Messages

2721

Discussion / For the "original stock" teams: BW/AW/SHW bots?

« on: February 20, 2009, 07:35:59 PM »

I've thought about doing this.  Put all the replicas in teams together, and have the last three slots of the stock teams be AW, BW, and a racing bot.

When the time comes (once I get a good handle on the replica-improving, probably) I think I'll start accepting submissions from the community for AWs, BWs, and racers.  I'll release the drag strip arena first too, so you can test your bots.

2722

Modifications / The DSL 3.0 preview thread

« on: February 20, 2009, 07:26:55 PM »

I'm not sure.  I mean, it's not that messed up.  One of the attach points is just further out than the other.  And if you need a really short extender for something, the short multiextender works great with those attach points.  If you need an accurate T junction there are other components that can do the job.

Meanwhile, I just finished the new Minion, the first official SHW.



The "official" SHW class in DSL will be 1200 kgs.  Of course, there's nothing preventing you from making a bot heavier than that, but if you want a fair fight against the AI, 1200 is what you should aim for.

There's also a new special icon (a purple "S") that indicates which AI bots are SHW.



To answer the inevitable question: No, unfortunately I can't make icons for the AW and BW classes.  The reason is because there is only one extra weight class in RA2.  This fourth weight class is called "None".  It's used when you first start making a new bot, before you go to the chassis menu.  Look at the weight class and it says None.

I made Minion a "SHW" by editing the .bot file and using the class ID for None, then editing the default weight icon image in choosebot_cell.gib.  I didn't actually make a new class that the game recognizes.  So, no AW or BW icons.

SHW-ness aside, the new Minion is vastly improved over the old one.  If you ever imported the old Minion into the bot lab, you would have noticed how all of its parts have weird lighting and look dark even when they're facing the camera.  That's been fixed.  It also has new custom wheels, a new srimech that looks like the real one, some new skins, a weapon belt, and, most importantly...



It's BIGGER.  With 6 Fast NPC drive and weighing in at almost 1200 kgs, the new Minion is a veritable tank.  Ain't no VS gonna throw this bot to the ceiling anymore!

Minion is actually going to be one of the easier opponents, just because of the way it's designed.  It's hard to make a VS with no frontal wedge and a small disc good.  But it's at least a good ten times better than the old one, and if I'm able to make the AI attack with both ends (wedge and disc) it's going to make a mean pusher.

2723

DSL TC Showcases / Urjaks Showcase

« on: February 08, 2009, 08:48:45 PM »

The Backlash disc will be fixed in DSL 3.0.

And I wouldn't call that a sawbot... sure, it has saws, but as you said yourself, they're more for armor than weapons.  (in which case there are better choices for armor since sawblades have low HP for their weight).  It's more a classic Mako-style VS just with discs instead of bars.

That said, it's a pretty good classic Mako-style VS with discs instead of bars.

Edit:  Doesn't Woozo's weapon AGOD?  In my experience, putting axles on a VS ALWAYS triggers the AGOD.

If it doesn't... what did you do different to make it work?  And congratulations on making the first ever VS with flails.

2724

Stock Showcases / Clickbeetle's bots

« on: February 08, 2009, 08:37:25 PM »

Look at Frag Beetle Larva.  The extenders are more exposed.

Going off of the success of Frag Beetle 2, I decided to try and make a MW version.

(Image removed from quote.)

Blah Blah Blah

I rotated the 20cm extenders in order to angle them forward.  Do that with several extenders in a row and you get a nice curve.

2725

Discussion / Accuracy

« on: February 08, 2009, 08:09:50 PM »

It doesn't quite line up with the grid.  It doesn't have to; I only say this because it looks like it's supposed to line up with the grid.

But the colorful skin is a lot clearer and a lot easier to measure.  I thought of making it high-resolution with smaller numbers, but I think the colors work even better.

2726

Modifications / BBEANS Arena V2

« on: February 08, 2009, 07:41:55 PM »

I've finished all the necessary lag-reducing and AI-navigation tweaks, and the arena is now up for download!

http://beetlebros.gametechmods.com/files/bbeans2.zip



This is the arena that will be used for BBEANS5, so you may want to test your bots in it to see how they do.  Fighting in here is a lot different from fighting in the Combat Arena.

Features:

-Walls around the spinning blade retract into the floor after 1 minute.
-Flippers in the corners activate after 2 minutes (after a 5-second warning).
-Slightly bigger fighting area.
-Slightly higher walls.
-Completely transparent walls for easy bot viewing.
-Heavily damaged bots can sometimes catch on fire.

***WARNING***

The BBEANS Tournament Arena V2 uses Madiaba's HazardsBlueRay.py.  I have included a copy for your convenience.  However, if you have a more recent version of HazardsBlueRay, (check the Date Modified) then DO NOT OVERWRITE IT.

