFX on December 21, 2010, 07:36:16 AM
I like the idea, but I reckon some of the rules might need a little bit of fine-tuning. If this does get off the ground, I'm probably entering Valid Query 3.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: SKBT on December 21, 2010, 08:20:49 AM
Hmm sounds like the Sportsman Class

From the 2010 RFL Rule Set
Quote
30-lb Sportsman Class1. A 30-lb robot may be entered in the “Sportsman” class if it complies with the additional rules in this section. Any 30-lb robot may be entered in the “standard” 30-lb class.
2.2.1. Intent. The intent of the Sportsman Class is to encourage novel designs and driving ability. The focus of this class is fun and creativity, not the annihilation of your opponent. Robots must comply with both the letter and spirit of these rules to qualify for this class.
2.2.2. Active Weapon Required. Sportsman class robots must have an active weapon. This is defined as a weapon or device intended for use in attacking the opponent, independent of the robot drive train. These include but are not limited to lifters, hammers, clamps, flame weapons and spinning weapons (within the limitations specified in 2.2.3)
2.2.3. Limitations on Spinning Weapons. Spinning weapons [are allowed] at this event. [Enter any additional restrictions or explanatory text regarding limitations here.] If allowed, weapons that can rotate continuously are permitted if and only if the edge/tip velocity does not exceed 500 surface feet per minute (SFM). Weapon SFM will be determined by tachometer prior to the start of the event using this formula:
SFM = RPM * πD
Flywheels and other spinning parts internal to the robot are allowed without limit, but may not act directly as weapons. For example, a flywheel-powered hammer or axe would be legal if the weapon arm did not move more than 360 degrees.
2.2.4. No Wedges. A “wedge” is any part of a robot that in any position is capable of elevating a flat sided box with ¼” of ground clearance more than ½” off the floor simply by sliding the wedge under the box when the robot in question is in any “normal” driving positions e.g. with its wheels on the floor.
2.2.4.1. Large plates extending from the robot that are flat or nearly flat to the floor are not allowed.
2.2.4.2. Other static devices which have the purpose of removing the opponent‟s wheels from the arena floor are not allowed.
2.2.5. Lifting, Flipping and Grabbing Weapons. An articulated “spatula”, parallel to the floor is allowed, provided that:
 It complies with the “no wedge” rule (2.2.4) and
 It is no more than ¼ the width of the robot (as measured across the wheels at their widest point) and
 It extends no more than 6” from the front edge of the robot.
2.2.6. Excessively Destructive Weapons. Weapons deemed too destructive by virtue of their mass, MOI or other characteristics may be further limited or disallowed at the discretion of the event. Please contact the event organizer concerning your design to avoid problems.
2.2.7. Standard RFL Rules Apply. Unless otherwise stated, all other standard RFL rules will apply. This includes walkers and their weight bonuses. However, a walker that uses the weight bonus for a spinning (or other) weapon that is too destructive will be disqualified.1

Might be interesting might not. It all depends on who enters.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: GoldenFox93 on December 21, 2010, 08:52:14 AM
This sounds interesting. If it goes ahead, maybe I'll consider entering   :P
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: cephalopod on December 21, 2010, 10:06:09 AM
I liked the title. Then I saw you can't kill things or have powerful weapons and instantly fell out of love. What's the point, like others say, you might as well get yourself killed.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Stagfish on December 21, 2010, 10:29:06 AM
*Plans on entering a suicide bot*
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: GoldenFox93 on December 21, 2010, 10:30:29 AM
Same here. Maybe I'll enter a joke bot for the fun of it.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: FOTEPX on December 21, 2010, 10:38:54 AM
Heh, this will be wierd.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Badnik96 on December 21, 2010, 02:47:37 PM
Liked it until I noticed the if you kill your opponent you lose and VS's must spin downwards rules.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Clickbeetle on December 26, 2010, 03:32:31 PM
This could be a good tournament idea but it needs some refinement.


First of all, the "if you kill your opponent you lose" rule has to go.  Otherwise you would get suicide bots and flamethrower spam.


There are better ways to enforce weapons that are not overly destructive.  For example, you could say "no weapons in close proximity to each other so that they hit at the same time".  So you can't have 2 razors right next to each other, like on a popup or shell spinner--they must be replaced by a single weapon such as a spike strip.  An exception could be made for weapons 40 kgs and heavier, which can't be replaced by a single heavier weapon as the heaviest weapon is the 70 kg hammer.  So a rammer with a bunch of 50 kg hammers in the front would be allowed.


Or you could limit spinning weapon weight.  Say, the total weight of spin motors plus anything attached to them (excluding drive and wheels) cannot exceed 250 kgs.  So you can use a 6-mag gearbox but you only get to put 100 kgs of weapons on it, and the dual Perm might as well be useless.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: R1885 on December 30, 2010, 08:22:36 PM
You guys are missing the point. This tournament is not about destroying the other guys in the most brutal way possible, its about seeing a good fight fight through and through. I have seen an annoying tendency for bots that took MANY hour and look so cool and unique, only for them to be destroyed by a wave of iron spikes. I honestly don't see how entertaining it is to see these well thought out bots loose by a fluke.

