gametechmods
Off-Topic => Real Robotics => Robots Showcase => Topic started by: TheDerpedOne on January 06, 2012, 02:36:33 PM
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After a couple days -Or longer- of looking around, I've decided that I really need help on this Super-Antwight. I was hoping to get enough of a guide from seeing what others have posted around other bots, but no such luck. Currently, I have some sort of design in mind, but I'm not looking to do anything fancy, just some sort of mainstream wedge, hopefully invertible. I've got around a £150 budget for now, I'm really just looking to start it. I'm only posting here so there's not two threads, it'll become a build diary after this .
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Fantastic, great to see new roboteers
Basically, my advice would be to not build a super-ant weight. It's a dead class. There are no competitions for them whatsoever, and are viewed as an overweight ant. Therefore I would highly recommend starting with an ant.
Right now there's an obsession with starting by buying robots. However, you learn absolutely nothing, or at least very little, I would definitely advise you to build one yourself. We can of course guide you through this. Don't worry, it's not as hard as it sounds!
Parts lust coming shortly when I get back onto my laptop :P
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Parts List:
2x http://www.robotbits.co.uk/motors-gearboxes/50-1-high-power-micro-motor-gearbox/prod_10.html (http://www.robotbits.co.uk/motors-gearboxes/50-1-high-power-micro-motor-gearbox/prod_10.html)
2x http://www.robotbits.co.uk/motors-gearboxes/micro-motor-bracket/prod_11.html (http://www.robotbits.co.uk/motors-gearboxes/micro-motor-bracket/prod_11.html)
2x http://www.robotbits.co.uk/wheels-casters/32x7-mm-wheel-white/prod_13.html (http://www.robotbits.co.uk/wheels-casters/32x7-mm-wheel-white/prod_13.html)
http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/lipo_hyperion.html (http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/lipo_hyperion.html) (I'd probably go for 240mAh 2 Cell)
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0-CELECTRA.html (http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0-CELECTRA.html) (Easy and effective, exactly what we use)
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0-SABER2X5-RC.html (http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0-SABER2X5-RC.html)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11965 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11965)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spektrum-Controller-Blade-Helis-MLP4DSM-EFLH1064-/370516976012?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item564488618c#ht_2026wt_1139 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spektrum-Controller-Blade-Helis-MLP4DSM-EFLH1064-/370516976012?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item564488618c#ht_2026wt_1139)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9682 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9682)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9683 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9683)
http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/HDPESheet/Black/2mm/ (http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/HDPESheet/Black/2mm/)
And as for tools, you will need a soldering iron, solder, a drill, a screwdriver and metal scizzors
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hecko, always good to see new builders.
that list is pretty good, just a few bits:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6V-300RPM-Torque-Gear-Box-Motor-New-/220767144125?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3366bf48bd
cheaper but slightly less powerful motors
lipo charger:
http://www.brentfordrc.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2525
a 180mah will see you fine
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a 180mah will see you fine
Course it will, just a personal preference that I prefer my robots to run a little longer per charge
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Wow, thanks for the sudden support! I'm trying to see what I can get, anyway I should get them by the 20th of February, hopefully.
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no problems, its amazing the words "modify an rc car" havent featrued in the thead as per most begginer ones.
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I wouldn't even dream of doing that, I've seen others try it, with no success.
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Just something to note, if you want to spend a little more, with that speed controller, you could double the amount of the first three items and get four each, making the robot four wheel drive and more competitive.
Either that or you could get a servo and make a flipper for not too much of an extra cost
http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?srch=HPX-F (http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?srch=HPX-F)
Just a note, I would not attempt 4WD + Flipper because you would be getting riskily close to the weight limit
no problems, its amazing the words "modify an rc car" havent featrued in the thead as per most begginer ones.
Haha, tell me about it :P
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good luck with your build, you really have the right attitude :approve:
do you have msn by any chance?
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Nah, I've never liked instant messaging, but I would, if it's necessary.
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nah its okay, just wondering.
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Well, so far, without the HDPE, it's roughly £158, so now all I can do is wait. Once again, thanks for the help, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without any. Oh, and I'm going for the 4 Wheel drive.
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Cool, go for it
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sounds like it could be good, what thickness hdpe are you using ?
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As of yet, I have no idea, but as soon as the actual design of the bot is done, and provided that the parts come on time, I'll be able to get it weighed and then figure the rest out after. So far, I'm getting the bot drawn, hoping that it looks good.
