gametechmods
Off-Topic => Real Robotics => Robots Showcase => Topic started by: TDS on August 12, 2015, 03:53:51 PM
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So, i've been designing and building my first bot in quite a while, it will be a 30lb sportsman
via a challenge issued at botblast, it will be a pneumatic hammerbot.
Since I dont have time to fabricate my own cylinder, I'm using a bimba 4" stroke cylinder I found on ebay
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/cylinder_zpszy1rfeip.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/cylinder_zpszy1rfeip.jpg.html)
its rather big
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/cylindercad_zpslvlsk8cn.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/cylindercad_zpslvlsk8cn.jpg.html)
okay its really big
This will be run on HPA to a chain driven cam based rack and pinion mounting a ~18 inch arm
Pseudo math that I may have done wrong because piston speed calculation is dicey has the hammer clocked in at 317mph at impact @200psi (everything is rated for 300psi)
2x banebots 16:1 's to 3" wheels 4wd (because 2wd is stupid)
Much of the cad is unfinished so nothing fancy yet, a majority of the parts should be arriving by friday this week and the weird shaped stuff like the HPA tank can be measured properly at that time.
I am currently super concerned that I am overweight, with a vast majority of the internals, and rounding up every part I am at 15.5lbs without a frame, hammer arm, screws, wires, ect. The problem is trying to house the gas tank and cylinder makes the frame gigantic (I was showing ~4lbs per frame member and i need 4) which has me gravitating towards blue saw waterjet 3/8" 6061AL or 1/2" or so UHMW instead of aluminium because weight.
Another idea is to make a judge-style frame that is basically a big strong baseplate and a titanium shell, since I can't weld titanium it would be achieved with a bunch of aluminium bearing blocks.
We'll see how the layout goes once everything comes in.
The funny part is I know exactly how to get ruin V2 to work and be much lower profile (and have a proper 180+ degree hammer swing) but i'd never get it done in time for nerc franklin, so this is sort of a stopgap bot to find any problems that may arise running a hammer with 1700lbs of thrust
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Minor update, finally got most of the oddly shaped parts in and things are starting to come together CAD wise
Basic frame/body shape posted below, weight is going to be tight, everything not bearing stress from the hammer besides the front prow will be UHMW as weight is going to be very tight for V1
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piercing hammer or smashing?
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Smashing if I can get away with it, the arm is setup to have interchangeable heads so that'll probably happen, if people start to bring judge plates I can go with a spike, I'd rather bend up someone's frame than pierce their expensive electronics box, this is sportsmans league after all not super serious mode.
Just about everything is ordered and the last should be here in the next few days, then its frame fabrication time, it should come together fairly fast.
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Parts arriving today
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1305_BURST001%201_zpss8ehishl.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1305_BURST001%201_zpss8ehishl.jpg.html)
also got a cheap DRO for my mill, because why not
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1306_BURST001%201_zpsoawsro2o.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1306_BURST001%201_zpsoawsro2o.jpg.html)
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Why do you have a receiver battery? Unless your ESCs don't have a BEC and you don't have a RadioShack nearby, you don't need it.
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this for franklin, or are you waiting for moto?
looking good so far man.
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Why do you have a receiver battery? Unless your ESCs don't have a BEC and you don't have a RadioShack nearby, you don't need it.
People on the FB group were bitching and complaining that I couldn't use my old RCE battery eliminator circuit without blowing everything up because newer esc's aren't optically isolated so I figured I'd play it safe its like a quarter of an ounce to make sure my bot doesn't mushroom cloud.
I'm aiming for franklin, my angle-iron-wedge-defense for these bullsh** sportsman notwedge bots got shot down because of course it did so now my plan is to make sure my first solid hit kills the bot
Small CAD update for the hammer support and hammer arm, still needs some tweaking I just liked the triangle pattern :p
The open area on the main support will house the rack and pinion to actuate the arm.
Not pictured which may not happen is there will be a AR400 cutting edge along the front of the hammer incase the head misses
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i can't tell if your batteries are lipo. If they are you can't use them in a sportsman at franklin. venue won't allow it.
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i can't tell if your batteries are lipo. If they are you can't use them in a sportsman at franklin. venue won't allow it.
LiFePo , I'm fine
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CF, UHMW baseplates/armor, screws, piston clevis, ect. ect. showed up this afternoon, solenoid should be in later today or tomorrow. Cad progress continues and it mostly wrapped up, weight seeming less and less dire as I continue to swiss cheesify parts, and my hammer support members probably dont need to be 3/4" thick, should have it ready for tweaking by early next month.
also ordered some ar400 shooting targets to chop up into various hammer heads
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/2druin2_zpsajziol2t.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/2druin2_zpsajziol2t.jpg.html)
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Ordered the waterjet parts today so the design is largely finalized
ended up lengthening the frame a little, and designing the whole thing to be sawed down to ~2.5" tall for version 2, or another bot.
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Wait: you were at Bot Blast?
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Yep
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What bot did you have at Bot Blast? I feel really dumb right now.
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What bot did you have at Bot Blast? I feel really dumb right now.
Didn't, I took my godson, I was the tall guy with the buffalo warmachine jersey whom Adrian was haranging all day :p
If blue saw comes through for me and my stuff comes in next week i'll be showing up at barn battles in PA next weekend
Might throw together a 12pounder with some handiworks drills i have sitting around
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What bot did you have at Bot Blast? I feel really dumb right now.
Didn't, I took my godson, I was the tall guy with the buffalo warmachine jersey whom Adrian was haranging all day :p
If blue saw comes through for me and my stuff comes in next week i'll be showing up at barn battles in PA next weekend
Might throw together a 12pounder with some handiworks drills i have sitting around
Your godson was given a broken sawblade as a gift correct?
