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Messages - Clickbeetle
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1241
« on: January 30, 2011, 10:19:47 PM »
as all piercing weapons gain a boost from spinning and concussion doesnt, we dropped the concussion value for Backlash weapons..
so you can use them as static but they will deal more damage as spinners.. which is the point of the mod all in all..
Note my piercing HS vs. piercing rammer test though. In that case both bots were de-weaponed at the same time with equal weapons. So piercing weapons ONLY gain an advantage when spinning against concussion weapons and non-weapons. Simply put, it seems that piercing gets the boost if EITHER bot has spinning weapons--it doesn't matter if the piercing weapons are on the spinner or getting hit by the spinner. And if BOTH bots have spinning weapons, then piercing gets an even bigger boost.
1242
« on: January 30, 2011, 10:09:42 PM »
Just the tip... But wouldent that make them almost useless for popups..?
Since you wont be able to hit them from the side anymore :P
EXACTLY.  Just a question: Will the DSL Bars be made more damaging so that they work more like in real life? If so, you should make it so the end attachmant points are gone and they have no normals so they function more like real life too.
DSL bars will most likely have higher DP. I will keep the attach points though.
1243
« on: January 30, 2011, 09:58:44 PM »
OK I was doing some messing around with some test bots to find out how piercing and concussion relate to each other.
I made a rammer and a horizontal spinner each with three custom weapons which I could set the stats on separately. I tested several combinations of rammer, spinner, piercing weapons, and concussion weapons and adjusted the piercing or concussion values on one of the weapons until the two bots scored approximately equal points and were both de-weaponed at the same time. This gives an approximate damage ratio between piercing and concussion.
The results:
Piercing rammer vs. Concussion rammer:
1.8 piercing = 1 concussion
Piercing HS vs. Concussion HS:
1 piercing = 2.2 concussion
Piercing HS vs. Piercing rammer:
1 piercing = 1 piercing
Concussion HS vs. Concussion rammer:
1 concussion = 1 concussion
Piercing HS vs. Concussion rammer:
1 piercing = 1.8 concussion
Concussion HS vs. Piercing rammer
1.8 concussion = 1 piercing
I used a custom motor for the HS as well which I could adjust the speed on. These results were the same for any speed 10-40 and probably higher speeds as well (there is a lot of difference between 10 and 40 speed but no difference in damage ratios).
Conclusions:
- The old DP formula DP = 183.9 P + 100C is still approximately correct for cases involving moving weapons against static weapons. It is also still correct for cases of moving weapons against non-weapons (as shown by my original tests in developing that formula).
- The piercing/concussion ratio is apparently reversed in cases involving static weapons against other static weapons. This is consistent with 123's tests.
- The piercing/concussion ratio is even higher than 1.839 in cases involving moving weapons against other moving weapons.
Practical bot building conclusions?
- Under the old DP formula, piercing weapons are better on spinners and concussion weapons are better on rammers.
- If piercing and concussion are treated as equal, piercing weapons are always better except in rammer vs. rammer battles.
Component balancing conclusions?
- Components will have different balance depending on whether they are moving or static.
- The only way to make all components 100% balanced is to use the same ratio of piercing/concussion on all of them (Might not be a bad idea to just use pure concussion, as this would nerf the damage bonus to flail weapons).
1244
« on: January 30, 2011, 12:38:58 AM »
Sage concepted it, Inf improved it..... Then Clickbeetle somehow discovered it first for no correctly explored reason other then the fact he is Clickbeetle :P
That's right! I also built the first popup in case you didn't know. And I discovered the eFFe glitch. (Then why is it called the eFFe glitch? SILENCE FOOL, YOU KNOW NOTHING.) :P Anyways, back on topic--the VS looks awesome, R0B0. Is there any way you could tilt the chassis further upwards and get a bigger disc? Chained VS work best with big discs.
1245
« on: January 30, 2011, 12:26:33 AM »
The first bot actually wouldn't be too bad to rebuild for BTTB; you just need to make a tribar HS.
1246
« on: January 30, 2011, 12:08:32 AM »
Needs 4 wheel drive.
Well, not necessarily. You could go the Dark July route. Priority #1 here should be getting a Supervolt IMO. Then you can use the DDT's as flippers in an emergency... I guess... though the wedges will probably be broken by the time all the spikes are gone. In which case Snapper2's might be better.
1247
« on: January 29, 2011, 11:37:18 PM »
Also, 2,500 is the highest you can go for a UHW multibot, because the weight limit is 5,000
Not necessarily, you could have a 3666.2 kg bot and a 1333.8 kg bot.
1248
« on: January 29, 2011, 11:34:46 PM »
Did you try a 40cm angled skirt attached to the flipper segment just to the left of the Perm? I think that would work.
Or put the Perm on the TOP attach point of the multiextender with the belt going straight out horizontally, so it won't get hit as easily, and then put some armor piece in the front of the bot to protect the chassis.
1249
« on: January 29, 2011, 11:21:21 PM »
I see nothing wrong with the drive.
Unless you mean those poly extenders going over the dual Perm. Yeah, you could mount the drive closer to the chassis and get rid of the extenders... but it's not critical.
And flail sledgehammers aren't useless, are they? They don't score ludicrous damage like flail razors, but surely they would be no worse than static hammers?
In any case, you could get by with either static hammers or flail razors easily and probably improve the bot.