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hey mate if you dont want to buy a 500 by 500 sheet of hdpe i have plenty of smaller offcuts of 1mm and 2mm and 4mm
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Thanks for the offer, but I'm pretty sure I'd have enough extra funds, I'd feel guilty f I did.
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no worries mate, here to help.
might want some ti as well for armour
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Something like HDPE sides and wedge, and ti for the top and bottom, if the weight works out? I don't know though, would it be the other way around?
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Do not use plastic for a wedge, use metal. A putty knife from the dollar store (Or in your case, Pound Land) sharpened will work nicely.
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plastic is fine for a wedge, not much point armouring the top and bottom with ti though.
6mm hdpe sides
1mm base (or 2mm if you need it to be rigid) and top
0.5mm ti -1mm ti for the front grade 5 preferably
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Right, I'll keep that on mind. On another note, the wheels kind of make the wedge steep, could I just do a bulldozer thing, or would it not work?
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A wedge is useless unless you can get underneath an enemies wedge or under it. Other wise, I't will foul up the wedge on the first good hit and it will become useless. Please use metal for it.
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I will use metal, but the problem is that I don't think a wedge would work, as I said, due to how steep it is. Is it possible to do a small scoop or would that be useless?
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If your wedge is too steep, then simply extend the bottom plate and sharpen the edge, or take a small extra sheet of metal and bolt it on the bottom of the bot. Use counter sunk screws for this though.
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Damn, when I saw this thread I thould Psyclone was making a reappearance.
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@ R1885 The thing is that the wheels are 32mm in diameter, and it's 4 wheel drive, so that doesn't leave too much room for a wedge, although I don't know the size -And weight- of the electrics and such.
@Meganerdbomb Sorry, but the team name wasn't my idea, so any misunderstandings have nothing to do with me.
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Just allow your wheels to stick up more above the top plate, like I did on Gust
Remember, your robot can be upto around 130mm long, it doesn't have to fit in the cube flat
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You have a four by four by four inch cube for size to work with and 150 grams to work with. Extend the bottom plate and bend it where the edge of the front of the chassis is.
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I'll try to redraw the design when I can, but my niece is round today, and she likes to draw on all the paper.
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use CAD :laughing
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Any suggested ones?
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Google Sketchup
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prodesktop
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I'll attempt with SketchUp first, ProDesktop looks complicated.
Or at least a more professional thing.
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So, I've finally got round to using SketchUp, and I just need to know, if I'm to be using a metal scoop, where to get the metal, since I don't know any shops which sell any.
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ebay
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Oh. I feel stupid now. Thanks though.
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Online metals is your friend.
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The design on SketchUp is almost done, could have the parts by Wednesday, All I need to know is the amount of each type of wire to get, and what material to put beneath the motors, so they're in the middle.
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HDPE
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Okay, I've ordered the parts, the design is done, but a tiny problem.. Direct Plastics seems to not be safe at all, and there's only one hobby shop I know, which will mist likely not have HDPE, or anything else, that's good enough.
@R1885 Which metal should I use? I honestly don't know what is strong for the rammer.
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direct plastics is very reliable, i use them for all my plastics
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Your local walmart, dollar store (or whatever you call them in the UK) or kitchen store sell UHMW cutting boards. UHMW is similar to HDPE.
I've used it for a couple of my bots.
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dollar store (or whatever you call them in the UK)
Pound Shop?
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direct plastics are fine.
you will want ti for the front.
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The thing is, that Direct Plastics isn't a trusted website, according to chrome, and the 'Powered By Dreams' page didn't show. It's not like I don't trust anyone, but I prefer to be cautious.
I'll check it out with some sort of website checker.
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I'm pretty sure direct plastics is fine ;)
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Well, I guess it couldn't hurt to see.
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bourght from there numerous times, now problems but like you say couldnt hurt
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7075 aluminum is light weight, strong, and sells at a good price.
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nah, alu on ants never goes well
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This is not cheap hardware store aluminum, this is the kind they send into space.
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This is not cheap hardware store aluminum, this is the kind they send into space.