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Oh yeah, I think you were talking to my mom for most of the day XD
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Oh yeah, I think you were talking to my mom for most of the day XD
playa
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Yes on both counts
In other news ruin snaps its weapon chains so I'm going to have to double strand it and use something else to return the hammer, order another sprocket and get clever, or turn it into a flipper.
hrm =/
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Looks like blue saw came through for me, delivery by monday
I'm going to try and throw this thing together next week, convert it to a lifter and show up to barn battles for the 30lb sumo next weekend
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(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/4343211951761_10153043661161611_1533869391193372832_n.jpg)
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damn, that looks great.
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Looking hella good.
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Running into some drive train issues so it looks like i'm going to miss barn battles this weekend =/ pretty much everything possible is wrong
-extended banebots shafts are the wrong size and i'm having difficulty turning them down
-banebots hubs are the wrong bore and outer diameter
-pulley belt is too short
~.~
On the good side with more filing and fitting I'll be spending all night drilling and tapping holes, then the frame is done, then I can start on the rack and pinion
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/axe_zpsj9lekgxb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/axe_zpsj9lekgxb.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/bot_zpsoalg2mjf.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/bot_zpsoalg2mjf.jpg.html)
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Soon
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/12039330_10153081411291611_7945240396402502207_n_zpsiintwjfo.jpg)
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pretty much the only reason im poking around nowadays, this thread
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Yeah, gotta say, really looking forward to seeing how this one goes.
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Get this in the RWRA2 mod maybe for a expansion pack?
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Thanks guys,
looking good so far!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1327_BURST0041_zpsememc5ys.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1328_BURST0011_zpsfn1bqais.jpg)
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Liking how it looks so far. Can't wait to see the final result.
Also, slightly off-topic, but how come you don't have a "Roboteer " title on your name if this is what your primary focus is on?
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Test fit
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1332_BURST003_zpsr6m28g9t.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1332_BURST003_zpsr6m28g9t.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1331_BURST001_zpscjiwmdrl.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1331_BURST001_zpscjiwmdrl.jpg.html)
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progress this weekend
-rack for the rack and pinion almost done, just need to shave down some parts to save weight
-machined bearing holes, ablative lexan bumpers, baseplate template, started on armor shell
-test fit weapon hub
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1335_zpsywb0aj7r.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1335_zpsywb0aj7r.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1333_zpsgbmiftyr.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1333_zpsgbmiftyr.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1334_BURST002_zpspjhwqc0s.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1334_BURST002_zpspjhwqc0s.jpg.html)
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Another step closer to punching holes in the arena floor.
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Man that looks powerful...
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its virtually the same piston that was in terrorhurtz, in a 30 :P
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its virtually the same piston that was in terrorhurtz, in a 30 :P
I dont know what a 30 is, but i fear for my life.
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30lb bot. In UK terms, a featherweight.
A brutal featherweight. I cannot wait to see that thing in action.
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its virtually the same piston that was in terrorhurtz, in a 30 :P
I dont know what a 30 is, but i fear for my life.
It has way more than enough power to punch through the lid, baseplate, and floor, in an ideal world the hammertip will clock in at 320+mph (514.99kph), which puts it above most spinners energy, the piston will put out 1700+lb (771kg) of force.
Realistically though I have too many turns in my gas system, fittings are a little undersized, and I wont run at max pressure, and its very difficult to deliver all that energy when you are lifting up your own robot, and the frame will have problems taking that stress.
The plan is by end of week have it swinging to some effect, start at 100psi and work my way up a little at a time, and take calipers to the frame until it starts to stretch, and that will be my endpoint for the first outing, once bugs are worked out (and hopefully have the weight for an impeller for increased downforce) it'll be dramatically altering the dimensions of the arenas it fights in :)
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That thing is so clean. Very nice, dude.
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it's beautiful :heart_smiley:
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Thanks guys, I dropped off the axes and buffer chamber at welders yesterday when I think are the last parts besides frame reinforcements and such. I changed the rank and pinion to a round shaft based one so I need to figure out the front clevis for the hammer return and how to attach the return spring (which is all a pain in the ass because the piston is off center.
so stuff like that, after nerc I can focus on machining new valves out of aluminum and use the (massive) weight savings to add a second solenoid to power the return stroke
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30lb bot. In UK terms, a featherweight.
A brutal featherweight. I cannot wait to see that thing in action.
Jesus, mary and joseph on a pogo stick this thing is going to utterly obliterate all bots in its weight class.
I really want this in RWRA2 Mod!
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30lb bot. In UK terms, a featherweight.
A brutal featherweight. I cannot wait to see that thing in action.
Jesus, mary and joseph on a pogo stick this thing is going to utterly obliterate all bots in its weight class.
I really want this in RWRA2 Mod!
Lets not get ahead of ourselves, it has more power available to it than I will be able to deliver right now, my original plan to have front stabilizer "sort of wedges" to help it not go end over end got shot down by the sportsmans guys, probably because they dont know what I'm trying to deal with, so until I get downforce figured out it can't be "too" crazy.
The first few outings will determine where I go with the design, once I get it dialed in it should be enough to do some stuff, my main area of concern is the weapon mountings and if the hammer itself is strong enough. (1/4" AR500 steel, 1/2" steel head, a lot of facing rod)
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Todays progress
Armor mounting:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1336_BURST004_zpsqykdp6dk.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1336_BURST004_zpsqykdp6dk.jpg.html)
Welded and partially ground/sharpened primary weapon, picture does not do justice to its beefyness
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1339_BURST002_zpsr8199oea.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1339_BURST002_zpsr8199oea.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1338_zps0gxjmyzr.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1338_zps0gxjmyzr.jpg.html)
Oh yeah and minor testing shows It pentrates through 1/16" steel at 20% power
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well then. :eek:
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No real progress, working late last few days
front armor mountings together, plate chamfered and ready to be drilled. Lid next then the armor is all set and just need to finish weapon return
Drive belts are in finally too
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Will it be okay against wedge bots? Does it have enough drive to overcome spinners knocking it away?
