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Messages - 123savethewhales
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1702
« on: January 21, 2011, 12:20:08 AM »
SFTW
1703
« on: January 21, 2011, 12:05:24 AM »
One thing you should highlight or put in bold was that you are using a COMPONENT...... You will be surprise to find out how many reader might skip the preparation spoiler and end up having no idea what you are talking about.
metal(0.1), default concussion = 1, default piercing = 0 all matches the tests that I ran, so I can confirm that.
Funny momentum+pierce deals no damage to chassis at all.
1704
« on: January 20, 2011, 11:15:38 PM »
Can you remove me from the reserved? I am kinna burn out from 123AI and Space Arena.
1705
« on: January 20, 2011, 10:55:20 PM »
so... what about hammers on a motor?
Well, then you get about 500-1000 damage with 3 concussion on a dual perm plus the ram factor...... Whereas with 2.18 piercing you get around 3000 - 6000. I mean it's no secret that VS with razor or ds light deals way more damage than a sledge one even prior to this. The inconvenient factor is that if you swing your hammer with dual perm onto a static razor, you deal your 1000 damage while they return 6000. It's no wonder why sledge VS tends to lose their hammers 20 second into the match. That said, concussion should not be taken lightly on DSL. Because with the 1 to 1.893 ratio that click sets, each concussion DP generates 3.786 times the momentum damage than piercing DP does. If you take full advantage of this (example, see Yoda's first bot), you can generate some pretty outrageous damage with concussion. In Stock though, the Iron Spike might be better for 36HS than mace.
1706
« on: January 20, 2011, 10:28:53 PM »
A Dual Perm really is a minimum requirement for a HW SS if it hope to beat any other bot types. Mag 6 just isn't enough.
1707
« on: January 20, 2011, 11:43:49 AM »
Lol is humanoid VS even allow?
Cuz if yes I am so gonna put a dsl disk on cash cow.
1708
« on: January 20, 2011, 07:33:13 AM »
Lol SF is not button mashing, unless you are playing first version with E-Honda. Crossover body slam + thousand hand tick + fierce throw + thousand hand block damage = win.
1709
« on: January 19, 2011, 09:38:03 PM »
Changed the title and added some new findings.
1710
« on: January 19, 2011, 06:45:31 PM »
Given the piercing is so significantly lower than concussion in DSL, things that does boost piercing, such as flail, might be the only way they are balanced at all. You are paying 4kg to boost piercing to the concussion level. Even then Crosswind consistently de-weapon RPP. Only reason RPP is used over Crosswind is for its sweeping power.
Besides under your argument burst motor with razor will also be cheating.
1711
« on: January 19, 2011, 10:58:42 AM »
The ant battery was known to be the best way before click's discovery. Click's work only reduced the amount of ants actually used.
As for motors, just forget slim and TWM drive exists. Go strait from Astralflight + Hypno to NPC + Mini.
Wouldn't TWM + Hypnos be better due to wheel hitpoints?
Short answer no Long answer. NPC + Mini cost 45kg, TWM + Hypno cost 48kg. The 3 KG is enough to go NPC + Rubber, which is superior in both drive and HP. Not to mention even if you ignore the 3kg difference, TWM + Hypno is still worst than NPC + Mini. You are stuck with being a lot slower (twm3), or a little slower but a 400 HP motor (twmR).
1712
« on: January 19, 2011, 10:51:55 AM »
I tried. It's odd, but skirt hinge does not boost damage of piercing.
My guess is that piercing only gets boosted when the axle is moving, that just isn't the case for skirt hinge during initial contact.
You really should try this and see if you get the same results I do. I still find my own test results hard to believe.
1713
« on: January 19, 2011, 10:44:22 AM »
Humm here's another non controversial finding.
Burst motors, like axles, boost the damage of piercing. So it's no wonder why razors are so good on popups too.
So yeah, razors on flails and popups, DS light + Beater on other stuff, just the way it is now.
1714
« on: January 19, 2011, 10:26:06 AM »
Not really, not with the new damage findings (see the other post I just made on tutorial and tips). How to have anything other than the lightest component usable is going to be a challenge.
1715
« on: January 19, 2011, 10:12:45 AM »
excuse me while I dwell on but a small aspect
does this mean with metal (0.8) you can apply damage ability to other components?
say.. a Flamethrower spike?
Yes.