Exactly. To give an idea, the chassis for Moros is entirely 7075 aluminum in 1/4" and 1/8" thicknesses, and as/if things break on Nyx, they'll be replaced with 7075. (using 6061 for now since it's not seeing nearly the shock loads)
6061 data-
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061t6 (http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061t6)
7075 data-
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7075T6 (http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7075T6)
Relevant info:
6061 yield strength: 40,000psi (pounds per square inch)
7075 yield strength: 73,000psi
Also, if you're not careful, you might not even get 6061 at a hardware store. Another common aluminum is 5052, and if it's in the annealed state, you've only got 13,000psi yield strength.
Yield strength may not mean much to you, but the scale is linear, so you can at least get a relative idea on strengths.
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i stick to my point, aluminum is pretty bad in antweights. go ti.
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Yeah, I'd go for titanium too
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Well, I'll try to find some good ti, I've currently got my HDPE, hoping that everything come soon enough.
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Sorry to DP, but my motors n' such arrived today, so that was a nice surprise. My only problem is that- How would I go about fixing the chassis together, while being accessible?
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There's a ton of different approaches to that, and which will work best depends on what you've got access to and what you're comfortable doing.
Quoted from my intro guide at http://nearchaos.net/guide.html (http://nearchaos.net/guide.html)
Chassis Construction
Chassis construction generally takes one of a few different routes. The first is an internal frame with armor attached to it, the second uses the frame members as armor, often with connected plates of material forming the structure, and the third is unibody construction, where the majority of the frame and armor are cut from a single piece of material.
Building a chassis using an internal frame with armor panels mounted to it tends to be the heaviest of the three options, though often will be the most durable and easiest to repair as the portions of the armor most likely to be damaged are easier to remove from the rest of the robot. These frames typically involve a welded frame with armor bolted to it.
Frame as armor construction is generally in the middle when looking at strength vs. weight. By reducing frame and armor into a single part, you can reduce the size of the machine and use relatively thick materials in areas likely to come into contact with weapons. Frames like this are more often than not bolted together.
Unibody construction will typically be the strongest per pound, however it is also the most complicated to manufacture, as all features will need to be added to a single piece of material. This often involves repositioning the work piece many times during the construction process. Care must be taken to avoid misalignment of holes as the work piece is moved. The good strength to weight ratio, the best of the three mentioned, is due to the reduced need for fasteners to hold the chassis together and the lack of areas only held on by hardware.
There's tons of different factors to look at. As of late, I've been using flat sheets with hole patterns in them with Nutstrip attached to connect panels at right angles- http://kitbots.com/product.sc?productId=17&categoryId=1 (http://kitbots.com/product.sc?productId=17&categoryId=1)
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Thanks! I'll try to get the Nutstrips whenever I can, since it seems the best one to start with. Would it be wise to cut it down to two or three holes for each side? Just to cut down on weight.
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Here's a few pics showing how I use it-
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/48255NyxAttachments.jpg)
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/65870MCMProgress1.jpg)
What I do is pic areas that I want to use as attachment points and use short lengths of it in those areas for mounting. Doing solid bars would be stronger, but much heavier and putting all of the screws in would take a long time. I normally use lengths between 2x2 and 4x5, with the most common being 2x3.
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Well, Kitbots doesn't deliver to the UK, apparently. I'm looking around now, seeing if I can find any.
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If you've got access to a drill and hand taps you can get the same effect with square stock or L brackets that are thick enough to hold the threads. (For aluminum, a good thickness is about 2x the diameter of the bolt)
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The closest thing I've got is school facilities. They do have good equipment though, and I should be able to ask them if I could use it. They're helpful, at some times.
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small screws will work, or you can tap a thread directly into the hdpe (people say its too soft but i've done it and it seems to be okay)
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Hooray, some parts have come. Oddly enough, with my my reciever, iirc, I got a sticker-y thing saying "Turnigy" I would love to know what in the world that is. I would post a picture, but the camera's hiding.
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if i'm not mistaken turnigy is a maker of servos
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Turnigy is a "in house" brand owned by hobby king. The Turnigy and Hobby King receivers are essentially the same thing.
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That's a promotion from Hobby King, you get them randomly, and you take pictures of what you used Turnigy products for to get store credit if you win.
Full details here:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/sticknsnap.asp (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/sticknsnap.asp)
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So, I've been looking at the speed controller and other wires, and some things don't seem to make much sense. First of all, where does the battery fit into? There's a three prong slot in the receiver, but also the direct ones in the ESC.
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what esc?
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The Sabretooth, in Vertigo's post on the first page.
