Author Topic: Da Mekboyz  (Read 20893 times)

Offline courthousedoc

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2012, 08:44:25 PM »
Welll than that's one huge drum. Could make for some very impressive gyro dances
Let me tell you something I learned through life... The weakest link in the chain isn't always the failure point.
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Offline SKBT

Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2012, 09:00:18 PM »
Where does that compare to say RedRums

Similar size. It looks like Redrum has a 24" drum.

Actually, part of my inspiration for the design in the first place was Redrum (the other part was an Ork Battlewagon from Warhammer 40,000, which with a Death Roller looks a lot like a giant version of Redrum crossed with a military half-track and covered with armour plates).

a 24" drum is like twice the height of your average 220. sewer snake is only 8" high last rites is less 10" high.

Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2012, 09:09:03 PM »
Welll than that's one huge drum. Could make for some very impressive gyro dances

Indeed. I've seen an older video of Redrum, and it gyros like Nightmare or Sunshine Lolibot and behaves more like a VS than a drum. The drum will be further forward on my robot, though. I don't know how that would effect it, but I'm hoping it dampens the effect.

a 24" drum is like twice the height of your average 220. sewer snake is only 8" high last rites is less 10" high.

Not everyone builds Biohazard-style low-to-the-ground robots. Also, a tall drum can still hit those machines.
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Offline courthousedoc

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2012, 09:16:12 PM »
The bigger it is the harder it hits right?
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Offline MikeNCR

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2012, 09:34:50 PM »
The bigger it is the harder it hits right?

Rotational kinetic energy is 0.5*(moment of inertia)*(Angular Velocity^2)

What that means is doubling MOI doubles energy, doubling angular velocity quadruples energy. I'm personally a fan of the compact, dense drum geared for high rpm, but both have their benefits.

Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2012, 09:54:11 PM »
The bigger it is the harder it hits right?

Rotational kinetic energy is 0.5*(moment of inertia)*(Angular Velocity^2)

What that means is doubling MOI doubles energy, doubling angular velocity quadruples energy. I'm personally a fan of the compact, dense drum geared for high rpm, but both have their benefits.

Exactly.

My reasons for using a large drum rather than a small are three-fold. 1. It looks awesome. 2. As you said, 24" drum spinning at 1000 RPM has twice the power as a 12" drum spinning at 2000 RPM. This way I can take advantage of using a brushless motor designed for 1/5th scale RC car electric conversions (at least until I upgrade to a PERM PMG-132) without worrying about whether it can keep up the massive RPMs needed for an effective drum. 3. Smaller drums don't seem to have that killer uppercut I'm looking for.
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Offline R1885

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2012, 10:05:15 PM »
The bigger it is the harder it hits right?
Yes, and a drum of that size will be pretty killer...but, the drum will be 24 inches in diameter, bigger than most robots in their entirety. Hell, if you cut it in half, it could be a bot on its own!
You're confusing size for mass, a smaller, but thicker drum, with a small, powerful motor, would by far more preferable.


Also, from what I heard from Ray from Team Hard Core, the Perm 132 is an awful motor for combat. Think of an E-tek motor or a Lynch motor.

Offline MikeNCR

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2012, 10:43:07 PM »
The bigger it is the harder it hits right?

Rotational kinetic energy is 0.5*(moment of inertia)*(Angular Velocity^2)

What that means is doubling MOI doubles energy, doubling angular velocity quadruples energy. I'm personally a fan of the compact, dense drum geared for high rpm, but both have their benefits.

Exactly.

My reasons for using a large drum rather than a small are three-fold. 1. It looks awesome. 2. As you said, 24" drum spinning at 1000 RPM has twice the power as a 12" drum spinning at 2000 RPM. This way I can take advantage of using a brushless motor designed for 1/5th scale RC car electric conversions (at least until I upgrade to a PERM PMG-132) without worrying about whether it can keep up the massive RPMs needed for an effective drum. 3. Smaller drums don't seem to have that killer uppercut I'm looking for.

That's not quite an accurate reading of what I said.

For the sake of simplicity, let's pretend that the 24" drum has exactly twice the MOI of the 12" drum. We'll call them 1 and 2, since it doesn't really matter as energy is linear for MOI increases.

We'll say the big drum is at 2500rpm, little drum is at 5000rpm

5000rpm gives an angular velocity of 523.6 radians per second
2500rpm gives an angular velocity of 261.8 radians per second

So, for the 24" drum, you have (0.5)(2)(261.8^2), which is 68,539J
So, for the 12" drum, you have (0.5)(1)(523.6^2), which is 137,078J

Those numbers are way, way high, as the MOI would be lower in reality, but for illustrative purposes it works. This is  why there's been a trend recently to spin a lighter single toothed disk/bar/etc at a much higher speed for spinning weapons.
 

Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2012, 01:08:30 AM »
That's not quite an accurate reading of what I said.