1250
« on: January 29, 2011, 10:20:13 PM »
I think that Metal Hinges and other removed DSL 2 parts should stay as DSL 3 Cheatbot2 parts. And what will you do about the weapons like razor tips with the normals?
Razors will only do damage with the tip. The only problematic weapon is the mace... I will either remove it, or give it a huge efficiency handicap. Like half of normal weapons.
1251
« on: January 29, 2011, 10:08:04 PM »
OK here's what I was planning. Just to stop this debate here.
- There will be at most 15 teams of replica bots. As many as possible will be existing replicas revamped to be more competitive. The rest will be new. Some previous replicas may not reappear in DSL3.
Now I know this is controversial because the replicas are not seen to add anything to the game except nostalgia. Well, that's not quite true. They also add COMPONENTS--a lot of them, some of which are useless on regular bots, but others which can be very useful. An example is the new axle extender I made. I made that because I needed it for El Diablo, but then I realized it would be a useful stock component as well. Expect a bunch of new replica parts in DSL3.
Also, the stock DSL AI is not supposed to be super difficult. That's what AI packs are for. Keep in mind that fresh noobs will download this too and they won't be ready for 123AI-level difficulty. The replicas will be tougher than they were in DSL2, but still beatable with any decent bot.
And lastly, DSL started out as a balanced replica pack to counter the AU Battlebots pack, and it wouldn't feel right to leave them out.
- If I get lazy, I will make less than 15 teams of replicas and fill the rest with bots made with stock DSL3 parts. Obviously this can't be done until everything else is finished, however.
- There will not be very many new arenas. Maybe 1 or 2.
- Components will be rebalanced of course... but I am having a hard time deciding how to do this as more about the damage formula is learned.
My most recent thought is to go the Backlash and Space Arena route where no weapons have normals, except backwards--EVERY weapon has normals. This will make it much more difficult to simply spam weapons and count on out-weaponing your opponent--you also have to think about how those weapons are placed. I think weapon designs could become much more strategic and less about outweaponing (though outweaponing will certainly still be a major factor). It also eliminates the need for trying to balance normal weapons with non-normal weapons.
Then, due to 123's observations on the spillover effect and light weapons always being better than heavy ones, and high DP weapons always being better than low DP ones due to hitting non-weapons, I was thinking to make all the heavy weapons shifted toward higher DP and all the light weapons low DP. 123 will probably point out some major flaw with that plan though...
- There will be new components, but some old components will also disappear. In particular some of those weird replica components like the Typhoon flag and Firestorm air tank, but also the metal hinge. Now this isn't some blind reaction to try and stop the wedge war--I'm not so naive as that. But getting rid of the metal hinge will force players to use other hinge components--most importantly, other components that AGOD less frequently. The end result should be wedges are just as good, but there's less AGOD and everyone is happy.
- The race mode may be postponed and released as a later addon, to save time.
1252
« on: January 29, 2011, 09:32:37 PM »
Yeah, you get the SFTW award if you lose in the first round.
1253
« on: January 29, 2011, 09:30:52 PM »
Aha! Try reducing the radius a bit. If the radius is too big, bots will tend to turn around and drive away from the walls and also have trouble navigating around hazards (as PCB clearly did in that match). I almost never use a radius bigger than 1.2.
1254
« on: January 29, 2011, 09:09:17 PM »
I found a Troll.gmf under Arenas/event_results/prizes/bbeans/
and Troll face under the maps folder in there.
That's just a new "prize" you get if you lose in the finals in some events. Not really one of the main easter eggs. Lol, I really made this hard, didn't I? Well, someone will find them eventually in the course of modding their game.
1255
« on: January 29, 2011, 09:02:55 PM »
Yeah, the second would be easier, but how do I make navigation? :P
Correct me if Im wrong Click...but it would be the same thing you told me to tweak on the CCIV arena in the python? with the python walls?
That's half of it. You need collision lines, but if there's an obstacle in the middle the AI has to drive around, you also need POVs. You can just copy the CollisionLines and POVs from the BBEANS arena and modify the coordinates to fit the Onslaught Arena.
1256
« on: January 29, 2011, 08:45:32 PM »
Definitely #1. I want to see a video of that in action.
And for some reason, something tells me it's not JoeBlo's... I don't know why. I wouldn't be surprised if it WAS Joe's, though.
Is that you implying indirectly that it is in fact yours ? 
No, I already said I wasn't entering because my bot turned into a nuclear Havok/AGOD bomb. I think it's the font, come to think of it... it just doesn't look like a font that Joe would use. Now if I imagine that splash with some slick sci-fi style text... yeah it's probably Joe's. 
1257
« on: January 29, 2011, 08:31:46 PM »
Definitely #1. I want to see a video of that in action.
And for some reason, something tells me it's not JoeBlo's... I don't know why. I wouldn't be surprised if it WAS Joe's, though.
1258
« on: January 29, 2011, 08:23:54 PM »
ROFL Kamikaze Cube used Confusion!
Perfect Cherry Blossom is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
:P
Seriously, that's the most friendly fire I've ever seen in a match. What AI is PCB using?
1259
« on: January 26, 2011, 12:29:57 AM »
Lol, I see you continued the trend of Naryar's giant razor trophy on his desk.  And awesome to see JD back, with a new comic too... just don't think about Squirrel_Monkey's origins now.
1260
« on: January 25, 2011, 11:29:47 PM »
Woah that's like rammer-class weapons. On a VS. Scary... if it was stable.
You'd have to use a wee bit less weapon weight in order to make it more stable though.
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