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Off-Topic => Real Robotics => Real Robotics Discussion => Topic started by: LiNcK on January 30, 2011, 04:49:36 PM

Title: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: LiNcK on January 30, 2011, 04:49:36 PM
Here's a vid of the Championship of the 6th Wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDZjUM3INzs# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDZjUM3INzs#)


What do you think about it?
Did Tornado cheat?
Was it a fair fight?
Were the House Robots on Razer's side?


Express yourself about it :3
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Scorpion on January 30, 2011, 04:53:49 PM
Oh no, not this again, there are some strong opinions about this fight IIRC.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badnik96 on January 30, 2011, 04:56:58 PM
*insert flame war here*
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GoldenFox93 on January 30, 2011, 04:59:44 PM
*Loads Hunting Rifle*
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: G.K. on January 30, 2011, 05:03:36 PM
Not cheating, fair fight, I don't agree that people think was cheap, but everyone can have their own opinion.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: FOTEPX on January 30, 2011, 05:38:44 PM
*Loads high-powered rifle with 7 bullets*

I actually know somebody who was there, and he said this.

Quote
The boos from the croud were deafening. Most of the cheering was dubbed over, and a lot of people left with scowls on their face. I couldn't care less about either bot, I really wanted a spinner, maybe 13 Black or Hypno-Disc to win, but I'm sure it was rigged.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: SKBT on January 30, 2011, 05:39:13 PM
I've got no problems with Tornado's cage. I have the same thing for my bot and about 3 other configurations. Sawbot De-fence, Crusher web, thicker back armor that can be removed depending on who I fight, and some other stuff I don't want to give away yet. :P

Here is a
I don't have picture of my anti crusher web handy or it on my bot but it's almost identical to Tornados web sin size and materials its made of.

My thoughts about this whole thing... If you spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on something and there is an easy way to prevent it from being destroyed... do it.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: LiNcK on January 30, 2011, 06:35:09 PM
I dont think its cheating... But its not exactly fair either, He made his bot bigger than the pit & Unreachable :\
Its almost impossible for Razer to win, If there was more time, Maybe Razer would have found a way to get him in the pit butyeah...

Hes not breaking the rules, But hes destroying the point of them.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Urjak on January 30, 2011, 09:52:40 PM
Someone brought up a good argument a while back and I would like to repeat it. Tornado broke no rules, and there cage was an interesting idea. It kept the match far more interesting (most of razer's matches consist of razer getting under the opponent and crushing them. And then it ends. With tornadoes' cage the match was far more entertaining.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on January 31, 2011, 11:21:43 AM
Razer had already beaten Tornado twice and won a domestic title; in that match it had nothing to prove.  Besides, that wasn't the first time Razer had faced the anti-crusher web; Tornado expended the element of surprise when they beat Razer in Extreme Warriors with it.  Razer team has only themselves to blame if they weren't prepared for it the second time around.
 
Besides, they did a little better each time, you'll recall in the European Championship that Razer pretty much owned Tornado and would have won had the motors not burned out (it was the right decision for them to conded the match; an immobile robot should be automatically out)
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Scrap Daddy on January 31, 2011, 06:14:46 PM
Typhoon won fair and square
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: JoeBlo on January 31, 2011, 06:32:21 PM
^ LOLWUT ^

Anyway it was legal... I personally think it ruined the whole spirit of the competition and made the final into a joke... but was still legal

honestly a box with a garden fence attached it it pushing around another robot was pretty lame.. then again for some strange reason nearly half of RW finals were that way, S3, S5, S6.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on January 31, 2011, 07:54:50 PM
It wasn't so much pushing as it was ramming; bashing Razer into the sidewall; I thought that was pretty cool to watch.

Anyone who watches the European championship closely can see that Tornado was by no means invincible even with the frame on.  It's like the Juggernaut really; huge amount of power, but it can easily be foiled by simply not allowing it to build up momentum.  With the extra girth that came with is frame, Tornado lacked the grace and agility that had served it so well before, and Razer had no trouble cornering it and dominating the match.