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Will it be okay against wedge bots? Does it have enough drive to overcome spinners knocking it away?
In the US there is a sportsman class, where high energy spinners and wedges aren't really allowed, it is supposed to be to vet designs before you throw them into the arena with 6000watt spinners and go home in a trash bin. I should have plenty of budget to reinforce the front
I'm not overly concerned with wedges tbh, most aren't designed to deal with hammers of this magnitude, spinners I just need enough armor to stop them, which will be much easier once I put an impeller in the bot. I dont expect many, if any bots to survive multiple hits in the same spot if I manage to pin them to a wall.
In other news if someone can find me a 250 psi micro solenoid I'll be very happy
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Will it be okay against wedge bots? Does it have enough drive to overcome spinners knocking it away?
its for sportmans class, which has a no wedge rule and only allows spinners up to 400rpm
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Will it be okay against wedge bots? Does it have enough drive to overcome spinners knocking it away?
its for sportmans class, which has a no wedge rule and only allows spinners up to 400rpm
Yeah I dont really want to hang out in sportsmans for too long TBH, I've found the rules on what is a wedge and what is extremely dependent on who the builder is, not the actual writing of the rules.
My original plan to use L bracket or C channel to put about 2X1/8" of plate under the other robot for leverage for the hammer got shot down even though it has absolutely no chance of wedging anything, as did some of the other more basic defenses against the "not really a wedge" bots, coincidentally the ones being dicks about it are the same ones who have said "not really a wedge" bots, like mikencr's chain spinner who has non -90 degree weapon supports and a less than 1" ground clearance rear wedgelike angled surface, but is cool apparently, the same exact supports bolted to my wheelguards to support the hammer swings, not cool. "dont build a dustpan" is apparently okay if the dustpan is a bunch of lifting forks, the 1" clearance rule doesn't count "if you dont decide to use them like that" I dont know man
It bugs me on a couple levels, once ruin is rocking and rolling i'll probably armor up and move to big boy pants featherweights and build a crusher or something for sportsmans.
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You asked, we gave you an answer, we are sorry that we have not met your expectations.
Next time, don't describe your attachment as an "anti-wedge skirt" with this as the only drawing.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/63330NotAWedge.jpg)
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You asked, we gave you an answer, we are sorry that we have not met your expectations.
Next time, don't describe your attachment as an "anti-wedge skirt" with this as the only drawing.
Yes I know, you keep bringing up a basic image I used because the person I was talking to did not understand the basics of the design I was talking about, this was after several iterations and workarounds of virtually exactly what uberclocker has, except to stabilize the hammer instead of forks (though his are apparently allowed because his forks extend farther than the supports)
can you explain how this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/sportsmans_zpsnrgxllpo.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/sportsmans_zpsnrgxllpo.jpg.html)
who very obviously has surfaces on the front and rear that will not be a 90 degree angle to the floor an inch from the floor when in its normal orientation satisfies the below rule:
"Sides of a bot within 1 inch of the floor must be perpendicular to the floor. If your bot can drive in multiple positions (i.e. inverted), your bot must comply in each of these positions. Unusually shaped bots that do not meet the letter of this rule, but that do not contain wedge-like surfaces may be allowed on a case by case basis.
You must also use care when designing your weapon so that the weapon does not violate the no wedge rule. A weapon which requires a small slope below 1 inch or a small plate that is flat to the floor in order to function will be allowed at the discretion of the officials. "
It appears that neither end adheres to these rules
The front could very easily extend another few fractions of an inch forward within 1" of the floor and not be an angled surface, the small slope is not /required/ as stated.
The rear very much appears to sit less than an inch from the floor, has an included surface, and a spike which is not part of an active weapon and is also an inclined surface, both of these could /easily/ comply, and are there for no "not wedging" functional purpose, but chose not to, you dont have to fret over the rules and say "oh jeeze I wish I could angle this surface because it would save me an ounce but I can't" You can just not follow the rules and its fine.
That is my annoyance
You take the rules verbatim, and apply them to bots who exist or will exist, and they do not adhere to those rules
You have you, someone who publicly is a sh**bag about it with your "lololo make it a flat plate on a hinge" (though it keeps getting deleted from the facebook group and I didnt have the foresight to take screenshots) whom also exploits said rules, /and/ has a say in deciding what is legal and what isn't, including technically legal defenses to their own robots.
It stinks of old boys club elitist nonsense IMO.
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You asked, we gave you an answer, we are sorry that we have not met your expectations.
Next time, don't describe your attachment as an "anti-wedge skirt" with this as the only drawing.
Yes I know, you keep bringing up a basic image I used because the person I was talking to did not understand the basics of the design I was talking about, this was after several iterations and workarounds of virtually exactly what uberclocker has, except to stabilize the hammer instead of forks (though his are apparently allowed because his forks extend farther than the supports)
can you explain how this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/sportsmans_zpsnrgxllpo.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/sportsmans_zpsnrgxllpo.jpg.html)
who very obviously has surfaces on the front and rear that will not be a 90 degree angle to the floor an inch from the floor when in its normal orientation satisfies the below rule:
"Sides of a bot within 1 inch of the floor must be perpendicular to the floor. If your bot can drive in multiple positions (i.e. inverted), your bot must comply in each of these positions. Unusually shaped bots that do not meet the letter of this rule, but that do not contain wedge-like surfaces may be allowed on a case by case basis.
