gametechmods

Off-Topic => Real Robotics => Real Robotics Discussion => Topic started by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 08:25:49 AM

Title: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 08:25:49 AM
Well, I'm making an antweight, and I thought that I'd make a thread to track my prograss and so someone can tell me when I'e gone horribly wrong.

I'm just getting the parts together, today 3 things came, the A3 sheet of lexan, the Battery and the slipper servo:

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/79838IMG_0468.JPG)

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/77578IMG_0469.JPG)

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/63217IMG_0473.JPG)

Still need:

2 drive servos (Need to order off haz!)
Transmitter+Reciever (Being shipped)
Battery Charger (Need to find one)
Lexan glue (Being shipped)
Wheels (Need to find!)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 10, 2011, 09:34:54 AM
Use motors, not servo's for drive
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 10:27:58 AM
What's the difference, after the servos been speedhacked and 360 rotation modded (Horrible choice of words, there)? I heard from somewhere that motors are harder to use and need extra tools ect.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: R1885 on August 10, 2011, 10:45:42 AM
Servos are slow, you will be driven around in circles by faster robots.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 10:47:41 AM
OK. What motors do you recommend? Could I still use servos?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 10, 2011, 10:50:54 AM
Use these motors:

http://www.robotbits.co.uk/motors-gearboxes/50-1-high-power-micro-motor-gearbox/prod_10.html (http://www.robotbits.co.uk/motors-gearboxes/50-1-high-power-micro-motor-gearbox/prod_10.html)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 10:54:08 AM
£13 for 1! I'm fine with slow servos, me, especially as I'm an inexperienced driver. I will probably swap them out when
A) I get the money
B) I get used to driving the damn thing

;)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Skiitzzox220 on August 10, 2011, 11:01:43 AM
I think i'll keep track of this thread, might come in handy if I ever decide to build an antweight.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Jack Daniels on August 10, 2011, 02:17:14 PM
That battery looks tiny. 300Mah isn't much charge capacity. Why did you get that?  On the bright side it looks like it has a standard Panasonic/At&t connector... so you could charge it in a phone I guess.

Also, I don't now a heck of a lot about antweights... but can the electronics run off 3.6v?  That seems odd to me.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 02:25:47 PM
Well, I was recommended 300mAh in this thread: https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,7546.0.html (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,7546.0.html)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Jack Daniels on August 10, 2011, 02:30:04 PM
Interesting.  I didn't think that a battery like that could power a bot for a decent amount of time.  I suppose I have as much to learn as you do.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
remember, it only powers 2 servo/motors for drive, and then the odd flip of the flipper, and the reciever. hopefully one of the more expeienced bot builders will shed light on it.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: MikeNCR on August 10, 2011, 02:37:57 PM
To give a sense of power draw, my ant, Kobalos, ran 4 matches at the carolina event without needing a recharge on the 11.1v 250mAh pack with 22:1 silver sparks for drive and most matches going the limit.


This is the pack- http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/LP-TP250-3SJPL2.html (http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/LP-TP250-3SJPL2.html)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: SKBT on August 10, 2011, 02:44:27 PM
That battery looks tiny. 300Mah isn't much charge capacity. Why did you get that?  On the bright side it looks like it has a standard Panasonic/At&t connector... so you could charge it in a phone I guess.

Also, I don't now a heck of a lot about antweights... but can the electronics run off 3.6v?  That seems odd to me.

Most RC airplane receivers will take a 3-9v input so he's a little on the low side if he has any current spikes that could be a problem.

300Mah is more than enough to run two tiny servos for three minutes. My 30lb flipper only  uses ~900mah for 3 minutes of use.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 03:17:32 PM
So I'm fine with the battery I have? plus, with my driving and half the arena walls missing, matches won't last long. ;)

And what is your opinion on the motors/speed/360 rotation hacked servos for drive?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Stagfish on August 10, 2011, 03:31:39 PM
SPeed hacked servos are not slow, the are insanely fast.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Jack Daniels on August 10, 2011, 05:48:32 PM
Thanks Mike and SKBT for your knowledge.  I had no idea those batteries could power that much for so long.  I guess I overestimate the power draw of Servos (mainly because most of my experience is related to RC cars and such)  Great learning thread so far.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 10:20:34 PM
Thanks Mike and SKBT for your knowledge.  I had no idea those batteries could power that much for so long.  I guess I overestimate the power draw of Servos (mainly because most of my experience is related to RC cars and such)  Great learning thread so far.
Yeah, it makes me think of how inefficient my RC car is. It drains it's fairly large LiPo battery in under 10 minutes.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: MikeNCR on August 10, 2011, 11:06:54 PM
it takes a lot more power to move around a much heavier machine with a more powerful motor.