Had Razer not burnt out, I assure you the match would've been even less watchable than the Series 6 finale.  Razer would have just dragged Tornado around the arena, not making any good footage for TV, but nonetheless getting the win on a unanimous judges' decision
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: NFX on January 31, 2011, 08:00:04 PM
Tornado's frame was legal, as was Razer's claw weapon to snag onto it. I had no problems with it being big enough to keep Razer at bay, I did, however, have problems with it being too large to fit into the Pit of Oblivion. I do still believe that Razer should have won that fight, Tornado were as near as makes no difference in the pit. Besides, if every robot were too big to fit down the pit, then that would completely negate the point of it being there. As an anti-crusher device, I think the frame was fair. But as an anti-pit device, I think that was pushing the line a bit too far. Cassius 2's was fair. Tornado's wasn't, I believe.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: G.K. on February 01, 2011, 10:48:19 AM
That's mentorn's fault for setting the size rule to be larger than the pit.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: SteveM4 on February 01, 2011, 02:48:52 PM
BLT

Battles Like This
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badger on February 08, 2011, 12:57:39 PM
Totally unfair.

Mentorn really messed up in some places, the fans just wanted the real fight.

the only changes I would make to the show is no interchangeable weans and must fit in pit.

And the Typhoon - Storm II fight was BS. A total lie and a disgrace to a strong RW fan.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: G.K. on February 08, 2011, 01:01:05 PM
no interchangeable weapons

why
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badger on February 08, 2011, 01:18:23 PM
Too versatile, part of the fight is different matchups. Also, that 'frame' couldn't be put on. I mean no major structural/weapon changes.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: LiNcK on February 08, 2011, 01:21:56 PM
Too versatile, part of the fight is different matchups. Also, that 'frame' couldn't be put on. I mean no major structural/weapon changes.


I find it okay to use interchangable weapons...
But making a super cage SPECIALLY to win against Razer (That doesnt even fit in the pit) & Then remove it forever is unfair for me.


Reminds me of when I was new in RA2 & My brother played it with me, I made this bot with like 10 razors ont he side spinning & I just blew their wheels :D
Then they started making bots the would be PWNED by everything else (Literally, They couldent even kill AIs with that, But they could with the others) but it was impossible for MY bot to kill them...
Thats just low & Unfair :\
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badger on February 08, 2011, 02:10:40 PM
Too versatile, part of the fight is different matchups. Also, that 'frame' couldn't be put on. I mean no major structural/weapon changes.


I find it okay to use interchangeable weapons...
But making a super cage SPECIALLY to win against Razer (That doesn't even fit in the pit) & Then remove it forever is unfair for me.


Reminds me of when I was new in RA2 & My brother played it with me, I made this bot with like 10 razors on he side spinning & I just blew their wheels :D
Then they started making bots that would be PWNED by everything else (Literally, They couldn't even kill AIs with that, But they could with the others) but it was impossible for MY bot to kill them...
That's just low & Unfair :\

Better solution.

Also, either small changes, such as new motors/weapon tips, or a completely new bot, IMO. See Chaos 2.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: JoeBlo on February 09, 2011, 04:11:07 AM
Another piece of interesting info..

They made an Anti Hypnodisc structure of some sort.. Pics never surfaced but HypnoDisc disputed it prior to the fight and as a result they ended up using the scoop.

Apparently outlawed on the grounds it was intended for defense thus not fitting in the interchangeable weapons ruleset.. sure was a bit of a stretch to get around the rules with the frame..
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on February 09, 2011, 02:24:00 PM
It was ok'd because they needed the frame to counterbalance their big spinning blade
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badger on February 12, 2011, 03:23:17 PM
It was ok'd because they needed the frame to counterbalance their big spinning blade

Obviously.  Not cheating at all then. [/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Scorpion on February 12, 2011, 03:29:31 PM
Yeah, lets face it, the disk was crap, they only made it for the frame.
And anti-hypnodisk? How would that work?
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badger on February 12, 2011, 03:54:23 PM
Yeah, lets face it, the disk was crap, they only made it for the frame.
And anti-hypnodisk? How would that work?

