gametechmods
Robot Arena Matches => Tournaments => Tournament Archives => Topic started by: 09090901 on August 20, 2017, 02:26:22 AM
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Since we're nearing the 1 year mark of the first official tournament, we might as well at least discuss the prospect of a sequel.
Discuss what metas, format, or pretty much any ideas you'd like to see. Currently we have absolutely zero planning or preperations done right now, so you're ideas are as good as ours.
I know the last GTMCS left a bad taste in the majority of entrants, so please come forward with what you think would make the tournament a bigger success. Alternatively, feel free to state why you think we shouldn't host another official tournament or if we should look into another form of an official league.
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getting whatever schlick was supposed to send the prizes to do so would be a good start
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getting whatever schlick was supposed to send the prizes to do so would be a good start
Well, you made the prizes for the first tournament and I not 100% sure if the winners did receive any of the prizes apart from the custom rank they won. They might of received the prizes, but I never heard anything about them using them or receiving them.
Also, if you (Geice or someone else) were to run another GTMCS, not only I would like to see what Yugitom had planned from the last time like the planned rumbles including the SFTW rumble. But I have thought of some ideas for the meta-games which doesn't include IRL: DSL-S Lightweight, Ironforge-S MW and Stock HW.
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make it like ufc where someone gets a title and nobody else can get it cause he left the forums
in all seriousness, i think the forums challenge board champions should be integrated, ie ty4er should be the official stock champ etc.
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If there is a second tournament, will there be seeds or will it randomize, and who is going to host, now that Thrackerzod has disappeared out of the blue?
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I am still hoping that there can be some kind of results archive created for the first tournament; it was one of my favourite things about BBEANS. On a private website, a dedicated GTMCS wiki, or the GTM homepage there could be the completed brackets, award winners, mathematical standings, and maybe a short blurb on each winner's path to the trophy. There needs to be a legacy attached to it all; otherwise it feels like just another GTM tournament come and gone.
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For such a 'prestigious' tournament (or as close as an RA2 tournament can get, at least), I think we should use a GSL or at least Swiss format with group stages instead of a straight double elim bracket. I also think nobody gives a sh** about the prizes, being random custom components only usable by a single person. I'd also like to see some less serious side tournaments, like Sumo.
I know you've mentioned that you're struggling to find hosts; I'd probably be available to host, if you trust me enough. I'd like to start uni and see how that affects my free time before I commit to anything, though.
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DSL-IRL HW, because Robot wars & Battlebots, also Retooled was a mistake
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DSL-IRL HW, because Robot wars & Battlebots, also Retooled was a mistake
Look TGM. I know that this was said back in the first thread that I looked over if you don't remember, but I remember that some users have been saying that they don't want IRL building in an official tournament. For the main reason being the sheer amount of IRL tournaments that happen around the time, as well as today with GTM Robogames, the sheer increase in IRL builders/users and the over dominants of IRL building as a whole . If the board uses IRL constantly in tournaments and in an forum official tournament , the whole forum will just be a swamp full of IRL building and kills the variety of many of the Meta-games including Stock. So by promoting other classes, it add the variety and encourages people to build into different games and meta classes before being consumed by IRL Bot building. This may be different with Geice and he may allow it, but I doubt some non-IRL building users will want IRL in a meta-game class for this tournament.
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we really do need an official tournament. nothing gets the forum going like a BBEANS. no problem with making the GTMCS 2 better than the first rather than just giving up on it
Multiple hosts would be a good idea. The main problem with the tourney was just the videos never got up on time. Not really sure why we can't have separate AIers too, I've hosted a fair number of tournaments and I can say it gets real draining after a while esp with one as large as this. I may be available to host, but I'll need to see.
I really don't see how IRL can be used in this though. IRL is not about combat efficiency, it's about show. The game does not handle IRL AI well, and there is gonna be tons of whining about some dood making an IRL bot that just baaarely qualifies in order to spam weapons or something.
Not sure about the Metas. Just something common enough, I like the idea of retooled but I dont think it's ready yet. Ironforge though I think is the standout contender, it's basically made specifically for efficiency building.
We don't necessarily need to have 3 like last time. BBEANS did great with just 1, it was high profile enough that even people who didn't normally build in the meta submitted something because its friggin bbeans
I am still hoping that there can be some kind of results archive created for the first tournament; it was one of my favourite things about BBEANS. On a private website, a dedicated GTMCS wiki, or the GTM homepage there could be the completed brackets, award winners, mathematical standings, and maybe a short blurb on each winner's path to the trophy. There needs to be a legacy attached to it all; otherwise it feels like just another GTM tournament come and gone.
this 100%
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I am still hoping that there can be some kind of results archive created for the first tournament; it was one of my favourite things about BBEANS. On a private website, a dedicated GTMCS wiki, or the GTM homepage there could be the completed brackets, award winners, mathematical standings, and maybe a short blurb on each winner's path to the trophy. There needs to be a legacy attached to it all; otherwise it feels like just another GTM tournament come and gone.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zpWsE5m4SgQ0Lk4TIaJPajIf0FiwOk6OkNhZx3zJFP8/edit?usp=drive_web
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I am willing to run an IRL-style Beat the Clock/Sumo style event in conjunction with other events, although I personally think there would be enough room to support a IRL class in the normal competition.