Apollyon will drain a 2.3ah pack in ~7min.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 10, 2011, 11:18:15 PM
It's pretty light, but I see what you mean. Also, it's 4WD, so it would drain 2x as much as your standard RWD car, I suppose.

Anyways, how would I go about constructing this thing? I was thinking of getting all the parts hooked up and ready, then make as chassis around them, then attach armour panels onto the chassis (All this out of Lexan)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 11, 2011, 03:54:47 AM
As for the polycarb you have, literally cut out a template, and you can literally bend it into shape

Make sure either your top or bottom panel is removable
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2011, 04:17:13 AM
As for the polycarb you have, literally cut out a template, and you can literally bend it into shape

Make sure either your top or bottom panel is removable
I'm not planning to have a panel under the flipper, I could use that as an access point? And what do you think about using speedhacked servos, or motors?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 11, 2011, 04:23:27 AM
As for the polycarb you have, literally cut out a template, and you can literally bend it into shape

Make sure either your top or bottom panel is removable
I'm not planning to have a panel under the flipper, I could use that as an access point? And what do you think about using speedhacked servos, or motors?
Motors
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2011, 04:26:26 AM
Hmmm.

I know that servos are pretty user friendly, do motors just clip in to the reciever too?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 11, 2011, 06:04:11 AM
Hmmm.

I know that servos are pretty user friendly, do motors just clip in to the reciever too?
Yes
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Stagfish on August 11, 2011, 07:18:36 AM
Could you put a link to a site with these motors with links? I've always had to solder mine in the  past :/
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 11, 2011, 08:06:43 AM
Could you put a link to a site with these motors with links? I've always had to solder mine in the  past :/
They don't have links, but they attach straight to most AW Speed Controllers
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2011, 08:14:06 AM
Could you put a link to a site with these motors with links? I've always had to solder mine in the  past :/
They don't have links, but they attach straight to most AW Speed Controllers
Wait, so the servos just plug in, what do these do? Do you have to solder them on?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: R1885 on August 11, 2011, 08:36:14 AM
No, a motor needs an ESC for it to work.
I recommend the SaberTooth 5 RC. It uses screw terminals, so minimal soldering is required.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2011, 08:39:50 AM
Sadly, I've already ordered all the parts except the drive servos/motors. The list is in my other thread in the general discussion part of this sub-forum, I CBA to go find it.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: SKBT on August 11, 2011, 08:45:37 AM
there's no way that an 150g robot will draw more than 1A. The Sabertooth 5 would be a major waste of money and weight for your application. Check out the TinyEsc (http://www.fingertechrobotics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ft-tinyESCv2) it's rated for 1A and commonly used on US ants. P
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 11, 2011, 11:11:39 AM
Could you put a link to a site with these motors with links? I've always had to solder mine in the  past :/
They don't have links, but they attach straight to most AW Speed Controllers
Wait, so the servos just plug in, what do these do? Do you have to solder them on?
A lot use screw terminals, so you will just need to strip the end off the wires

You will most probably need to learn how to solder though. It's easy, don't worry, you should have already been taught soldering at school
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 11, 2011, 11:34:33 AM
Yeah, it;s just finding where to solder and gathering money for a soldering iron.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on August 11, 2011, 11:42:07 AM
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,4509.255.html (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,4509.255.html) (Last post on page)

Depends whether the motors come with wires attached really, made that without any soldering at all
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on August 12, 2011, 11:16:23 AM
servos (speed hacked) are fine for a begginer
of cource motors are better but you said you wouldn't compeate with it
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 12, 2011, 11:53:56 AM
Nope. Expecting to order them off you this weekend.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on August 12, 2011, 12:12:37 PM
okay talk to me on msn or pm me
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on August 13, 2011, 02:30:27 PM
by the way the battery is useless
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: smashysmashy on August 27, 2011, 05:18:38 PM
Any updates, TRB?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 27, 2011, 05:34:29 PM
When I get back off holiday. I've received a few more parts, and the battery is all wrong.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on August 28, 2011, 04:21:57 AM
not all wrong, just the voltage, just get another couple of 300mah cells and solder them on, or get your money back on that little thing
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on August 28, 2011, 06:51:22 AM
No, it doesn't connect to the Receiver correctly, It's a tiny 2-pin, the receiver is a 3-pin.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on August 28, 2011, 08:33:50 AM
and its the wrong voltage, add 2 cells and put a new plug on it, simples
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Tweedy on September 14, 2011, 03:02:28 PM
if youre entering it into roaming robots I'll see you there and www.roamingrobots.co.uk (http://www.roamingrobots.co.uk) sell speedhacked servos that are insanely fast but are a bit heavy at 50 grams and have a low battery drain and they sell battery packs with a good charge
my antweight [ which is yet to be named ] runs on only parts from roaming robots with a custom shell me and my friend are building, we expect the shell to take 2 days to build
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on September 14, 2011, 03:11:14 PM
you have wasted money my freind :confused:
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on September 14, 2011, 03:48:50 PM
Nope, I'm just a lazy arse. Will order the remainder of the parts when I remember not to be on Minecraft/MW2.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2011, 11:05:54 AM
OK, I have forced myself to begin to order the remainder of the bits I need. Though I do need a bit of help:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2v19bw2.png)(http://i44.tinypic.com/mcx3rb.png)