Make their bot Pussycat, call it interchangeable weapons and sorted.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: JoeBlo on February 12, 2011, 08:43:22 PM
Yeah, lets face it, the disk was crap, they only made it for the frame.
And anti-hypnodisk? How would that work?

sounds like it was to drop all the weapon system weight and put it all into Armour...

Yeah, lets face it, the disk was crap, they only made it for the frame.

correct.. they used the mower blade from the S6 final..

Yet disabling a weapon and completely picking up an opponent counts as less then shoving one into the wall..
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badnik96 on February 20, 2011, 11:40:12 PM
I have no problems with Tornado's frame except that yeah, it was Mentorn's fault for making the size limit bigger than the pit. Silly Mentorn, screwups are for kids! [/endthread]
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: G.K. on February 21, 2011, 04:22:08 AM
I have no problems with Tornado's frame except that yeah, it was Mentorn's fault for making the size limit bigger than the pit. Silly Mentorn, screwups are for kids! [/endthread]

^^This^^
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: MAJR on April 19, 2011, 05:00:58 AM
The thing is that, as far as the UK wars went, Tornado only used that cage in fights against Razer. They claimed it was an anti-pit mechanism but because it only saw the light of day in matches against Razer that argument was suspect. If it was an anti-pit mechanism it should have been a perminent part of its machine and not something that could attatched to it depending on the opponant.

Whoever made the rules for Robot Wars messed up because Tornado's cage was not playing fair. It put the main body of the machine out of Razer's reach and made it pretty much impossible for it to be pitted and it left a sour taste in the mouths of most of the audience who had never seen Tornado use the cage outside of the Razer fight. The rule-makers should have demanded it be a perminent part of the machine and that it be small enough so that it could still be pitted but because they didn't the cage wasn't against the rules but certainly seemed to be foul play.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on April 19, 2011, 05:04:13 AM
The thing is that, as far as the UK wars went, Tornado only used that cage in fights against Razer. They claimed it was an anti-pit mechanism but because it only saw the light of day in matches against Razer that argument was suspect. If it was an anti-pit mechanism it should have been a perminent part of its machine and not something that could attatched to it depending on the opponant.

Whoever made the rules for Robot Wars messed up because Tornado's cage was not playing fair. It put the main body of the machine out of Razer's reach and made it pretty much impossible for it to be pitted and it left a sour taste in the mouths of most of the audience who had never seen Tornado use the cage outside of the Razer fight. The rule-makers should have demanded it be a perminent part of the machine and that it be small enough so that it could still be pitted but because they didn't the cage wasn't against the rules but certainly seemed to be foul play.
1. Welcome to GTM.
2. Tornado never claimed it to be an anti-pit device, more a support for the large horizontal disc.
3. They are allowed interchangeable weapons, in the fight Razer added a special hook to their beak to try and grab tornado.
4. The max size for a bot was bigger than the pit, which was a muck up but made Tornado legal.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: FOTEPX on April 19, 2011, 05:07:43 AM
Found a flaw. In the RFA rules, it says if your going to have interchangeable weapons, your bot is weighed with the heaviest additions possible.

Tornado with the shell weighed 102KG. Thus, BY RULE, it should have been disqualified.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on April 19, 2011, 05:08:59 AM
Found a flaw. In the RFA rules, it says if your going to have interchangeable weapons, your bot is weighed with the heaviest additions possible.

Tornado with the shell weighed 102KG. Thus, BY RULE, it should have been disqualified.
Yeah, not the same thing... :yaya)
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: SKBT on April 19, 2011, 05:46:32 AM
I've got no problems with Tornado's cage. I have the same thing for my bot and about 3 other configurations. Sawbot De-fence, Crusher web, thicker back armor that can be removed depending on who I fight, and some other stuff I don't want to give away yet. :P

Here is a
I don't have picture of my anti crusher web handy or it on my bot but it's almost identical to Tornados web sin size and materials its made of.

My thoughts about this whole thing... If you spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on something and there is an easy way to prevent it from being destroyed... do it.