All other files are safe to overwrite.

2727

DSL TC Showcases / Condor's showcase

« on: February 04, 2009, 11:30:35 PM »

Well, aside from the obvious "Dual Perm Is Way Overkill For A MW", you could try using just a plain DSL bar, like on my LW Epitaph.  It would break off in one big chunk instead of becoming unbalanced, and you could therefore last longer.

Nice bot... I didn't think that could be done even remotely effectively.

2728

General Support / AIing Trouble

« on: February 04, 2009, 11:12:02 PM »

Noses (based on the forward heading arrow in the bot lab):

......0 (=pi*2)
........|
pi/2--|----pi*1.5
........|
........pi

If your bot's nose is pi right now, and it's facing to the left, then it should be pi*1.5.  I think.

2729

Stock Showcases / Naryar's Stock Stuff

« on: February 04, 2009, 10:49:14 PM »

Great bot.  You know, for some reason there just aren't a lot of caster-armored VS's.

I want to say the wedges would still bounce if you attached the weapons to the other side of the Snapper, but I can't think of any time I actually tried it.  Maybe it would work.  Though I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Edit: That popup is like a rightside-up Heroic Sacrifice.  I imagine that's slightly harder to do than the start-upside-down method.  Good bot.

2730

Modifications / Starcore v4 Revival & Completion

« on: February 04, 2009, 10:17:28 PM »

Glaring Problems:

Alien Queen and Mome Rath tumble out of control in the Combat Arena.  I think this could be fixed by decreasing their range, so they don't spin their weapons right away.  Let them settle down before spinning.

Spin Doctor and one other bot... it's either Hurricane, Whirlpool, or Cyclone... don't sit-and-spin when they're supposed to.

Staring Problems:

Scrap Daddy pretty much covered it.  Though I think the new Epic is a questionable improvement over the old one.


As for lightweight smart zones, I would recommend Madiaba's.  I use them for BBEANS and they're great.

And I'd also be willing to test it... though I'm sure you'll have no shortage of testers!

2731

Discussion / What makes a good wedge? part 2

« on: February 04, 2009, 09:26:06 PM »

While my investigation into what makes a good wedge confirmed some important things contributing to wedginess, there were still a few variables left untested.  I test them now.

But first, another myth that got me thinking.  Somebody (not proper-noun Somebody) said that either piercing or concussion does more damage than the other depending on whether it hits the chassis or a component.

It makes sense, too.  There should be some difference between piercing and concussion, right?  Otherwise why not just use a single damage stat?

Fortunately, I still had the original test bot that I used when I came up with the current damage potential formula (DP = 183.9P + 100C).  So it was a simple matter to make some adjustments to the Test Spike (the iron spike component on the bot) and test this myth.

First I did two tests on a bare chassis, both with a 100-DP weapon, but one had all piercing damage and the other had all concussion damage.  According to the formula, 0.5438 piercing gives you 100 DP.  If the formula is correct, 0.5438 piercing and 0 concussion should do the same damage as 0 piercing and 1 concussion.



The results: taking the average of 5 trials, the piercing weapon did 95.4 damage, and the concussion weapon did 88.6 damage.  It would appear there is a slight bias towards piercing, but no conclusions can be made just yet.

Next, I put a component over the top of the target bot (named Buster, appropriately).  I used Lu-Tze's kevlar sheet because it's big and flat.



The results: taking the average of 5 trials, the piercing weapon did 130 damage, and the concussion weapon did 124.8 damage.

There was a clear overall increase in damage, but there is no significant difference between piercing and concussion against either the chassis or a component.  By all indications, piercing and concussion are interchangeable.  And, this myth is BUSTED.


Moving on to more wedge myths.  The first one is that putting pressure on the wedge (which is done by lowering the angle of the burst motor below the wheels, so the bot's weight forces the wedge up) makes it better.  This is something I think we all just take for granted, but does anyone really KNOW whether it's true?  I certainly didn't before I tested it.

Fortunately, I still had the original test bots I used for the first wedge tests.  This time I made them both exactly the same, except with Subject A, the wedge was lowered only far enough to touch the ground, while on Subject B, the wedge was lowered as far as it would go without propping up the chassis.



I tested the bots the same way as the first time.  Put both bots in the Small Arena, drive them straight forward, and tally who gets under first.



I did 20 trials, switching the bots' positions after number 10 to ensure that starting position had no effect.  The results: Subject B got under Subject A 15 out of 20 times, or 75%.

It appears that putting pressure on the wedge does indeed make it better.  But, in true Mythbusters fashion, "If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing."  For the next test, I moved the wedge well below the wheels so that it propped up the chassis while keeping the bot driveable, and pitted it against Subject A.