You must also use care when designing your weapon so that the weapon does not violate the no wedge rule. A weapon which requires a small slope below 1 inch or a small plate that is flat to the floor in order to function will be allowed at the discretion of the officials. "
It appears that neither end adheres to these rules
The front could very easily extend another few fractions of an inch forward within 1" of the floor and not be an angled surface, the small slope is not /required/ as stated.
The rear very much appears to sit less than an inch from the floor, has an included surface, and a spike which is not part of an active weapon and is also an inclined surface, both of these could /easily/ comply, and are there for no "not wedging" functional purpose, but chose not to, you dont have to fret over the rules and say "oh jeeze I wish I could angle this surface because it would save me an ounce but I can't" You can just not follow the rules and its fine.
That is my annoyance
You take the rules verbatim, and apply them to bots who exist or will exist, and they do not adhere to those rules
You have you, someone who publicly is a sh**bag about it (though it keeps getting deleted from the facebook group and I didnt have the foresight to take screenshots) whom also exploits said rules, /and/ has a say in deciding what is legal and what isn't, including technically legal defenses to their own robots.
It stinks of old boys club elitist nonsense IMO.
At resting position the spike is nowhere near ground level and is primarily decorative. The front pieces are functionally incapable of wedging and serve only to keep the flails from impacting the floor. You asked to put what is effectively a wedge on a Sportsman bot and threw a fit when you got told no. You're more than welcome to add your anti-wedge skirt and fight it in the regular 30lb class.
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At resting position the spike is nowhere near ground level and is primarily decorative. The front pieces are functionally incapable of wedging and serve only to keep the flails from impacting the floor. You asked to put what is effectively a wedge on a Sportsman bot and threw a fit when you got told no. You're more than welcome to add your anti-wedge skirt and fight it in the regular 30lb class.
So again, that you keep falling back on that makes me believe that you weren't part of the conversation and have no idea what the plan actually was.
The original idea was to use support arms similar to uberclocker as those were apparently legal, this was shot down because uberclockers cage lifter makes them legal, not because they are legal on their own:
Clockers anti tippy arms sit behind the jaw, so they do not act as a wedge
Now in your case, they would go under the other bot and potentially be wedgey
Me:
the jaw is kind of hilariously long though, its just hard to design around these things, like the angle iron idea was "hey this obviously can't be used as a wedge" but still got shot down
so its still wedgey even if it isn't angled and can't remove the other bots wheels off the floor? I've seen some nerc forum conversations around grue and such that seem that is the criteria
if its shape can lift the other bots wheels off the floor its illegal, if not good to go
which is why I thought the angle iron was fine, its either 90 degrees or 0 degrees there's no incline unless the other bot somehow hops a few inches int he air
The wedge rule /appeared to be/ intent based, the conversation on the nerc forums that I found concerned grue, who had an angled face on its gripper (for strength) this was too tall for it to not count as a wedge, if the other bot had less than 1/4" or whatever or ground clearance /you did not care/ but a bunch more than that and it will act as a wedge. I cannot find the post but it was literally said by I think AL or Ed something to that effect, as long as it isn't too tall (to provide wedge action) or too long (to be a dustpan) its fine
This raised the concern that its an inactive weapon, though the body of the machine and hammer action will turn it into an active weapon, The hinge was added to qualify for the "always perpendicular no matter orientation" criteria, and also to fold back out of the way to not act as a wedge when the hammer wasn't bracing the bottom of the other robot against it, and also satisfies the "static plate" portion of the rules
Your "herp derp derp skirts lol" response you always pull out is not accurate, yes, it is/was an idea for wedge defense (as wedges are as I stated largely allowed as long as they also lift, its wedge /defenses/ that are illegal, but it does technically qualify to the rules.
While a large plate extending from the bot that is flat or nearly flat to the floor such as in the bots Alf or Zok may satisfy the rule as described above, it will also not be allowed. This or any other static device which has the purpose of removing the opponent's wheels from the arena floor is not allowed.
unless your wheels are sub 1" diameter AND placed directly on the front of your bot, AND you are two wheel drive, AND you have virtually no rear ground clearance it is geometrically impossible for the angle "skirt" to remove your bots wheels from the ground. The best answer you can give me is "well you said it was a skirt even though it technically isn't" and "because I said so" Those aren't rules. It was an idea to give me a vertical brace for my hammer (EXACTLY like YOUR OWN CRUSHER on nyx who traps the other bot between a moving part and a hinged fork) and protect the bot from all the lifting forks.
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You essentially asked if this with a hammer on top would be Sportsman legal:
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/74764NotAWedge2.jpg)
Instead of asking about alternatives that could meet your goals or trying to come up with something that would work as intended and be legal you chose to complain about the injustice of not being allowed to mount a wedge to your Sportsman class bot.
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You essentially asked if this with a hammer on top would be Sportsman legal:
Yes, if the angle was much shorter (it was only about an inch or so long) exactly. I dont know what the scale to that is but the "outcropping" to vertical space is about reversed, the front of my machine was originally ~3" tall and the "wedge" was around an inch long, what you have pictured looks to be about 2:1 (3" tall and 6" wedge or whatever)
The "oh no injustice" comes in from bots like yours
(1) ~6" long X 1/2" tall angled forks attached to a weapon that almost never connects? well its required to make the crusher work and the forks are totally not a wedge at all.
(2) 1-1.5" long 1/8" tall angle iron required to deliver more hammer power with complexity added so that it literally /cannot/ wedge: holy **** its a wedge, get it the hell out of here.
I even suggested putting the same exact type forks as on your crusher on my hammer, NOPE.
It doesn't make sense, and the fact that you're the only troll about it and unwilling to help /and/ are probably one of the biggest "offenders" draws my original old boys club conclusion. The reason that anyone elses apparent solutions don't work for my machine, is because you didnt build it, thats the only logical conclusion I can come to.