1716
« on: January 19, 2011, 10:08:56 AM »
But remember, this test is specifically for static weapons. See flail double damage on piercing, and I haven't try to see what other axles does the same. Who knows maybe burst motor boost piercing damage also. Someone need to try that. Don't take my word for it. Try the experiment I listed yourself. The result is so counter conventional wisdom that I am having a hard time believing it, but that's where all the evidences are pointing at. Certainly a good bit of research you did there, 123. However, I'm not certain that it'll drastically alter the way bots are built too much.
And maybe beaters are better than people imagine. Hence why my Valid Query series is so damaging. =P
You will not be surprise to find out that it makes no difference whatsoever. DS Light + Light beater on non flail, Razor on Flails, just the way it is now. DS Light is still somewhat better than light beater due to it's superior damage (because for some reason DS light has huge amount of concussion).
1717
« on: January 19, 2011, 09:47:43 AM »
I. Pierce VS Concussion.
When ramming 2 static weapons together, Concussion deals 2x the damage of pierce point by point.
Piercing is enhanced significantly more by moving components (piston, spin, burst, flail) compare to concussion for both side. The faster the movement, the better piercing is over concussion.
Therefore, piercing is always preferred on moving components
Static piercing can be used for countering moving components
Static concussion are good for Rams and non Flail SnS, as their damage are greatly increased by the actual bot's movement.
I concluded that piercing and concussion has no direct linear relationship. The damage formula should be something like this
M = Combined Momentum
S = Combined Speed of Axle
X = Momentum multiplier
Y = Speed multiplier
P = Piercing
C = Concussion
Damage = X*M*P + Y*S*P + 2X*M*C + f(Y)*S*C
Y is significantly stronger than f(Y), though I haven't figure out exactly.
II. Initial Fracture.
Initial fracture means any component, after losing all it's HP, still takes one more hit to kill. So when razor tip lose it's 1000 HP in 1 or 2 hits, it gets another hit before getting destroyed. This means razor tips dissipates from 33% to a few hundred % damage received in spillover. Whereas the sledge hammer hit receives all the damage. It's no wonder why many small weapons are so much better.
This also makes sledge hammer better at light weight, but becomes less effective at heavy weight. Less damage per hit means less damage getting spill over.
III. Anything else discovered during this damage test?
Yes, metal value does not add damage on it's own, it is a damage multiplier. The default for weapon is metal(0.8). So if you want a non weapon component to deal damage, simply set its metal value to 0.8, and add whatever piercing/concussion you want.
1718
« on: January 19, 2011, 02:15:06 AM »
Thats right, But if you dont care about Sexyness or anything... Avira is the best, It has the best Detection rates of all :P
Avast is also awesome, Im currently using Avast Internet Security cause my Avira expired D:
What makes you think that?
1719
« on: January 19, 2011, 01:29:03 AM »
DSL bbeans is more about matchups than stock.
1720
« on: January 19, 2011, 12:34:45 AM »
I have a pretty good idea of how they correlate but telling you now would spoil the surprise. All my notes on the subject will be in the Mythbuster's thread after I'm finished testing.
I see what you mean by surprise. Metal value doesn't add, it alters. I think we need to throw this old 189.3 vs 100 out the window now. Edit: This is not good, the numbers are not making any sense....... It will take me some time to make sense of this. Edit2: Apparently I don't need the material at all, even without material tag, extenders damage can be boosted simply by giving it a very high concussion value. Edit3: The 183.9 to 100 theory is DEFINITELY wrong. Concussion consistently deals 2x the damage as pierce on weapon to weapon clash. This is what I do The test I did was simple, I made 2 sledge hammers, one with 3 concussion, one with 3 piercing. I ram them at each other at the start, and concussion deals 2x the damage of pierce every time. Being greatly disturbed, I checked for error over and over again, but find nothing. Anyone who is in doubt can feel free to replicate this experiment. Be sure to include concussion = 0 on your piercing weapon, or it will be set with a default of 1. I repeat the experiment with razor tips, same thing. The concussion razor tip always beats piercing with the same value by about 2x damage. I don't know how to make sense of this. I suspect Click made a mistake on his test by leaving out "concussion = 0" on his piercing weapon, therefore inherited the default concussion value of 1 and made piercing seem a lot stronger than it is. As far as metal, it seems that weapon has a default value of metal(0.8). Therefore, if you want other components to deal damage like a normal weapon, simply set metal (0.8) then type in piercing/concussion as you would normally.
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