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Messages - Clickbeetle
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41
« on: August 05, 2018, 11:42:09 PM »
Attention attention! This is a test. I repeat: this is just a test
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I mean, the hubs on those wheels DO look pretty cool as weapons... would probably look better as a shell spinner than a ring spinner though. Inspired by Colsonbot? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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This is awesome, it looks like Kraken but with saws. And two wedges.
42
« on: July 15, 2018, 08:31:08 PM »
Looks cool man, it like how it looks like a thing not just a generic bot
It looks like a Minecraft mob. I was surprised to click back a page and find out it was called Ridgeback and not Enderbot or something.
43
« on: July 15, 2018, 08:21:20 PM »
I like Flower Power and the hammer with the Cobra wheels. Such an oddball design. I just might try stealing it...
44
« on: July 15, 2018, 07:24:59 PM »
I actually said that I considered 2.2 CE a 2.3 beta earlier. I figured the thread title should reflect that.
For the record though, I'm not trying to steal your project. I still consider you the lead developer of 2.2 CE and, by extension, the 2.3 patch. I'm not going to be around here forever (my recent 2-year absence reflects that) and we need someone else on the DSL team to take over in those cases. Yours, dragonsteincole's, and Mr. AS's (anyone else I'm missing?) work on 2.2 CE suggests that I can trust you will handle any future updates to DSL beyond 2.3 reasonably.
I'm still realizing how rusty I am after 2 years, ESPECIALLY in regard to IRL building, and if I want to implement any features you honestly think are really bad, don't be afraid to tell me no. (The new overvolting mechanic seems to have sparked a bit of controversy and may not actually be as good an idea as I thought it would be, for example.)
45
« on: July 14, 2018, 01:21:48 AM »
Anyone remember the old RA2 Mythbusters thread? I'm not going to dig down and resurrect it, because I want this thread to be for testing weapon balance in DSL. But Mythbusting is basically what I'm doing here. As you all know, I was off RA2 for about 2 years, so I don't actually know that much about my own project (DSL 2.2). So when a few respectable people said that the Typhoon teeth were overpowered, I mostly took their word for it, figuring they had more experience than me, and agreed to make Mr. AS's weapon rebalance patch official for an upcoming DSL 2.3. But later I was doing some battles and noticed that Typhoon teeth (actually, normaled weapons in general) seemed to be performing surprisingly poorly, similar to the situation in DSL 2.1 where having normals was an automatic death sentence for weapon useability. So I thought I had better do some formal testing. This is my setup: The long extender rails are to keep the two test bots aligned, so I can keep bashing their weapons together head-on and see who wins under different circumstances. I put different weapons on each bot, with or without Mr. AS's patch, and kept track of which bot de-weaponed the other. Test 1: 2 Typhoon teeth vs. 4 iron spikes, without AS patchBoth of these weapon setups weigh 40 kg, but Typhoon teeth are heavier. Therefore, I expect the Typhoon tooth spinner to beat the iron spikes due to the efficiency bonus for heavier weapons. But Typhoon teeth have normals, and iron spikes don't, so who knows? Result: Typhoon teeth win 100% of the time with both teeth intact. So I know that big normaled weapons are good enough to beat an equivalent weight of spammy little weapons. But are they too good? Test 2: 2 ripping teeth vs. 2 hammer heads, without AS patchNote: I tested this with Typhoon teeth as well and got similar results. Ripping teeth are more or less the same as Typhoon teeth. I used them here instead of Typhoons because they are closer to the same weight as hammer heads. These weapons are almost the same weight (44 kgs. of teeth vs. 46 kgs. of hammers), but the teeth have normals and the hammers don't. So they should be approximately evenly matched. Are they? Result: Ripping teeth win 90% of the time, usually with both teeth intact but sometimes with only one. Now this isn't a great deal of data here, because I have better things to do than smash test bots together 1000 times, but it seems reasonable to conclude that Typhoon/ripping teeth are indeed overpowered, but only a little bit. Keep