I have asked for alternatives, I just haven't done so with you, because you're not useful as you've shown in this thread.
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(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/885122015-10-09 20_40_39-Microsoft Edge.png)
??
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pretty much, but I dont have side scoops, those were just uncut armored plates since I hadnt decided yet if I wanted to be ambitious and do compound angles on the front end (I didnt, I suck at cutting with a jigsaw)
so tell me, if you had to pick a bot that looked like a wedge, would it be that, or this?
(http://i.imgur.com/F3PTTzj.jpg)
To be clear, I'm fine with "neither is a wedge" but that a ledge to keep those outrageously long forks that are obviously designed to lift the other similiar forkbots up before their forks contact, is more of a wedge than the forks, even when going way out of the way to adhere to the rules verbatim, is ridiculous to me.
I'm fine with it, I'll just run full pressure in those matches and Hopefully it dies before my frame collapses or I get pinned in a corner.
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If you'd spent less time complaining and more time talking to people like a civilized adult you'd have found out that this configuration is considered 100% legal for the Sportsman class a good while ago-
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/39967TotallyLegal.jpg)
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Make it wider though, and its illegal
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Make it wider though, and its illegal
Yes.
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Make it wider though, and its illegal
Yes.
so again, the original point, wedge defenses are largely illegal, and have little if anything to do with your offensive "wedgeocity" the rules apparent design to keep matches from being boring shoving matches or everything being vaporized by spinners is not effective at preventing wedges (or other bots that focus on removing wheels from pavement) from dominating the class.
virtually every sportsman event in a very long time has been won by a bot whose main design point was to remove wheels from floor despite removing wheels from floor being something the class is supposed to be built to prevent every match devolving into.
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Today is :make sure I'm not overweight day
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1343_zpsqviqvosq.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1343_zpsqviqvosq.jpg.html)
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super manly weapon mounting complete, in other news my clean bot has been ruined by the buttery nature of UHMW, the armor is super sloppy :(
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1348_BURST002_zpsl1wxbccn.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1348_BURST002_zpsl1wxbccn.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1349_BURST002_zpsiguenwgu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GRSL/media/IMAG1349_BURST002_zpsiguenwgu.jpg.html)
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It lives
I'm actually a lot farther than this I just forgot to update the thread
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/Mobile%20Uploads/th_VIDEO0020_zpsqnlh10bt.mp4) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/Mobile%20Uploads/VIDEO0020_zpsqnlh10bt.mp4)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/Mobile%20Uploads/cf6a71ba-9331-4d70-a5a5-ef1bf348e380_zpsepsx5r6w.jpg)
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that is utterly terrifying.
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still around 1 pound underweight, if I have time i'm going to make a chain guard and an extra layer of armor over some important parts, there's already extra sheilding around the motors, solenoid, and the speed controllers are sandwiched between the hammer frame members, it would take a hell of a hit to reach them
wish I had found a micro solenoid for hammer return but hopefully ~60lbs of springs should do the job
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duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude
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unfortunately the armor shell won't be all cool and angular its first time out, I dont have time for that sh** right now
good news is there's at least 1/2" uhmw with a big airgap between anything important ant the outside world, I popped an extra 1/4" on top of where the solenoid mounts since its the only thing even remotely close to the lid
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1355_zpso6mhtkix.jpg)
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:eek:
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god damn. good luck this weekend man.
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The moment you have all been waiting for
Weapon test at 1/2 power
http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/Mobile%20Uploads/VIDEO0022_zpsdamv3bon.mp4 (http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/Mobile%20Uploads/VIDEO0022_zpsdamv3bon.mp4)
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Unfortunately i've run into a miriad of last minute issues, mostly because I procrastinated but whatever, taking a quick break to eat then getting back into it.
the bad:
- When firing at half or more power, the weapon cievis's return springs twist it, causing it to bind, I shimmed this out with a uhmw guide, which it proceeded to eat, pulling in some chain partially resolved this but I get less swing (shouldn't matter, acceleration is virtually instant)
-drive train issues, just belts being too tight or too loose, my last minute belt tensioners aren't doing a good job, might run with 2 wheels, most of my weight is in front anyway
-because the system is so rigid, the hammer striking caused backpressure in the system, popping the burst valve, i'm poking around for a solution of a slightly higher pressure safety valve, but not finding any results yet, this will be a scavenger hunt saturday morning more than likely.
-the hammer swinging is kind of boring, despite being pretty effective
the good:
-the system works, pretty exceptionally well, there's not a ton of rebound force due to its rigidity, and it can do severe damage to even extremely shock mounted steel (on top of tire in previous post) and doesn't bounce around like a hammer that relies on acceleration
-there's room for more effective power with some pneumatic tinkering i'll do at the event
-it has a good amount of armor for how much weapon it is carting around
-the frame still specs fairly well
-none of these issues are really "that bad" they just are going to be difficult to resolve properly before Franklin
So spoiler alert: dont get hopes up too high :p
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So while I didnt win any matches, I had a ton of fun, and ruinv2 will be enormously better
Issues:
-before the event, it was discovered my pneumatic safety was bad, I had to fall back to a 200psi check valve, the backpressure from the hammer firing would trigger this valve, I was forced to run ~150 psi instead of the 300-500 that I was supposed to.
-team delta relay burned up after the pre match test fire vs iron golem
-the drive train is too integrated with the frame and bound up.