I see no reason not to include Retooled and IF though. It gets people building in metas they may not usually build in, and helps make people more familiar with them. That was the case with myself, I returned last year shortly before signups opened, and those bots built for IF and Retooled were the first times I'd explored those metas.
Also, I echo the sentiments that there needs to be more done with the previous championship to document them and preserve them.
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I don't see why you gotta remove by far the most popular meta purely because it doesn't suit a competitive event. If that's the case why run IRL tournaments at all in the first place?
As long as it's hosted by someone who actually bothers to turn away sh** that's blatantly overpowered or wouldn't work IRL, even if it was technically possible, then it doesn't need to be an issue. By excluding DSL IRL all you're doing is limiting this tournament to either having a tiny number of participants, or having a huge number of sh**bots from people who normally only build IRL but shove in an entry in stock or whatever purely because they want to compete in the championship.
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DSL-IRL HW, because Robot wars & Battlebots, also Retooled was a mistake
Look TGM. I know that this was said back in the first thread that I looked over if you don't remember, but I remember that some users have been saying that they don't want IRL building in an official tournament. For the main reason being the sheer amount of IRL tournaments that happen around the time, as well as today with GTM Robogames, the sheer increase in IRL builders/users and the over dominants of IRL building as a whole . If the board uses IRL constantly in tournaments and in an forum official tournament , the whole forum will just be a swamp full of IRL building and kills the variety of many of the Meta-games including Stock. So by promoting other classes, it add the variety and encourages people to build into different games and meta classes before being consumed by IRL Bot building. This may be different with Geice and he may allow it, but I doubt some non-IRL building users will want IRL in a meta-game class for this tournament.
I get it. IRL is just for showing off...
Well. I guess, i am not entering it then.
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I added a poll, you should vote.
And if you care at all, you can enter IRL bots into DSL-S still as long as they follow DSL-S rules.
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What will the weight classes be under 2 metas? A LW and a HW are different to watch IMO.
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What will the weight classes be under 2 metas? A LW and a HW are different to watch IMO.
Ironforge: Either MW or HW
Stock: Either LW or HW
DSL: Whatever needs to be filled.
Not sure why LW and HW are too different to watch when they are totally different metas in the first place though.....
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For all the people voting for DSL-S, look at how many people have entered DSL-S for International Wars. It's a dead meta that's been entirely replaced by Ironforge.
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I don't see why you gotta remove by far the most popular meta purely because it doesn't suit a competitive event.
because it is a competitive event. IRL by definition is not competitive. It's not the fault of IRL, it's the fault of RA2. you can't really build IRL for RA2 battle efficiency, if you do then you're building standard. IRL is for looks.
For all the people voting for DSL-S, look at how many people have entered DSL-S for International Wars. It's a dead meta that's been entirely replaced by Ironforge.
i tend to agree.
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IRL in something where trying to win is actually encouraged and where the environnement is heavily competitive is asking for a bracket full of utter tryhard cancer and all the salt-filled madness it implies, IF is the way to go in my opinion
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Good thing we have dsl-s and not retooled, I'm hyped.
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I think the problem is IRL can be competitive if everyone goes in with the intention to win but if you do this currently you are hounded for it.. But DSL-S/Ironforge S has hardly any grasp on reality outside of "don't stack or intersect" and generally just is a pain in the ass to build for. Some sort of hybrid of IRL and Competition might be a good idea.
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I voted two metas. (#virtuesignaling) But DSL-S could get a good amount of entries.
How well (intended tournament size, percentage of slots filled, speed of signups etc.)? How well did the last stock tournament do? The allure of an official tournament was strong before and I'd need some proof in order to say that it's no longer present.
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Some sort of hybrid of IRL and Competition might be a good idea.
This way, we can have the problems of both IRL and DSL-S.
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But DSL-S/Ironforge S has hardly any grasp on reality outside of "don't stack or intersect" and generally just is a pain in the ass to build for.
IDK what you are smoking, but building a decent DSL-S bot should take way less time than building a good stock (don't have to worry about stacking/snapper loading/axle loading) or an IRL bot (no fooling around with RO7 break/attachment hermaphroditism/lining sh** up/skinning). If anything, DSL-S style realistic building is probably the best way to prove who is truly the """best""" competitive bot builder now a days since Sergepatcher came out and anybody can fire it up and never has to worry about doing glitches in stock again.
I think the problem is IRL can be competitive if everyone goes in with the intention to win but if you do this currently you are hounded for it..