in mind that my test setup here is a best-case scenario for normaled weapons - a head-to-head collision. It removes the advantage of non-normaled weapons being able to damage in any direction. In a real battle situation, if you hit a Typhoon tooth from the side, it will take damage without dealing any in return, making them effectively worse. So in an ideal test setup, normaled weapons should win more often. That said, 90% of the time might be too much. And most DSL players agree from experience that Typhoon teeth are too good. So does Mr. AS's rebalance patch fix the problem?Test 3: 2 ripping teeth vs. 2 hammer heads, with AS patchResult: Hammer heads win 100% of the time, usually with both hammers intact. Hmm. That shouldn't happen. I also tested with Typhoon teeth instead of ripping teeth and got the same result. Test 4: 2 Typhoon teeth vs. 4 iron spikes, with AS patchResult: Typhoon teeth win 100% of the time, but almost always with only one tooth intact. So normaled weapons are still good enough to compete with small non-normaled weapon spam, but possibly just barely (these are ideal conditions, remember). But as for non-normaled weapons of equal weight, forget about it. If you have 50 kg to spend on weapons, go for hammers over teeth every time. Does Mr. AS's rebalance patch fix the problem? Yes, but I think it fixes it too well. In DSL 2.1, normaled weapons got either a 1.4x or 2x damage boost, depending on how many normals they had. The AS patch drops this boost to a maximum of 1.4x. Tentatively, I suggest that for DSL 2.3, the maximum boost should be more like 1.8x. But this will require more formal testing. But I invite anyone interested in this to do some testing of their own! I suspect the replica discs are overpowered for different reasons than the Typhoon teeth. Namely, being all one piece gives them a huge advantage over other weapon setups - no need to worry about teeth breaking and unbalancing your weapon, AND the weight of the disc effectively counts toward weapon weight! The solution? Perhaps, for DP calculation, the estimated weight of the center disc portion should be ignored, so for a Minion disc, instead of getting DP balanced for a 75 kg weapon, it has DP balanced for a 20 kg weapon instead. This mimics having a non-weapon disc with weapon teeth.
46
« on: July 10, 2018, 07:42:01 PM »
nice look to it cb
I will agree Ephilates looks pretty cool, especially with the wings, but holy hell does that extender frame look way too fragile for an IRL bot. Might need to find a way to make it look thicker.
it's not irl he's just trying to make something that's cool and can fight
CB hasn't even been around since IRL got popular anyway
The fact that he's got supports either side of the the disc, even if they are stick thin, and he has little reinforcements connecting the front wedgelets to the wheel axles would imply to me that it's trying to be IRL.
It is intended to be IRL (and Slambot too), I just have a looser definition of what constitutes "adequate supports" than most people. I tried building a cage around the motor at first but it looked too bulky and ugly. I just realized if I downgraded the chassis armor I could probably add another layer of extenders so the front half of the frame was 2-3 layers thick... would that be good enough? It seems my preferred building style occupies some sort of weird middle ground between standard and IRL.
47
« on: July 10, 2018, 06:44:18 PM »
I have a question. What is your stance toward Serge's Component Freedom mods? It seems like a large number of bots in the DSL showcase are built with this. Is Component Freedom generally tournament-legal now so long as the end product looks IRL? If so, how do you deal with externally-attached batteries falling off and crashing the game? Actually, I have two questions. There is also this section: Any skirts placed on metal or skirt hinges must have a “dustpan” system to support them, or they will be denied.
What about Biohazard or Final Destiny-style skirts? You might also consider putting a list of all the restrictions (and ONLY the restrictions) at the start, and put your justifications in a separate section, so it is easy for players to check what is and isn't allowed. The current document looks like something people will skim. I admire the effort to standardize IRL rules, even if it seems futile.
48
« on: July 10, 2018, 03:05:20 AM »
For OverChopper, use a 40cm bar segment in the middle and put long segments on the ends, without Typhoon teeth. It will be much sturdier.