The results: Subject A got under Subject C 10/20 times, or 50%, and vice versa.  The wedges are exactly the same amount good, meaning that Subject C is also worse than Subject B.

So putting pressure on your wedge does make it better, but only to a point.  You don't want to overdo it or your wedge will be no better than one with no pressure at all.  The trick is probably in finding each bot's "sweet spot".

So this myth is CONFIRMED... to a point.


The last myth I'm testing is that a wedge with a steep angle is worse than a low wedge.  You know those vertical Snapper 2's you can either mount with the axle up high or down low?  Everyone uses the low axle for wedges, and when someone uses the high axle everyone tells them to flip it.  But is it really necessary?  Since when have you actually tried a bot with a steep wedge?

For this, I used the same procedure again.



And the results: Subject D got under Subject E 13 out of 20 times, or 65%.

It's not as huge as the pressure test, but angle definitely does make a difference.  And this myth is safe to call CONFIRMED.

2732

Modifications / BBEANS5 Plans

« on: February 04, 2009, 08:28:55 PM »

Heh. I think I was going to have a second bar on both multibots, but Clickbeetle removed it because it clipped the battery.

No, I just moved the bar from the bottom attachment point on the Perm to the top attachment point so it wouldn't intersect the motor.  All the actual components were kept the same.

Also, just in case the question comes up again: you can't have an 801 kg multibot any more than you can have an 801 kg single bot.

2733

Contests / BOTM March 2009

« on: February 04, 2009, 08:23:16 PM »

(hehehe....CB gets screwed this round because there are only 28 days in Feb.......poor CB)

How does that make me screwed?

I actually have an idea for this already.  Not many designs will work with a round chassis but this one might...

2734

Chatterbox / favorite thing to do

« on: February 02, 2009, 01:32:52 AM »

I'm guessing underwater basket weaving is a joke.

Stuff I like to do, besides RA2 and other video games (because everyone likes those):

Reading, writing (fiction... I dislike writing nonfiction as much as the next guy.  I'm currently working on my fantasy epic.  42 pages down (that's single spaced pages mind you), probably some hundreds left to go.)  And insect photography.  My way to collect insects without killing them.

2735

Robots Showcase / Near Chaos Robotics

« on: February 02, 2009, 01:11:31 AM »

Dang, now I need to update the Apollyon replica in DSL.

Oh well, I can update it to be better.  Like that version probably is.

2736

DSL TC Showcases / R0B0SH4RK's DSL Showcase

« on: February 02, 2009, 12:26:03 AM »

That would be a good weapon on a LW.

On a BW...

Makes me think of Megabyte fighting as a middleweight.

But I can imagine it must be unstable.  Firebeetle has a similar BW (Out of the Blue) only with Slap Happy blades instead of Vlad spikes, and it glitched itself to the ceiling of the Combat Arena on occasion.

2737

Stock Showcases / King Mager's showcase

« on: February 02, 2009, 12:18:44 AM »

If you were going to make a 2WD VS, better to make an entirely new bot instead of trying to modify Savior.  Savior is built for 4WD and it wouldn't work without it.  Or at least not as well.  Generally, VS's with small-diameter weapons need 4WD to rush in there and pick up bots, then keep them on top of the weapon.  Especially against HS's.

Now, with a big weapon (like on Clockwork Hydra or Mome Rath) the weapon carries more KE and so you don't need to rely on drive as much to pick up the opponent.

Bottom line: leave Savior with 4WD.

2738

Contests / Vote for BOTM Feb 2009

« on: February 01, 2009, 08:44:42 PM »

It's hard to decide between 2 and 3.  (I don't want to vote for my own, just because.)

I'll go with #3 since Sage won last time.

2739

Discussion / Accuracy

« on: February 01, 2009, 08:35:15 PM »

I also made a couple preset patterns on the 'blueprint' so that I could easily tweak out a chassis that would barely fit a Black or pink battery (or 2), or a black and 2 HP z-teks,...  De-select the "Align to grid" option. I had about 5 chassis designs outlined on the blueprint behind, each in a different color.

Another great idea!  This thread is like a fountain of ingenuity!

Better yet: Have several common components outlined on the grid (Z-tek, battery, baseplate anchor) so you know exactly how big they are in relation to the grid and can easily shape an  efficient chassis.  I can never remember exactly how wide Supervolts are.  Something like that would be immensely helpful.

2740

Stock Showcases / R1885's Showcase

« on: February 01, 2009, 08:16:36 PM »

15 mins on a tourney bot is nothing.

Plus, 4WD HP Z-tek on a tabletop is pretty much guaranteed OOTA.

If you let the AI zoom around at full throttle, then sure.  But you can turn down the max speed of the AI so they will go slower but still push with the power of all four HP-Zteks.  Setting a maxspeed of about 3 should do the trick.