For the sake of simplicity, let's pretend that the 24" drum has exactly twice the MOI of the 12" drum. We'll call them 1 and 2, since it doesn't really matter as energy is linear for MOI increases.

We'll say the big drum is at 2500rpm, little drum is at 5000rpm

5000rpm gives an angular velocity of 523.6 radians per second
2500rpm gives an angular velocity of 261.8 radians per second

So, for the 24" drum, you have (0.5)(2)(261.8^2), which is 68,539J
So, for the 12" drum, you have (0.5)(1)(523.6^2), which is 137,078J

Those numbers are way, way high, as the MOI would be lower in reality, but for illustrative purposes it works. This is  why there's been a trend recently to spin a lighter single toothed disk/bar/etc at a much higher speed for spinning weapons.
 

That's what I get for not doing my math on the fly. My first and third reasons still stand, though.
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Offline courthousedoc

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2012, 10:17:19 AM »
What type of armor do you plan to use?
Let me tell you something I learned through life... The weakest link in the chain isn't always the failure point.
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Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »
Whatever I can get my hands on.
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Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2012, 03:50:56 PM »
I'm still trying to get an E-Tek and the components for my weapon. Things have stalled out for a second time with this.

It also turns out that my receiver is programmed to send small pulses when the receiver's battery is low (I don't have a BEC). I'll need to add an additional failsafe to stop that.

Let's see what's left on the to-do list...

  • Get batteries Already done.
  • Get Speed Control for drive motors Already done.
  • Preliminary wiring for test purposes Already done.
  • Find weapon motor and components
  • Install power distribution circuit (Y harnesses, cutoff link, fuses and main power switch)
  • Go to scrap yard in search of some still-useful plate metal for armour and some spiky bits for decoration
  • Find another HW builder in the area for practice
  • Enter first competition

My... that's a lot of things still left to do...

On another note, I decided to also design (not build) a combat robot in a more light-hearted way - with LEGO components. People build combat robots out of these lightweight plastic construction toys surprisingly often, and I recommend it for people who just want to play around for cheap and can't commit resources towards a true combat robot.

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Offline SKBT

Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2012, 04:06:35 PM »
Let's see what's left on the to-do list...

  • Get batteries Already done.
  • Get Speed Control for drive motors Already done.
  • Preliminary wiring for test purposes Already done.
  • Find weapon motor and components
  • Install power distribution circuit (Y harnesses, cutoff link, fuses and main power switch)
  • Go to scrap yard in search of some still-useful plate metal for armour and some spiky bits for decoration
  • Find another HW builder in the area for practice
  • Enter first competition

lol fuses...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-MOTOR-GENERATOR-10-hp-12-24-48-Volt-Etek-MT-Electric-Car-Permanent-Mag-/300764013728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4606eea4a0

etek for $270 gogogogoogogo


https://www.surpluscenter.com/powerTrans.asp?catname=powerTrans

surplus mechanical parts.


Offline Phoenyx

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Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2012, 01:20:03 AM »
I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that I was able to get a Smith & Jones 1/2 HP 1745 RPM motor from Harbor Freight. I know it's no E-Tek, but it will have to do until I have the money to buy something better.

The bad news is that Harbor Freight won't tell me if it's AC only or AC/DC. The manual states that it's a 115v @ 7 amps, and I know it's a four pole series wound motor, but beyond that I have no clue what it is. Any ideas? Should I try hooking it up to a battery and seeing if it works, or am I wasting my time?
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Offline SKBT

Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2012, 07:18:19 AM »
it's AC. DC doesn't have a switching frequency.


1/2 a horse for an almost 30lb motor at 115v is comically weak. a chinadrill at 18v produces nearly 1/2 a horse.

a Inexpensive Chinese Brushless Motor or ICBM at 37v will produce just under 4 hp, weighs 2 1/2 lbs and it costs $70.

Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2012, 01:09:01 PM »
it's AC. DC doesn't have a switching frequency.


1/2 a horse for an almost 30lb motor at 115v is comically weak. a chinadrill at 18v produces nearly 1/2 a horse.

a Inexpensive Chinese Brushless Motor or ICBM at 37v will produce just under 4 hp, weighs 2 1/2 lbs and it costs $70.

Thanks.

Looks like I'm down a weapon motor (again), but at least I know that it won't work.
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Offline R1885

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2012, 01:23:33 PM »
Might I recommend this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4935__KB45_11XL_1000kv_Brushless_Inrunner.html
At 36 volts it will out put about 3.5 horse power. Use two for extra fun!

Offline Phoenyx

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Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2012, 01:55:03 PM »
Might I recommend this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4935__KB45_11XL_1000kv_Brushless_Inrunner.html
At 36 volts it will out put about 3.5 horse power. Use two for extra fun!

Uh... this is for a heavyweight. I need something bigger than a 550-size RC car motor.
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Offline SKBT

Re: Da Mekboyz
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2012, 02:03:46 PM »
but your 1/2 horse motor puts out only 50w more than your standard 550 motor...