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there is a wiring diagram that comes with it.
but the battery goes in the terminal blocks at the end of the board. you will need a female plug to put in the sabertooth.
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Ah, thanks. My brain refuses to process correctly, but I do get it.
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no problemo, just don't do what someone else did and bare the battery wires to fit in their esc, then wonder why they have blown up a load of batterys
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So, there's no way that the things from The Robot Marketplace is going to come on time, or with enough build time, so I had a look around the FRA for an ant with all the components for the same price... Sadly, I've found nothing. Does anyone know where I could obtain one?
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what do you need? i have a stock of bits that may be useful.
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Well, just the Speed controller, TX and reciever. I'm just going to have another look around the FRA, see if I can find some decent bits.
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you can get a tx and reciever from www.giantcod.co.uk (http://www.giantcod.co.uk) for £25
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What about a Speed Controller and a Li-Po charger? I know they sell them, although I don't know which is appropriate for a 240mAh one.
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not sure about esc's and li-po chargers as i only use nihm and servos
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i have a sabertooth 5a?
the fra isnt a good place for ants.
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I've had a look around GiantCod, and found a nice Charger, a Speed Controller (Although I may consider the Sabretooth, Haz) and the TX and receiver Plazmic Inferno mentioned. Thanks Guys.
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giantcod don't do any useable esc's mate.
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Oh. Glad I posted before buying.
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they are all BRUSHLESS escs, most motors are BRUSHED
you interested in the sabertooth?
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Well, I have no better option, so yeah.
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send us a pm or email and we can talk more.
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Sabertooth's have poor build quality. Both of my boards have failed in some way. My 2X12 went FET'o ejecto on me at FI and my 2X25 decided to separate itself from its heat sink when I first installed it in Phoenix. Now yes the 2X25 was easily fixed with some shoe goo but I still don't trust them. Also they don't have a very nice expo rate on the mixed setting. If your running a 150g ant you could totally do a servo guts esc or if you need something better Fingertech's tiny esc (http://www.fingertechrobotics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ft-tinyESCv2) is great and they have awesome customer service too.
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Well I've been told they are similar in construction and performance to the Barello Ant 150 which have worked very well for me. They have been used successfully in many ants over here.
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the 12 and 25 amp ones are sh*te, the 5a ones are pretty good
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I have a problem. With my GiantCod Gear (Both the receiver and transmitter) With everything plugged in, nothing happens. There's a green flashing light, but when that's solid, it should be bound, iirc, but as I said, nothing happens.
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is the transmitter turned on throughout?
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Well, the robot refuses to go through one Chanel, and tends to throw an unpredictable fit. We're trying to see if the battery's flat, or if it's some other thing.
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can you show me a picture of your setup?
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try adjusting the trims on the controller ( the small black dials )
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(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/36777SNV32065.JPG)
The trimming don't seem to make a difference. The current problem is a fight with the charger.
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why isnt ch2 plugged in?
fiddle with the trims and mixing i'd say.
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Well, I'm currently charging the battery.
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Are the DIP switches in there proper place?
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I'm sure they are.
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Well, I haven't been here in ages! I suppose it's due for an update, I've been too busy with other things to deal with it.
So, now I have a featherweight, formerly BarnsleyBot, now Twister. I got 11th in Burgess Hill, and I survived a good flipping from Explilision. (Yes, I'm stealing Haz's thing, deal with it.) The ant's broken, but I plan to fix it in the near future.
I'll be at The Royal Armouries event in Leeds, so everyone has a chance to laugh at my failures.
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Bloody hell, it's been a while since I've been on! Does anyone even come on here any more? I've finally gotten myself back into combat Robotics, and plan to make a proper feather. Last summer, I had a go at one, the first metal one failed, and the second, made from chopping boards, looked really bad.
So, if anyone is still here, how are said people?
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It's good to see you're back building again, don't worry about your first feather not being the pinnacle of engineering either, you can't expect your first bot to win the champs really can you.
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Well, the reason the metal one failed, was because one of the sides fell off. Also, the plastic one has been scrapped, motors taken from it. Neither ended up with any electronics, and I think as soon as I can get my hands on some thin HDPE, or recover the sheet I got ages ago, the one i made the ant with, so I can make another. I now go to an engineering college, so I can 3D print my own bots as well. Antweights only, though, they're only MakerBots, the small ones. I can also use Milling Machines. I just have no idea how to use SolidWorks. I can do basic things, but not much.