TL:DR Ra2 is sucky

[Badnik96]

ra2 is boring and hella ****ing stale and thats why i dipped from the ra2 discords i was in yesterday because i cant bring myself to play the game while watching it slowly spiral to its death.

ai tournaments are dead. period. redace is killing it with deathmatch but its the same old routine. you can tell whos going to win just by looking at the splash and picking the bot that can win most easily by driving forward and gut ripping whatever comes its way. multiplayer is the wave but the game is so broken that skill is hardly rewarded, especially since the main online tournament going on seems to prefer number of entries over actually arranging a proper fight schedule. ive voiced my concerns over on pws several times and they seem to have fallen on deaf ears.

the existence of gtm as a community going forward has to hinge on rr2 and how robust of a robot fighting sim it can be. ra2 thrived when the community played to its strengths and worked to optimize the sh** out of unrealistic murder machines, and that ship sailed once hax mode came out and everyone that played the "standard" metas realized there were no further horizons to pursue.

gtm would also do better as a whole if the main discord wasn't run by total sh**posters who seem to not care theyre controlling the figurehead of the entire ra2 community, and i think it gives the rest of the groups sort of a bad reputation when it comes to spreading out and roping in new blood

also orc's "if you have an argument youre a bad person and need to go away" moderating style is the worst thing about him and is probably the reason that discord has the problems hop mentioned

[NickyDustyOwl]

Reading this thread is so depressing. I think RA2 is a good game, but we just dont have enough members in the community.

Combine that with ARC being better than us (Embarrassingly), then GTM is left here to die.

[09090901]

Reading this thread is so depressing. I think RA2 is a good game, but we just dont have enough members in the community.

Combine that with ARC being better than us (Embarrassingly), then GTM is left here to die.

the ra2 community is still relatively large, it's just not entirely concentrated on gtm nowadays. iirc, OW4 has around 64 unique entrants, which is an extremely good  turnout for a tournament in 2019, and i believe pws6 had somewhere in the 50s??

and yes the gtm discord is sh**. we've removed all invite links to it and revoked invite privileges for that reason. that being said, even if it wasn't, i don't see people actually using it besides boomers who haven't played the game in years. active builders are just going to stick to PWS or OW as those are more active and have a larger active userbase, and it would just end up like the rwl or ahol discords (no offense to the owners)

maybe staff just see's things differently. we really don't look at the community as just gtm anymore, but more so the greater ra2 community at large since like 9/10th of our userbase is also active on pws/ow/oota/ms2/whatever server is hip. it's not as simple as it used to be in 2009 where this was your only option for ra2. without trying to sound like a condescending prick, i don't think people understand the situation of where gtm sits if this is your only community that you're a part of.

if people want, we'll completely restructure staff to be more 'gtm' focused. i really don't mind stepping down and neither does 09. also, ive talked with people somewhat recently about making a serious open ra2 discord to replace the gtm one. it wouldn't necessarily be a 'gtm' focused server, but it would serve as a good starting point i feel

on an unrelated note in regards to modding: we really need to just update the CE with the most commonly used mods and call it 2.3 cause rn to be up to date with the irl scene you need to download an additional 5+ files. i've been posting some minor updates in the ow discord (new collision meshes, updated .pys, etc), and i know that bild and kix have also done a few things done as well. realistically this would probably be the best time to add them without making compatibility a total nightmare

[CodeSilver23]

Is there anything we as individuals can do to help this community? I’ve only been with you guys for about 4 months, so I’ve never seen y’all in your hay day, but I feel slightly responsible to do whatever I can to get GTM back on track. I really don’t want to see it go to sh**, so please, if there’s anything I could do to help, I’ll do my best to do it.

[kix]

I guess i have to drop my feedback on stuff:

TOURNAMENTS:

I agree on what has been said, They are all completely the same
Interesting ones seem to have terrible hosts, bad meta noone plays or just never finish
The OW ruleset is a bit yikes, and orc himself said that he is not proud of it

MODDING:
Idk what to say bout DSL, if they improve it, good job i guess. I dont see that this will be done for few years. Heck i'd mod stuff but
A: Apparently my wheels are sh** and that is making me feel epic
B: Modding would mean motivation, and i dont have enough motivation to even play ra2
Geese is making ra2 better and i wish him luck, but a one man job is not good, look at 2.3

DISCORDS:
GTM - I have no feelings for that server, i honestly am there for CS
OW - Now that is currently the best RA2 server, the talking variety is there, but i do have some gripes
1. Where is the goddamn option to change my nickname
2. Mods - GM's do nothing that im aware of, maybe a secret judging channel or something, but Main moderators consist of: Toxic Hop, Sev, and Somene i dont have much respect about as i dont really know him. He became a mod as soon as he joined