I still stand by this...
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: haz on April 19, 2011, 06:14:44 AM
my opinions on this.
you have to take it for what it is, a tv show none of it is realy that serious and anyway, its not like thats the only thing that razer had the chance to win, it won loads of awards and the first world championship.
im kind of glad tornado won, it showed that good driving can be just as good as a destructive wepon.
what does anoy me is razer fanboys who will just sling abuse at tornado and their team. it anoys me even more when these useless pricks say that tornado destroyed robot wars and ruined it, if anything ruined robot wars it was bloody mentorn.
i think in some peoples minds it was all real. take it for what it is.
i like tornado
i like razer
i like both teams
i hate fanboys

rant over
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Enigm@ on April 19, 2011, 06:27:03 AM
Robot Wars's later years were rigged, let's just agree on that.
Also:
Surgeon General > Tornado
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: haz on April 19, 2011, 06:33:39 AM
you can't compare uk and us robots propperly as they are designed for vey different styles of combat.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: JoeBlo on April 19, 2011, 07:35:41 AM
Robot Wars was entertainment before competition..

So you may as well just enjoy it the same way..

Cant change the results now..  :gawe:
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GoldenFox93 on April 19, 2011, 07:51:08 AM
Robot Wars was entertainment before competition..

So you may as well just enjoy it the same way..

Cant change the results now..  :gawe:
Precisely- even though Cassius II going into the pit whilst fighting Pussycat saddened me, I can at least realise that results can't be changed, and it was a good showcase of the capabilities of two great machines.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: NFX on April 19, 2011, 08:05:43 AM
Precisely- even though Cassius II going into the pit whilst fighting Pussycat saddened me, I can at least realise that results can't be changed, and it was a good showcase of the capabilities of two great machines.
And how important good driving is in a fight. If you've got an extremely destructive robot, but are totally unable to actually get at the opponent with it, then you're kinda stuffed.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GoldenFox93 on April 19, 2011, 08:07:03 AM
Precisely- even though Cassius II going into the pit whilst fighting Pussycat saddened me, I can at least realise that results can't be changed, and it was a good showcase of the capabilities of two great machines.
And how important good driving is in a fight. If you've got an extremely destructive robot, but are totally unable to actually get at the opponent with it, then you're kinda stuffed.
Precisely- that's why I tend to prefer British Robot Combat- it more tends to utilise actual operating skill, rather than simply a contest of who can create the biggest weapon and shove it into opponents first.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on April 19, 2011, 10:23:42 AM
Found a flaw. In the RFA rules, it says if your going to have interchangeable weapons, your bot is weighed with the heaviest additions possible.

Tornado with the shell weighed 102KG. Thus, BY RULE, it should have been disqualified.

Where did you read that it weighed 102 kg's?
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Badnik96 on April 19, 2011, 12:57:52 PM
Surgeon General > Tornado

^this^
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: G.K. on April 19, 2011, 03:35:26 PM
Tornado with the shell weighed 102KG. Thus, BY RULE, it should have been disqualified.

Wrong.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GarvinTheGreat on May 03, 2011, 03:59:16 PM
Nope it was a boring fight and tornado cheated
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: cephalopod on May 03, 2011, 04:02:07 PM
I love how someone says they cheated, then someone explains how they didn't, then someone says they cheated... etc.

In the end it's how many years ago? On a biased TV show. Stop being a fanboy, the TV show isn't even coming back.
Tornado won the fight. In my eyes it was not fair, but they followed all rules and so won fairly.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Enigm@ on May 03, 2011, 04:03:33 PM
I love how someone says they cheated, then someone explains how they didn't, then someone says they cheated... etc.

In the end it's how many years ago? On a biased TV show. Stop being a fanboy, the TV show isn't even coming back.
Tornado won the fight. In my eyes it was not fair, but they followed all rules and so won fairly.
This is why Battlebots is better. :trollface
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: cephalopod on May 03, 2011, 04:04:46 PM
This is why Battlebots is better. :trollface


Another argument altogether, and one of pure opinion. ;)
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Enigm@ on May 03, 2011, 04:06:48 PM
This is why Battlebots is better. :trollface


Another argument altogether, and one of pure opinion. ;)
Nah, I like both. They had some really great builders in both shows that I'd like to meet.
I just kinda grew up with Battlebots.
That, and Teletubbies, Winnie The Pooh, and South Park.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GarvinTheGreat on May 03, 2011, 04:07:07 PM
I love how someone says they cheated, then someone explains how they didn't, then someone says they cheated... etc.