The first image shows the pins that are compatible with the receiver. The second images shows my current battery's pins. I need a rechargeable battery with the first pin design, plus a recharger. Can you guys help? I have found one, but it's 2000mAh, which seems a little excessive.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Tweedy on December 20, 2011, 11:09:29 AM
go on componentshop.co.uk and look at small battery packs and choose the futaba connector on whichever battery  pack you choose
try this link http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/small_packs.html (http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/small_packs.html)   the different connectors are explained on the right side of the page
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: SKBT on December 20, 2011, 11:19:57 AM
Buy one of these (http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/0C-CSRCSETF.html). Cut off the old connector and solder or crimp on the new connector.

Going from left to right with the plug right side up, you want Black then Red from your battery. Ignore the 3rd spot, that's for a PWM signal, which doesn't apply to the battery.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on December 20, 2011, 11:23:30 AM
just get a new battery, 2000mah is way to much
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2011, 11:31:35 AM
go on componentshop.co.uk and look at small battery packs and choose the futaba connector on whichever battery  pack you choose
try this link http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/small_packs.html (http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/small_packs.html)   the different connectors are explained on the right side of the page
Are you sure that I need a futaba connector, not a JR or Hitec, they look very similar. And would a 4.8V 400mAh battery pack be fine?


just get a new battery, 2000mah is way to much
I was looking at another site. The battery I have is 300mAh.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on December 20, 2011, 11:34:27 AM
120mah will do you fine
 futaba hitec are basicly the same so no worries there
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2011, 11:36:08 AM
OK then, I'll order that battery. I guess I'll just have to search up for a charger that'll do futaba connections?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on December 20, 2011, 11:39:09 AM
http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/radio_control1.html (http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/radio_control1.html)

and get a tamiya to futaba adapter
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2011, 12:56:50 PM
Thanks for all the help so far, everyone.

Now, I can probably predict the answer to this, but will this (http://www.active-robots.com/motors-wheels/servo-motors/springrc-standard-continuous-rotation-servo.html) do for drive? (*Waits for many people to say no*)

Thing is, I really need my drive motors to just connect into the receiver, and motors require more work and tools (and knowledge) that I just don't have.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on December 20, 2011, 01:01:18 PM
If you want to use servo's for drive I'd recommend these: http://www.giantcod.co.uk/towerpro-mg90s-22kg-torque-ball-raced-micro-servo-p-403863.html (http://www.giantcod.co.uk/towerpro-mg90s-22kg-torque-ball-raced-micro-servo-p-403863.html)

Although motors are still definitely the best option
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on December 20, 2011, 01:04:32 PM
i aprove the above post :laughing
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2011, 01:09:24 PM
Are they able to do 360 degree continuous rotation (For driving, obviously. =P), or do I have to take them apart myself and change bits whilst watching a tutorial on youtube?


EDIT:


I have been looking at wheels, and have noticed that quite a few have sponge tires. I suppose this isn't strong enough, right?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on December 20, 2011, 01:27:21 PM
Are they able to do 360 degree continuous rotation (For driving, obviously. =P), or do I have to take them apart myself and change bits whilst watching a tutorial on youtube?
You'll have to modify them
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Tweedy on December 20, 2011, 01:35:46 PM
If you want to use servo's for drive I'd recommend these: http://www.giantcod.co.uk/towerpro-mg90s-22kg-torque-ball-raced-micro-servo-p-403863.html (http://www.giantcod.co.uk/towerpro-mg90s-22kg-torque-ball-raced-micro-servo-p-403863.html)

Although motors are still definitely the best option
they are really good servos but you will have to modify them yourself
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 20, 2011, 02:26:00 PM
OK, I may need some help with that when I get them, hopefully you will have put up with my 'till then. ;)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on December 20, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
its simple as AB3
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 21, 2011, 04:42:10 PM
Can someone please remind me of the size limit for an antweight? I know the weight limit is 150g.