With a fancier skin it will look pretty cool!
49
« on: July 10, 2018, 02:30:40 AM »
Back to building! I forgot how fun this is. Mostly testing the 2.2 "Complete Edition" and Mr. AS's rebalance here. I had some old DSL 2.1 designs that I never finished (they just don't work as well in 2.1), and thought this was the perfect opportunity to bring them up to version 2.2. First, an update to Slambot. Original Slambot was really fun, but did the thing a lot. The uneven wheels and asymmetrical forks on this version make it thing-proof on its side, and much less likely to get stuck on its nose (though it can still happen). The wheels are also better protected. It still can't win the wedge war against any competitive wedge, and can't beat spinners unless it can flip them... which means it can't win very many fights at all... but meh. If I wanted to win fights, I wouldn't build a 4WD LW. Then there is my attempt at a Nightmare-style VS. Really happy with how well this one turned out. It's pushing up against the max sphere on all sides (top, front, back, sides, AND bottom) and was kind of a pain to build, but ended up working better than I expected. It even fits in some arenas! Spinup time is sort of slow, but once it gets going it hits like a freight train. Can confirm that ripping teeth are still useable in Mr. AS's rebalance mod. The wings look cool and also keep it from tipping over due to gyroscopic forces. If I wanted to build a more competitive version I could drop the chassis armor and add more teeth, but I like it the way it is. (Also I have a feeling adding more teeth would make the spinup time unacceptably slow.)
50
« on: July 10, 2018, 01:03:01 AM »
I put Epitaph 2 on the bot exchange.
Honestly forgot that I ever entered that in a tournament... it must not have done very well!
51
« on: July 01, 2018, 09:33:43 PM »
I've been away too long. Somebody is Jonathan Schultz of HUGE? Last I remember, he was just borrowing other people's bots to run at events. You've come a long way in a short time, Somebody.
Now I'm really rooting for HUGE to win. Or Bombshell, but it's not looking good for Mike at this point.
52
« on: July 01, 2018, 08:05:41 PM »
A bit late to the party here, but
Worth noting: The reason I didn't include the DSL3 NPCs in 2.2 was not just a compatibility issue. There is a bug with upward-facing Base-type attachment points, where if you try to place a component over it, the cursor (and component) snaps to the side.
Try to put a battery above a DSL3 NPC and you'll see what I mean.
This also happens with Magmotors and a few other things, but is less noticeable because they are smaller (or so big that you will almost never put anything above them, in the case of E-teks). NPCs are big enough that it becomes a huge chore to place anything above them with upward-facing base attachment points.
53
« on: July 01, 2018, 06:20:54 PM »
Hot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerf
Is it the large ones, small ones, or both?
Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?
If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.
The real issues with them are that they're pretty easy to spam even without sacrificing in other areas, plus they have a pretty nice collision model, and a decent looking, versatile appearance which can fit with many designs, while most of the alternatives such as the DSL teeth look kinda ugly in many applications, or don't have as good of a collision mesh. As a result of all of that you end up seeing bots with like 15+ typhoon teeth and rarely do you see bots, especially effective ones, with anything else.
Sooo... it's more that people just prefer them for aesthetic reasons and ease of placement? That doesn't sound like a nerf is the answer. Do you have any specific examples of alternatives with "bad" collision mesh? Would "fixing" these help?
54
« on: July 01, 2018, 05:58:33 PM »
Where are my crazy Nightmare-style VS' at? Nowhere, 'cuz the discs weigh too much. Go on, show 'em some love!
Did I ever post this thing? It's not skinned and it's still 50kg underweight, so I don't think I did. 
55
« on: July 01, 2018, 05:33:14 PM »
Should Mr. AS' DSL 2.2 Weapon Rebalance patch be officially implemented?