Lessons:
-looking at other bots, I overbuilt ruins frame because I dont have any experience in anything this small, magneto's flipper is like 1/4" thick plates, ruin has 8 3/8" frame members
-there's a ton of weight savings once I redux the pneumatics and drive system
-my armor lid worked amazingly, it took an immense beating in my second match, from a bot that was basically designed to hit exactly where I didnt want to (between the two supports, in the side where I had no attachments, right next to the window I needed for safety) and it still only suffered some damage and bent inwards, against iron golem his axe did virtually nothing, judging from other bots I dont think the biggest hammer there (piston wax) has any hope of penetrating 1/2" uhmw
Matches:
Iron golem v ruin
after I realized my hammer was out, ruin turned into a pusher, I feel as I was taking iron golem to lunch but we'll see when the video comes out if that is the case, I stuck to him like a fat kid on a buffet table, avoiding his hammer strikes and shoving him around, also wearing him as a hat once or twice, he landed a grand total of maybe 2 or 3 hits in the minute or so, and spent most of the match being shoved around, and generally being unstable which is sort of how the design works, roughly a minute into the fight I think(?) I ended up wall slamming him and the front bumper was tweaked slightly, in turn tweaking the wheelguard, which in turn bound up one side of my drive, banebots motor smoked, and I tapped.
Looking back at my second match performance, I shouldn't have tapped, again I immediately was thinking of expensive speed controller repairs without considering that my speed controllers can handle these motors at stall with gusto, there was no danger.
Despite the pretty quick loss, I was pretty happy with ruins performance, its armor was invincible, its drive was alright, I remembered how to fight immediately which was nice not getting taken to lunch by someone who fights all the time.
I removed the drive motor and set the wheels on that side to free spin so I still had mobiliy
Thunderaxe v ruin
This but was basically exactly what I didnt want to face, not only did I only have half of my drive train, but his high hammer was going to be constantly striking my hammer chains, and the upper section of my armor from the side where it is far, far weaker, in addition he had a thick steel frame, steel lattice I was guaranteed to get stuck inside, oh and his bot was so tall I wouldn't be hitting with the hammer head, oh and he had like 8 inches of airspace between that frame and any of the good stuff I wanted to hit, FANTASTIC.
This calls for the spirit of christmas, we were planning on saving it for the rumble, but as the rumble was probably not going to happen (it did but I missed it) we decided it was time since in all likelyhood I was going to burn out the remaining motor, you will see when the video is uploaded
Pretty much exactly what happened, with reduced pressure I couldn't damage the steel frame with half drive ruin drives pretty well, once or twice i was able to lift him off the ground with the stuck hammer and give him some pushing, and I missed shattering one of his plastic gearboxes by a really thin margin late in the fight.
Improvements: will be focued on reliability, and effective use of weight, since the hammer is still pretty nasty when it actually fires at full pressure, which it hasn't in anger yet, the pneumatics will likely stay close to the same
1: I will be out of commission for a bit as I upgrade and CNC-ize my mill
2: the drive train will be separated from the frame, or more specifically, it will be in its own frame, the new drive wheels will be lighter either the entire drive train will be contained within a 2" or so diameter tube, or the drive motor will be attached to that tube and not the body of the machine, basically no matter what happens to the frame of the robot, the drive train should remain solid since they are their own little "drive pods"
3: wiring and pneumatics will be prerouted, with proper terminals and manifolds, because the inside of my bot was a huge mess
4. armor will be more angular, cooler, and not put together in an hour with a jigsaw
5: since I have time, I'll likely do fancy electronic valve control, meaning I can decrease the size of my tank
Thats pretty much it, the inside of the bot was a mess because I had to make last minute changes for it to work, so the whole thing was a mess :)
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Ruin V thunderhead (match2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQBHmU9p690 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQBHmU9p690)
1/4thish hammer power and 1 wheel drive, lol
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Glad you had a working bot, and I'm glad to have helped out!
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Yeah I appreciate all the help!
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Redesign time!
Currently I am cncing my home mill, so I haven't had a ton of CAD time, hopefully once I start making chips again I can spend time i'm not spending milling, sitting next to the mill using autocad :)
Current plans:
1: Drive Train/frame: lighter, less prone to failure/fire
--Custom wheels, lighter, stronger, wider than colsons
--Integrate drive train into sides, not the frame
----Drive pods will be ~2" dia .125" wall square tubing
----Drive pods will be attached to the machine via new, thick UHMW front and rear bumpers, not super rigidly like before
----No rotating shafts, every shaft will be static, and have a reasonable airgap for damage
--Possibly brushless upgrade, more likely drive train weight savings will go into slightly bigger drive motors
2: Weapon drive: not as strong (was overkill) lighter, no turns
--Entire piston assembly to be remachined, stronger, lighter, better, easier exhaust of gas still inside the piston when fired
--bigger buffer tank to be relocated to under the weapon clevis, more armored, suports that support the tank will also support the weapon frame members, everything inline with the valve instead of a bunch of 90 degree turns
--clevis to be integrated with piston rod, 1" solid 7075 was overkill, weight savings to be had
--new return design to not have the return chain sticking out the front
--new return clevis also to integrate lifting forks on the front of the bot to satisfy sportsman rules and not tip over so much
--new, lighter weight weapon hub, cam design to increase power as well as return strength
--return to be pneumatically powered instead of spring powered
--possibly going to two smaller tanks rather than one large one (still need to math it out)
3: Frame/armor :
--if I go with 2 smaller tanks, bot can have cooler beveled sides, need to calculate weight savings VS large single tank
--2 smaller tanks will also allow the machine to be less fat (though it was pretty small compared to other bots there)
--armor was overkill-ish, need more effective usage of weight for armor, will likely weld another uhmw shell together, but this time properly machined with dovetails, and not half an inch thick :P
--proper electronics, wiring, and pneumatics mounting rather than baling wire and bubblegum rush job
--I have titanium skinning but didnt want to use it on V1, likely will be included
4: Weapon:
--Going to try and make it more modular, if possible will be able to pull the hammer frame members out and replace with a flipper or other weapon on the fly, will take some engineering
--Weapon will be designed last to integrate all available extra weight, some ideas for modular hammerheads are in my mind :)
--Will try and keep rigid firing system from before, need a friction clutch or something for lifting forks
--I kind of want to build it into a shuffler and put all 15lbs of extra weight into the hammer ;)
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First fight! (finally)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7N0chIi3sU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7N0chIi3sU)
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Learning solidworks waiting for my cnc parts to come in
Wheelpods turning out pretty good, at .97 pounds so far, with a few solid parts that will be machined out, need some more braces, misc crap ect.