I just don't think it works as a true competitive meta in a GTMCS where you can get forum titles and sizzile, due to the fact it's not that easy to draw a line in the sand as to where a bot is no longer "IRL" and no matter how hard it's vetted, someone's gonna slip thru/abuse a certain weapon/etc and then a bunch of people are going to throw a sh**fit. You are still welcome to enter "competitive IRL" bots in the DSL-S bracket if it happens however.
Good thing we have dsl-s and not retooled, I'm hyped.
:beer:
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Standard has like the most simple building rules ever. Don't stack anything and make sure nothing intersects anything that you couldnt theoretically cut a slot into. Let's just do a rule set that any knuckle draggin moron can understand and let's just see who makes the best machine.
IRL is way too subjective for a competitive tournament. It is totally fine for showcasing. Unfortunately, with RA2 and its wonky physics, an effective design in the game is not an effective design IRL. Can we just get over this and build the best we can with what we've got instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole?
AGAIN: IRL is totally fine for showcases and aesthetic reasons. It is awful for competitive tournaments unless you want to arbitrarily gimp yourself and build something inferior ingame even though it may look good irl. Frankly, I'd like to build to make something good rather than something pretty.
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I agree with Reier. I know this has already basically been said, I know that I may be biased, and I know that I'm not that active, but here's what I think:
Given that:
1) The GTMC is (the most) competitive tournament
2) Anything "competitive" implies competitors want to WIN
3) Competitors will try to make the best robot they can within given restraints (because they want to win)
4) IRL legality is fuzzy and subjective
It's reasonable to conclude that there will be a lot of try-hard robots that cut close into the legality of an IRL robot, and this puts a lot of pressure on the tournament host to be fair (because the metagame essentially hinges on the leniency of the hosts).
By contrast DSL-S is much more black-and-white. There are either chassis bisections, or there aren't. There is an intersection between moving parts, or an intersection with batteries/motors, or there aren't.
Why do we still have IRL tournaments, then? Because its less about trying to win. Of course, competitors still want to win, but IRL tournaments are not as competitive by design, competitors care less about winning and more about fun, and then they work with less of an incentive to interfere with IRL legality. There's an appeal that comes from how these tournaments look, as Reier has said. Make an IRL tournament too competitive, and problems arise.
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^yes
Some sort of hybrid of IRL and Competition might be a good idea.
standard is already a medium between stock-unrealistic (formerly the only way people built, really) and IRL
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Off topic: If we are doing DSL (Standard or IRL Idc) will we include the balance patch?
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maybe not to get too ahead of ourselves here but I'm curious what other peoples opinions are about allowing/banning wedges in IF for this. we all know it's basically an RNG dice roll a lot of the time on who wins a match just based on the wedges alone, especially with how easy it is to put wedges on in IF. a lot of designs arent even really viable since they don't have a wedge (ie drums etc). I would personally be pretty okay with banning them for this but I wanted to see what others think.
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I didn't do IRL for the initial tournament because two major IRL tournaments were already going extremely well and there was no way even an 'official' GTM IRL tourney could top them, it could only possibly match them in terms of size.
I'd love this to happen, again. I don't want to be a part of it because I really do overestimate my interest in RA2, nowadays. However, my love for tournaments, in general, is a fire that won't burn out any time soon. So, hopefully this'll happen and it goes down smoothly and the tournament scene continues to thrive. I may not really care too much for what goes down here, anymore, but I would like to know that tournaments of this scale are still going on to appease those that still enjoy hosting/participating in RA2 tournaments.
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if an irl division does happen i'm more than open to host
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Personally in regards to irl, it would be hard to see something as more of an official.championship for that meta than the 7 RoboGames divisions.
If irl was to be used for gtmcs2, I feel the tourney would need some original rule or concept in place that would put greater priority on winning, without making everything look like sh**. Really, dsl-s should be enough for that.
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This still happening?
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This still happening?
Well, Geice and 09 were helping with planning and allowed me to help host. Haven't heard much within the past few days though.
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I have that arena with the hammers modelled up in rhino. Do you want me to send you that for GTMC or to make something similar to the one used for GTMC1? Albeit without floor damage.
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:really_makes_you_think:
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Since someone bumped this I'll spill what we had discussed
- Three metas would be hosted thoughout the year. They would be hosted one at a time with potentially different hosts. The first meta would have been stock HW, the other two would be TBA.
- Arena would be the BBEANS V2 or the arena AS was talking about.
- Champion title would have it's own custom color and rank.
- Rankings would carry over from the previous GTMCS.
Right now all we need is admin action, somekind of prize, and final confirmation if Redace is still willing to host.
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Right now all we need is admin action, somekind of prize, and final confirmation if Redace is still willing to host.
Well, one out of three ain't bad. Still up for it if this gets going. All I would like to know about the other two metas to handle if I need to host all three.