I'm going to abstain on that until I get a chance to read more feedback from players, check out a few recent showcases, and of course test out the weapon rebalance patch for myself. But I will have an answer... next week maybe? Better make it two. I don't want to rush this.
56
« on: July 01, 2018, 05:24:23 PM »
I was aware of this while working on DSL 2.2, but I didn't know any easy way to calculate how much the hollow discs should actually weigh. I think I did pretty well with my estimates though, at least for the smaller ones. (75 vs. 90 kg for the 250cm is a pretty big deal, I will admit.)
The thing your calculation overlooks however, is how much the solid discs should actually weigh. Compared to the weight of the other DSL discs (the silver ones), they should be far, far heavier than they are. It's more like the solid discs are underweight, not the hollow discs that are overweight. But I wisely decided to ignore this because giving the large discs realistic weights would make them completely unusable. We'll just have to let Physics go cry in a corner in this area for game balance purposes.
The fact that the 200-250cm discs are rarely used probably has more to do with the relative size of the other components than any balance issues. Bots can be made so compact that there is no need for such large discs. If was re-designing DSL from scratch, I would make all the motors slightly bigger to force less compact designs.
Side note: This makes me appreciate just how crazy Nightmare's design is, and why Jim had to cut out large sections of the disc for the 2015 BB season. That disc has to weigh a LOT.
57
« on: July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PM »
Hot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerf
Is it the large ones, small ones, or both? Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too? If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.
58
« on: July 01, 2018, 04:11:35 PM »
Hello GTM, long time no see! I am sure that everyone here who remembers me has noticed that I have not visited in a long time. What you may not have noticed was that the time of my disappearance roughly coincided with the release of RA3. This was not a coincidence, despite just using the word "coincided" in the previous sentence. (English is weird.)
Some of you may remember that I got invited to the Encore development office to meet the RA3 development team and test an early version of the game, and afterward I was hyping it up, saying that it had a lot of potential to be everything we wished RA2 was. Well, we all know how that turned out. Suffice it to say that I was more than a little disillusioned with the whole thing. I had a taste of double-acting burst motors, darn it! Torque-reaction thwackbots that actually work! And don't forget NO 7-COMPONENT CHAIN LIMIT! What do I do now, go back to RA2 like RA3 never happened? It felt like a downgrade, despite RA3's obvious flaws. Don't tease me with all these cool features and then snatch them away!
So, combined with work stuff, this is why I've been away from GTM. It's a silly reason, and I knew that, so I've been intending to come back. (Thank FOTEPX for finding my email and getting me to finally get off my sorry butt and do that.) But first, as one of the only people to actually meet the RA3 dev team, and even having some involvement with development (I sent them bug reports and even suggested a few features that made their way into the final version) I thought I owed the community an explanation for the RA3 debacle.
In February of 2016 I got an email from somebody at Encore asking if I would like to visit the office and be part of the pre-alpha test group, since we were both in Minnesota. (Conveniently, it turned out that I lived less than an hour's drive away from them.) Obviously I jumped on that like Inertia Labs asking if I wanted to come over and take Bronco for a test drive. So in March, Firebeetle and I drove down to the office and got shown around. (For those wondering if Firebeetle is a real person, a fake double account, or if I'm just schizophrenic, if you manage to get hold of anybody who worked at Encore, they can confirm that there were two people there. Or can they?)
Most of the meeting took place in a conference room, where they had RA3 running on a big projector, showing us what they had done so far and what they planned to do, and answering a few questions we had. The lead designer of RA2 from Gabriel Interactive was there via Skype (or something), playing the game remotely and explaining the team's vision. At this point only the bot lab was in a playable state (in fact you could argue that this is still the case), so we were only there about an hour or so, after which we got instructions for accessing the test version of the game from Steam so we could start working on bug reports.