PWS - Its PWS, talk is mostly pws related, and Sev is doing a good job of moderating

ZOOMERS:
Zoomers are zoomers, we all were zoomers one we joined, some change, some dont

GARFIE:
Garfie is a god


tl:dr Ill miss Toxic Hops red letters


This has been my TED talk

[09090901]

Is there anything we as individuals can do to help this community? I’ve only been with you guys for about 4 months, so I’ve never seen y’all in your hay day, but I feel slightly responsible to do whatever I can to get GTM back on track. I really don’t want to see it go to sh**, so please, if there’s anything I could do to help, I’ll do my best to do it.

just actually use it. the biggest issue gtm has is that people only hang out in their discords and they never feel the need to use the forums.

[TheOrcCorp]

OW - Now that is currently the best RA2 server, the talking variety is there, but i do have some gripes
1. Where is the goddamn option to change my nickname
2. Mods - GM's do nothing that im aware of, maybe a secret judging channel or something, but Main moderators consist of: Toxic Hop, Sev, and Somene i dont have much respect about as i dont really know him. He became a mod as soon as he joined

Aye, the GMs help out with decisions and episode matchcards! Hop and BSRaven were given promotions in wake of this post/Mine and Hop's talks (Hop for GTM representation, Rabe for OW representation, Sev for PWS/neutral representation and me overlooking it all) and I hope we can bash our heads together and start making good changes not just for OW but for RA2 overall.

Yes my previous attitude/bending knee/pov wasn't the best but as I've addressed in my previous comment, I'm hoping these changes alongside personal changes for myself and the future help as well. I'm here to try and help make things better and I know some people may doubt that but I'm hoping to prove it. I appreciate the feedback a lot Kix and thanks for your words yesterday.

[Dark-Al]

From what everyone has listed about the problems with RA2 and GTM so far, it something that I do agree with. Most of these reasons were why I stopped playing RA2, not just because I didn't have the time or effort to put into the game, but also from being happening over the forums. One point I would make is around tournaments gtm and why I don't participate in tournaments that much: all the tournaments hosted on the site have all been using the DSL-IRL meta,  every other meta include stock and ironforge is dead. In turn, every time someone tries to host a tournament which runs on any of the dead metas or attempting to revive said meta, barely anyone jumps to the gun when sign-ups are open.

I've nothing against the DSL-IRL meta even if it's not my cup of tea, since there are plenty good bots and tournaments, but I'm just pointing about that because the tournaments on GTM have been doing nothing but DSL-IRL. This may be because DSL-IRL is very easy to get into from a new player's pov since you just design a robot like what you see on shows like Battlebots and Robot Wars, with having to follow key rules including no part intersection etc. Stock and Ironforge on the other hand is different, while there is no restrictions, but the level of requirement for both this metas including glitches and building a bot for effectiveness over looks, is enough to put off any new comers to the meta and thus cause a general decline in users enter such tournaments.

In turn and would sound stupid: I do feel that gtm should do more with using the dead metas in tournaments to gather interest from new users, and possibly try a see a new bloom instead of concluding that meta is dead, and we should just focus on DSL-IRL for the next two or more years.

[TheRoboteer]

From what everyone has listed about the problems with RA2 and GTM so far, it something that I do agree with. Most of these reasons were why I stopped playing RA2, not just because I didn't have the time or effort to put into the game, but also from being happening over the forums. One point I would make is around tournaments gtm and why I don't participate in tournaments that much: all the tournaments hosted on the site have all been using the DSL-IRL meta,  every other meta include stock and ironforge is dead. In turn, every time someone tries to host a tournament which runs on any of the dead metas or attempting to revive said meta, barely anyone jumps to the gun when sign-ups are open.

I've nothing against the DSL-IRL meta even if it's not my cup of tea, since there are plenty good bots and tournaments, but I'm just pointing about that because the tournaments on GTM have been doing nothing but DSL-IRL. This may be because DSL-IRL is very easy to get into from a new player's pov since you just design a robot like what you see on shows like Battlebots and Robot Wars, with having to follow key rules including no part intersection etc. Stock and Ironforge on the other hand is different, while there is no restrictions, but the level of requirement for both this metas including glitches and building a bot for effectiveness over looks, is enough to put off any new comers to the meta and thus cause a general decline in users enter such tournaments.