For comparison just the outer bumper of the old wheel pods was .6 pounds, between these and the new wheels shafts and wheels I should save in the ballpark of 3-4 pounds, AND be stronger.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/ruinwheelpod_zpswr16hy90.jpg)
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How much did it cost to build Ruin? Just wondering, I want to get into the sport somehow.
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A lot, at least 2k
But most of that money is in tools, no matter how much of the robot blows up, I still have tools
I highly suggest the 3 pound bracket, you can make them with hand tools, and dont have to go through the crazy weight management of the 1lb class.
Once my cnc is up, I can cnc parts for people for a few bucks to help offset costs
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just screwing around with geometry and making lattices
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/ruinwheelpod2_zpseqgfuqab.jpg)
Flipping the rear section lets me maintain traction if the front lifts (which its going to, a lot) the angled front allowed the front bumper and wedgelets to connect while protecting the more vulnerable front wheel, basically I'm building a bulkhead in all 6 directions around the wheels with ~ 1/4" airspace in all directions
at current length both drive pods, the wheels, shafts and some misc hardware calculate out to a little over 4 pounds, which is a crazy improvement over about 3 pounds of just frame members on ruin1 I might get fancier with the machining (infinite cnc time yay!)
Unfortunately if I want to belt drive wheels which is what the design calls for, I'll likely need to not put in the cool angled side panels from the previous post unless I get creative, I could squish them down and put the front drive pulleys on the outside and the rear on the inside underneath.
currently on the hunt for shorter drive motors that still put out the pain, I dont have weight or want to throw bevel gears on the gearboxes, but i'll have issues with running the same motors if they are inline with one another since I want to squish down the front end to fit more effective use of armor. Ideally there's a fatter, shorter, same or more powerful motor out there, just need to find it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/layout_zpsqiqhrvzd.jpg)
Here's the layout i'm thinking, it'll probably get a little longerbut its around 1/3rd thinner, going to really get in there with effective use of space, getting rid of the buffer chamber for something more interesting and probably suicidal, the new gas system runs underneath the clevis where the old speed controllers went and is dramatically beefier.
I'm hoping to make the front area up to the hammer chain-ish area unibody aluminum with titanium skinning over it and the rest of the bot, that gives me more surface area to attach stuff inside, and lets me do cooler shapes than nutstrip uhmw would alllow.
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screwing around waiting for last cnc parts to come in, working towards the fabled 600mph hammer :p
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/camshaft_zpsvhwl4pl6.jpg)
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Oh hey, I didn't realize you were on GTM. What was the deal with the Christmas tree?
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My frame was binding up on the one side, i smoked a drive motor and the weapon was running at halfish pressure, the christmas tree was going to be for the rumble but I asked and they said they might not have one, and i'd probably only get one more match out of the other drive motor.
Thus christmas tree, thunderhead wasn't going to be beaten by ruin even probably if it was working properly the thing is like the perfect counter design with ~8 or 9 inches of airspace between its steel lattice lid and the important bits I want to reach. I'll have a weapon head for it next time, but mostly I knew I was going to lose unless he had a catastrophic failure somehow.
the tree was just ziptied to the hammer arm, it really didn't effect the fight at all.
I'm hoping to get ruin2 together by moto in its full 300+mph hammer glory but we'll see how long this cnc project takes me.
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Nope not dead, just still working on CNCing the mill when I have time.
overall design is pretty much finalized, even smaller than the previous post, the piston might be moved up or down a weensy bit but probably not.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/layout2_zpsfnmh3ovk.jpg)
there /should/ be enough room in there for everything I'll be doing it in 3d to verify I have enough room for misc stuff like tubing and speed controllers.
The slight overlap between the frame and outer frame is so that the uhmw rear bumper can tongue and groove into the lid.
The lid will likely end where the front piston trunion joins, letting me build a cool angular front end with the airspace overtop of the drive motors
I've also gotten my first sponsor since returning *high5*
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/ruin2cad_zpskoon8y6f.jpg)
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Wow, impressive CAD. Looks awesome
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Currently clocking in at just under 12 pounds including the drive motors gearboxes and cylinder (and no screws)
(underside shot)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/ruin2cad2_zpsixgboamc.jpg)
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Weapon assembly ready to contain a nuclear bomb
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/weaponsprocket_zps2y9hsfdf.jpg)
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So it looks like i'm making a beetle as it should be quick and easy, and registering it gives me an extra pit pass :P
Spoiler: it's basically a bar spinner, but throwing all of the norms of bar spinner out of the window and stomping on them, also being way too big in typical TDS fashon
Yeah that "might" be the blade in scale with the weapon motor and kit bots drive motors
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/bladewut_zpsps7tccb9.jpg)
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Jesus dude. That blade looks way too big. How long is it meant to be?
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Its currently 24"
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Spinup time will be horrendous on that, surely?
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I guess we'll find out!
The advantage of having a big weapon is your tipspeed is much higher for a given rpm, so I can gear lower to improve spinup time and not really lose much/any net energy.
The design has the ability to run a smaller blade, I just want to try an idea with this one.
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The big bar spinner beetles in the UK just have a tendency to rip themselves apart. Or be ripped apart. Or break down.