SKBT hit the head of the nail. Its not about needless destruction, its about building cool, unique robots, not mindless destruction(Kinda hypocritical form someone who normally enters bots he had on his game for months at a time.)
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Hydro on December 30, 2010, 08:42:15 PM
I like the idea, minus the "you can't kill your opponent" rule.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Scorpion on December 31, 2010, 02:50:48 AM
Yeah, I think I get this now, it's supposed to be more of a realistic bot tourney right?
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Hard Bot on January 05, 2011, 10:15:29 AM
Don't forget shell spinners with a wedged shell!
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Hard Bot on January 05, 2011, 10:18:10 AM
And make sure that bot type wedge is not allowed.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: SteveM4 on January 05, 2011, 10:21:01 AM
Ooh, this thing exists!

I thought it was covered by the sands of time.

Is this still happening?
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Clickbeetle on January 06, 2011, 01:09:07 AM
You guys are missing the point. This tournament is not about destroying the other guys in the most brutal way possible, its about seeing a good fight fight through and through. I have seen an annoying tendency for bots that took MANY hour and look so cool and unique, only for them to be destroyed by a wave of iron spikes. I honestly don't see how entertaining it is to see these well thought out bots loose by a fluke.

SKBT hit the head of the nail. Its not about needless destruction, its about building cool, unique robots, not mindless destruction(Kinda hypocritical form someone who normally enters bots he had on his game for months at a time.)


Make a rule that says bots must be cool and/or original and not suicidal or overly destructive?


Would be very subjective and hard for builders to know whether or not their bot will be allowed beforehand, but it could solve a lot of problems.


Also ban flamethrowers?  Since even one flamethrower against a flameless opponent would kind of be an insta-win.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: R1885 on January 12, 2011, 08:07:49 PM
And make sure that bot type wedge is not allowed.
Not trying to sound mean, but I already had made a rule that all wedge shapes were banned, regardless of what form it was in, I made that clear in the first post.


@Click: I don't know if I should ban flamethrowers, but bots that are built to be suicidal are going to be banned,  I just don't know the best way to do so.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Badnik96 on January 13, 2011, 10:10:23 AM
What if you put a restriction on weapons? Like a 150kg maximum or something. 15 Irons ain't much on a HW.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: martymidget on January 13, 2011, 02:40:41 PM
30 DS teeth could leave a dent in something though. :P
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Badnik96 on January 13, 2011, 06:08:03 PM
...And maybe no weapons under 10 KG. (DSL Bars excepted since they deal virtually no damage but they still count as weapons)
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Clickbeetle on January 13, 2011, 08:35:47 PM
And make sure that bot type wedge is not allowed.
Not trying to sound mean, but I already had made a rule that all wedge shapes were banned, regardless of what form it was in, I made that clear in the first post.


@Click: I don't know if I should ban flamethrowers, but bots that are built to be suicidal are going to be banned,  I just don't know the best way to do so.


The best way is probably to just be subjective about it.  I can't think of any way to make a set of specific rules that define what a suicidal bot is and what a too-powerful bot is, and even if you did make rules there would probably be countless loopholes to exploit.


So I would suggest you just say "no suicide bots, and bots cannot be too powerful" or something similar.  When you get bots, look at them and decide in each case whether to allow it or not, and if not, tell the builder what needs to change.


The important thing is just for everyone to keep in mind the spirit of the tournament.  Casual, sportsmanlike, a good place to try out new and cool-looking designs without worrying about winning or entering a "failbot".  As long as everyone thinks like that, the tournament should work.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: MikeNCR on January 13, 2011, 09:02:44 PM
I know it's a bit off from what your original idea is, but a tourney following sportsman (no wedges, no high energy spinners) rules could be interesting.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: R1885 on May 21, 2011, 12:17:08 PM
I've refined the rules a little bit, I think it's good to run.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Clickbeetle on May 22, 2011, 02:50:57 PM
What arena will it be in?


I still don't like the rule that you lose if you KO your opponent, but it seems the tournament could at least work as planned now that you ban suicide bots and flamethrowers.  Basically the goal will be to score the most points without scoring a KO, which will be tricky.


A What Sheck Spinner? type design would probably do well.


Idea: you could judge matches based on aggression, controlling the match, damage, etc. like in real robotics competitions, instead of using RA2's points system.  Then you could make a bot with a really weak hammer or something, and while it wouldn't score many points if any, it would count toward aggression or whatever.  While a really slow pusher with a wall of spikes would probably win on points, but lose on a human judging system.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: GarvinTheGreat on May 23, 2011, 04:44:56 PM
Too many rules.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: MikeNCR on June 28, 2011, 01:05:51 PM
Is this going to move to signups any time soon?
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on June 28, 2011, 01:07:08 PM
I sent R1885 a PM and he replied to it...
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Vertigo on June 28, 2011, 01:28:23 PM
He had to post signups by the 26th, he's too late D:
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: R1885 on June 28, 2011, 01:46:22 PM
Truth of the mater is that I honestly lost the inspiration to fallow through, I thought it was going to be closed after the first failed attempt.
The guy behind me in the voting can have my spot, I really don't want to continue with this, I have other ideas I want to do, and lets face it, this would not be a very fun tourney to watch with basically nothing happening.
Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I really have no energy to go through with this, If I'm going to be banned from making another tournament, then so be it.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Vertigo on June 28, 2011, 01:47:18 PM
That's a first
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: Urjak on June 28, 2011, 02:04:13 PM
Hmmm... well I guess if someone was going t bail this is the best time to do so.
Title: Re: No More Wedges Tournament Idea, Good idea?
Post by: GroudonRobotWars on June 28, 2011, 06:11:04 PM
So.... What? Ribbs is giving my tournament the spot, instead of his. Or would I have to wait till next poll?