Knowing that I was involved with the DSL mod, they also encouraged me to, and I quote, "poke around in the game files", which I thought was a bit odd at the time. In retrospect, I think this may have been a last-ditch effort to crowdsource RA3 development because they knew they wouldn't finish it in time. They may have been hoping that by giving modders access to the pre-alpha version, we could contribute components and possibly even code to speed up development. This theory is backed up by the knowledge that they contacted HereticBlue and the UK Robot Wars mod team, but not Sage, who also lived in Minnesota but didn't have much modding experience. (I suggested that they should get Sage on board, and they agreed, but didn't seem super enthusiastic about it.) Unfortunately for them, it took me something like five years to finish DSL. There was no way I was going to be able to finish RA3 for them in one month. Had I known that they were that desperate for help though, I might have tried a little harder to figure out how the game worked. I still regret not making more of an effort at modding RA3 when I had the support of the dev team.
Anyway, the thing I took away from that meeting at the time was that the Encore team genuinely wanted to make a great game. These were not men in fancy suits just trying to turn a quick profit by capitalizing off the recent popularity of the Battlebots and Robot Wars reboots. They were never anything but friendly, enthusiastic, and excited to give the RA2 community what it wanted. That enthusiasm rubbed off on me, and I came away optimistic for the game's future. This is perhaps because I didn't see their progress before that point, and had no idea how quickly (or slowly) they were working. I thought one or two months would be enough time to at least get the game in a playable state, and if it was successful (which I thought there was a good chance of), they could continue working on updates.
When the release date drew near and it became clear to me that the game would not be finished in time, I tried to warn the dev team and pleaded for them to delay the release date. I think this may have been what prompted them to release the game as "early access" rather than a final version, as they originally planned. But as we all know, it was still a disaster. They should have delayed any sort of release, and I kind of think they wanted to, but they were not able.
Now, I don't know anything of what was going on behind the scenes or who the dev team's boss was. But it seems that although the team I met was totally cool and not just in it for money, ultimately money was their downfall (as in, they ran out of it). Whether they had a grant for X dollars and once it was gone it was gone, with nothing they could do about it, or whether there was some shadowy executive behind the scenes who was just interested in a quick cash grab, I don't know. But I am convinced that the RA3 debacle was not their fault. They did the best with what they had, and I am still convinced that if you got this same team together and funded them for another year, they would produce a quality game. It's a crying shame that they didn't get that chance.
So that's my story. I thought a rare eyewitness account would provide some much-needed context and perhaps help clear the names of Gabriel and Encore a little bit. RA3 is a barely-playable mess, true, but it had potential to be great and the dev team doesn't deserve any hate.
And now... finally back to RA2, I guess?
59
« on: April 25, 2016, 02:45:23 AM »
I'm gonna be "that guy" and ask "hey click wtf happened to your admin title"?
It's still there, just invisible. Something to do with the board rearrangements preparing for RA3, or something. So for the moment I'm an undercover admin. Bot looks alright, but personally I would make it wider so that it stands more of a chance against HS/SNS without getting it swept away. I also feel that you can use N12's instead of Cobra wheels.
I tried N12's at first and it wasn't as good. For one thing, they have significantly less HP. For another, being smaller, they tilt the bot up at an angle, which puts the bottom edge of the front support panels out further in front and makes it harder to hit bots with the weapon. I suppose I could ditch the wheel guards and use bigger front plates to make it wider. It wouldn't be so cute but it might do better against HS. I'll give it a try.
60
« on: April 25, 2016, 01:17:26 AM »
Weird to think that this tournament is over now, somebody won, but we won't know the results for a few months (unless somebody leaks it but I'm not going to look for that). *Sees new Son Of Whyachi*
*contains excitement*
I can't wait to see what it can do either.
AFAIK the original shuffler Son of Whyachi was the only version that ever worked properly. It was rebuilt twice after that and never even got to spin up, let alone win a fight. Considering that Warrior was plagued with issues last season too, I am prepared to be disappointed. Honestly I was more excited to see Ziggy as a backup, considering Too bad it doesn't look like it actually got to compete.
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