In the end it's how many years ago? On a biased TV show. Stop being a fanboy, the TV show isn't even coming back.
Tornado won the fight. In my eyes it was not fair, but they followed all rules and so won fairly.
You are right. They did follow all the rules. But as you said the fight wasnt fair in my eyes and I agree.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GarvinTheGreat on May 03, 2011, 04:08:25 PM
This is why Battlebots is better. :trollface


Another argument altogether, and one of pure opinion. ;)
Nah, I like both. They had some really great builders in both shows that I'd like to meet.
I just kinda grew up with Battlebots.
That, and Teletubbies, Winnie The Pooh, and South Park.
LOL. I grew up with Robot Wars,Spongebob, Blues Clues and The Simpsons
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Enigm@ on May 03, 2011, 04:08:43 PM
I love how someone says they cheated, then someone explains how they didn't, then someone says they cheated... etc.

In the end it's how many years ago? On a biased TV show. Stop being a fanboy, the TV show isn't even coming back.
Tornado won the fight. In my eyes it was not fair, but they followed all rules and so won fairly.
You are right. They did follow all the rules. But as you said the fight wasnt fair in my eyes and I agree.
Hey, you're not as much of a dildo after all. ;)
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: cephalopod on May 03, 2011, 04:08:55 PM
I love how someone says they cheated, then someone explains how they didn't, then someone says they cheated... etc.

In the end it's how many years ago? On a biased TV show. Stop being a fanboy, the TV show isn't even coming back.
Tornado won the fight. In my eyes it was not fair, but they followed all rules and so won fairly.
You are right. They did follow all the rules. But as you said the fight wasnt fair in my eyes and I agree.


Quit saying they cheated then (:
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GarvinTheGreat on May 03, 2011, 04:13:58 PM
I love how someone says they cheated, then someone explains how they didn't, then someone says they cheated... etc.

In the end it's how many years ago? On a biased TV show. Stop being a fanboy, the TV show isn't even coming back.
Tornado won the fight. In my eyes it was not fair, but they followed all rules and so won fairly.
You are right. They did follow all the rules. But as you said the fight wasnt fair in my eyes and I agree.
Hey, you're not as much of a dildo after all. ;)
Whats a dildo. Sorry if ive been kind of a jerk these past days always saying "tornado cheated "and that stuff. Im in a bad mood today. Its Tuesday and bad things always happen to me on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Enigm@ on May 03, 2011, 04:15:52 PM
I love how someone says they cheated, then someone explains how they didn't, then someone says they cheated... etc.

In the end it's how many years ago? On a biased TV show. Stop being a fanboy, the TV show isn't even coming back.
Tornado won the fight. In my eyes it was not fair, but they followed all rules and so won fairly.
You are right. They did follow all the rules. But as you said the fight wasnt fair in my eyes and I agree.
Hey, you're not as much of a dildo after all. ;)
Whats a dildo. Sorry if ive been kind of a jerk these past days always saying "tornado cheated "and that stuff. Im in a bad mood today. Its Tuesday and bad things always happen to me on Tuesday.
Erm, you don't wanna know. :ermm:
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: madman3 on May 03, 2011, 04:16:11 PM
EEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHH

Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GarvinTheGreat on May 03, 2011, 04:25:12 PM
Thats good that im not well that.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: Hard Bot on July 12, 2011, 10:24:44 AM
Robot Wars was rigged right from the begining all the way to the end.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: GoldenFox93 on July 12, 2011, 10:25:56 AM
Nice two-month bump, buddy.
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: ty4er on July 12, 2011, 10:26:43 AM
Robot Wars was rigged right from the begining all the way to the end.
Clever boy.

Nice little bump aswell
Title: Re: Razer vs Tornado - Fair fight?
Post by: SteveM4 on July 12, 2011, 10:34:14 AM
Guys, did you hear?
(http://s.lowyat.net/uploads///avatars/av-186673-1215458812.jpeg)
Robot Wars was rigged!