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The big bar spinner beetles in the UK just have a tendency to rip themselves apart. Or be ripped apart. Or break down.
They don't have blind patriotism to hold them together? :)
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Anyways, design still continues on it, I'm going to wait for the last minute to register for moto, depending on how the cnc's doing this week.
its even dumber viewed from the size (design subject to change)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/kaboom2_zpstosufzxg.jpg)
the whole body will be machined out of solid 1" 6061 plate, i'll then make an angled fixture and machine the angle on the bottom, the "lid" will actually be the base.
The trick to this, is that the blade is going to be a fancy composite which should absorb a LOT of the impacts, the point isn't to hit things so hard that both bots explode, it is that I have a gigantic, hard hitting keep away stick that I can angle exactly where it needs to be for my opponent.
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Dude your chassis is gonna do all the spinning here.
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Dude your chassis is gonna do all the spinning here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3jZKzYFf2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3jZKzYFf2s)
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So in a way, it's kinda like Cloud with his absurdly huge Buster Sword.
Interested to see how this will actually do. How heavy will that blade be anyway, and how much will that be compared to the estimated weight of the robot?
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In its current form I have it clocked in at 1.2something pounds, I'll probably take an inch or two off to add steel caps or increase the size of the holes to keep it a little under half of the bots weight
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got the cnc and probe working finally, we have entered full production mode
First test run was the most complex part: the sprocket cams, came out okay, actually works, but finish is bad, and some misc mistakes caused by feed rate and backlash being set a little too high
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/BB/IMAG1390_1_zpsifxpjshr.jpg)
Just started wheelpods
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/BB/IMAG1391_BURST005_zpsqfkjsnet.jpg)
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and we have wheelpod
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/Mobile%20Uploads/received_10153237033171611_zpsd3lxw2cr.jpeg)
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Saw this and thought of you. Big bar spinners on a tiny chassis!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGaoRgVheUk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGaoRgVheUk)
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if you look at its previous fights it was badly unbalanced from dbm running a S7 plow against it.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/2_zpscmbvtaow.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/1_zpsggyag0w1.jpg)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/1_zpsggyag0w1.jpg)
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CNC'd some uhmw wheels, without tread they are a whopping .07 pounds each
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/12523036_10153284704636611_1046784657957257545_n_zps3pdgk7dh.jpg)
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Hey man, show us some of that machining porn! What kind of mill are you using?
(also, yes, your finish is quite bad, well, depends how much you enjoy toolmarks :D)
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Ive been dialing it in since the sprocket, but I dont flycut, or finishing pass parts that aren't press fitting and everything is being done with a rougher, so it is what it is
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Yeah, the sprocket was awful, but it does look better from there.
Come on, show us some pics of your setup, I'm a sucker for some behind the scenes footage. Been doing some lightweight machining recently (on a crapped out Bridgeport Series 1 MDI), and I need some inspiration :).
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Its a ~60 year old benchmaster mill with a cnc conversion I made, thats it, it isn't pretty, a lot of my time is spend working around the travel and head room limitations, I could make some awesome stuff with something the size of a bridgeport regardless of backlash or issues.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1401_BURST001_zpsi2uawkyd.jpg)
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If you're getting decent results with that setup then it means that you know what you're doing :). That conversion isn't bad at all. The Z motor moves the knee, and the quill is fixed, right?
Anyway, keep up the great work! I'm moving in a few days, so I'm abandoning my Hackerspace's machine shop and need to find something new. Maybe I'll build a combat robot as a test of the new workshop capabilities..? :D
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Yep, no quill, its all static, i'm actually mostly winging it, if I really wanted to make really pretty parts, I could, just right now i'm in a crunch for moto not trying to win a fashon show.
Despite what machinists want people to think, their job is pretty much just basic math and geometry and isn't really that difficult. When you get into serious production run stuff and trying to minimize time and maximize money, okay it gets a little complex, but just "hey make this thing" is surprisingly simple stuff, cnc added something of a dimension of complexity with remembering zeroing and machine home, but simplified not needing a rotary table and all kinds of tooling to get around the fact that a person can only move in one axis at a time.
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front sections pretty much all done
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/IMAG1426_BURST005_zpsekkkeye4.jpg)
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new wheels
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/12512701_10153297163886611_3736472105110828830_n_zpsmsrohzb3.jpg)
S7 hammer of hopefully terror
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/12662728_10153296649356611_8697022884985209686_n_zpsvjgfn1dw.jpg)
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Ended up breaking ruin in testing before moto, so didnt fight, but had a good time
Spend a good amount of time talking to iron golem and magneto's builders about pneumatics, I'll probably take a step back from the doomhammer for a little bit, got some really good ideas for power and weight savings, and again looking over robots for two days, realizing just how much overkill some of ruins build in robustness since I just dont build anything this small, ever.
I'll be shelving ruin for a time until I have a few functioning, simpler machines ready to roll rather than one mega complex one that takes up all my time.
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Well, this happened
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/154329_zpsx8zs8nx2.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/GRSL/154329_zpsx8zs8nx2.jpg)
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Ruin2.5 have been started cadding, skipping completely over ruin2
After a few talks with jasha (the judge fame) and some research, ive decided on a largely unreglated hpa system, with a flexible, barely there frame to absorb impacts and not detonate like ruin 1.5, shock isolating the drive pods, bumpers, ect. all from eachother should help distribute forces, and then shock mounting a titanium (probably) shell overtop of those shock mounts, to give me a nice jelly frame ready for full combat... hopefully
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/6875013179422_10153516493321611_5857892688005905117_n.jpg)
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I suppose I should be updating this
Parts are finishing daily, I am shooting for ruin2 for franklin
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/73365rails.jpg)
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(https://s18.postimg.org/dmajk6055/14232562_10153794090831611_4864769160999905368_n.jpg)