Edit:

Nvm, it's 4"3.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on December 22, 2011, 06:16:47 AM
Can someone please remind me of the size limit for an antweight? I know the weight limit is 150g.

Edit:

Nvm, it's 4"3.
Actually it can be bigger than 4" in a single direction, it just has to fit in a 4" cube, doesn't have to fit in flat
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 22, 2011, 08:09:19 AM
Yeah, as long as it can fit in a 4" cube before the fight it's fine.

Although, reading up on some of the rules, I'm afraid some may be difficult to follow:

2h) For safety purposes, all weaponry must have the capability of being deactivated by remote control.
2j) The following radio frequencies are acceptable: 27 MHz, 40 MHz, 418 MHz, 433-434 MHz, 868 MHz and 2.45 GHz. (I have 2.4, not 2.45, is that acceptable?)
5b) Contestants must register their frequencies (including which crystals they have) with the event organiser at least 7 days before the contest. (What, crystals?)
2m) All radio control transmitters must be CE marked and comply with the R&TTE Directive (Not sure if mine is EDIT: It has the CE mark but I'm not sure if it complies with R&TTE.)

Although, apart from that, everything is going OK ATM. Will get the money to order the rest of the parts on Christmas day (hopefully).
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: SKBT on December 22, 2011, 08:45:33 AM
Just like most competitions the FRA hasn't updated their rules to accommodate 2.4ghz. 2.4ghz works by frequency hoping, to find an open frequency so you don't need/have crystals for it. Those rules do not apply.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 22, 2011, 08:50:09 AM
OK then, so I don't need to worry about that. However, with the 'deactivating the weapon' part, will just not touching the weapon (Flipper) control count? (Bad wording is bad.)
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Vertigo on December 22, 2011, 08:51:20 AM
Yeah, as long as it can fit in a 4" cube before the fight it's fine.

Although, reading up on some of the rules, I'm afraid some may be difficult to follow:

2h) For safety purposes, all weaponry must have the capability of being deactivated by remote control. Turn on/off via transmitter
2j) The following radio frequencies are acceptable: 27 MHz, 40 MHz, 418 MHz, 433-434 MHz, 868 MHz and 2.45 GHz. (I have 2.4, not 2.45, is that acceptable?) Yes
5b) Contestants must register their frequencies (including which crystals they have) with the event organiser at least 7 days before the contest. (What, crystals?) N/A if your transmitter is 2.4ghz
2m) All radio control transmitters must be CE marked and comply with the R&TTE Directive (Not sure if mine is EDIT: It has the CE mark but I'm not sure if it complies with R&TTE.) Oh well :P

Although, apart from that, everything is going OK ATM. Will get the money to order the rest of the parts on Christmas day (hopefully).
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Tweedy on December 22, 2011, 09:12:07 AM
OK then, so I don't need to worry about that. However, with the 'deactivating the weapon' part, will just not touching the weapon (Flipper) control count? (Bad wording is bad.)
it basically means when you turn your controller off, the weapon ( and drive ) should stop moving completely
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 22, 2011, 09:19:18 AM
OK then, simple enough. I thought it meant that you needed a killswitch for the weapon. =D

Also, I have some K'Nex wheels I could use, but are they even worth bothering with? I have the dimensions, If that helps.


EDIT:


Also, as the drive will be bound to one analouge stick (And the flipper to the other), I would need a Y-lead like this (http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/85196/), wouldn't I?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: SKBT on December 22, 2011, 09:28:11 AM
No you don't. You plug one ESC into aileron and the other into elevator and enable V-tail mixing on the remote.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on December 22, 2011, 09:32:19 AM
I don't think my remote has a button for V-tail mixing, but I guess I'll just have to see if it works.

I was thinking of ordering another pair of these (http://www.giantcod.co.uk/towerpro-sg90-micro-servo-p-268.html) (same as my weapon servo) as I read somewhere that they were good for rotation modding (what is the correct term for that, anyway? =S). Is this a good or bad idea?
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on December 22, 2011, 09:38:09 AM
they arnet the best for drive, use the ones that vertigo linked you to, scrap that for the flipper aswell, get a hitec or supertec one
they will work though, i use them
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: Badger on January 04, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
Ok, so I picked up the battery and recharger today, meaning I could test my servo. Works fine. =D

Although the battery recharger seems to hate my battery. When I attempted to recharge it it flicked the discharge light on for a second then gave up. Maybe because it only has 300 or 600 mAh settings, and The battery is 400?

Will order that drive servos soon, when I decide what I want to get.
Title: Re: The road to an antweight
Post by: haz on January 05, 2012, 01:33:36 AM
is the charger set to the right voltage?
what charger is it?