In turn and would sound stupid: I do feel that gtm should do more with using the dead metas in tournaments to gather interest from new users, and possibly try a see a new bloom instead of concluding that meta is dead, and we should just focus on DSL-IRL for the next two or more years.

Nobody plays stock, IF, DSL-S etc because none of the advocates for it are actually active enough to push any newbie towards it.

[090901]

Nobody plays stock, IF, DSL-S etc because none of the advocates for it are actually active enough to push any newbie towards it.

imo the reason nobody plays builds it is because there is no room left for innovation since everything has become so well optimized so unless you are doing PVP you can basically bet 1/2 to 3/4ths of the enteries to a tourney are gonna follow the same basically formula since you gotta if you want to win.

[ACAMS]

WTFL:DETTR

[Dark-Al]

From what everyone has listed about the problems with RA2 and GTM so far, it something that I do agree with. Most of these reasons were why I stopped playing RA2, not just because I didn't have the time or effort to put into the game, but also from being happening over the forums. One point I would make is around tournaments gtm and why I don't participate in tournaments that much: all the tournaments hosted on the site have all been using the DSL-IRL meta,  every other meta include stock and ironforge is dead. In turn, every time someone tries to host a tournament which runs on any of the dead metas or attempting to revive said meta, barely anyone jumps to the gun when sign-ups are open.

I've nothing against the DSL-IRL meta even if it's not my cup of tea, since there are plenty good bots and tournaments, but I'm just pointing about that because the tournaments on GTM have been doing nothing but DSL-IRL. This may be because DSL-IRL is very easy to get into from a new player's pov since you just design a robot like what you see on shows like Battlebots and Robot Wars, with having to follow key rules including no part intersection etc. Stock and Ironforge on the other hand is different, while there is no restrictions, but the level of requirement for both this metas including glitches and building a bot for effectiveness over looks, is enough to put off any new comers to the meta and thus cause a general decline in users enter such tournaments.

In turn and would sound stupid: I do feel that gtm should do more with using the dead metas in tournaments to gather interest from new users, and possibly try a see a new bloom instead of concluding that meta is dead, and we should just focus on DSL-IRL for the next two or more years.

Nobody plays stock, IF, DSL-S etc because none of the advocates for it are actually active enough to push any newbie towards it.

That's the point. Since every other meta including Stock, IF, DSl-S is dead, then tournament hosts would just assume "Why bother setting my tournament meta to something like Stock etc. if no one is going to enter?" Therefore the majority of tournament hosts would go and focus on the most active meta which happens to be DSL-IRL, in turn continues the complacent syndrome, encouraging users to continue focusing on the DSL-IRL meta, no one would want to play any of the other meta, and soon they're considered dead by the community.

imo the reason nobody plays builds it is because there is no room left for innovation since everything has become so well optimized so unless you are doing PVP you can basically bet 1/2 to 3/4ths of the enteries to a tourney are gonna follow the same basically formula since you gotta if you want to win.

   
There is no innovation left in stock, everyone knows that all tournament entries in stock are going to either be tri-bar spinners or pop-ups. It still doesn't stop users from trying hence RedAlert, even if we did shoot him down for his "discoveries". As for Ironforge, it's the same story with DSL-S since both metas follow the same paths in designs, expect with componment changes. But I also believe that DSL-IRL is guilty of this as well, and I'm ready to be booed upon for this. But when thinking about it, you may some innovation for something like cooler vertical spinner that's on an axle bot chassis that you made with drums, but to the core it's still a vertical spinner, it's nothing really new it's done before. Once you see one vertical spinner, you've seen them all. I know they are all different, but that's how I see the meta really.

[TheRoboteer]

From what everyone has listed about the problems with RA2 and GTM so far, it something that I do agree with. Most of these reasons were why I stopped playing RA2, not just because I didn't have the time or effort to put into the game, but also from being happening over the forums. One point I would make is around tournaments gtm and why I don't participate in tournaments that much: all the tournaments hosted on the site have all been using the DSL-IRL meta,  every other meta include stock and ironforge is dead. In turn, every time someone tries to host a tournament which runs on any of the dead metas or attempting to revive said meta, barely anyone jumps to the gun when sign-ups are open.

I've nothing against the DSL-IRL meta even if it's not my cup of tea, since there are plenty good bots and tournaments, but I'm just pointing about that because the tournaments on GTM have been doing nothing but DSL-IRL. This may be because DSL-IRL is very easy to get into from a new player's pov since you just design a robot like what you see on shows like Battlebots and Robot Wars, with having to follow key rules including no part intersection etc. Stock and Ironforge on the other hand is different, while there is no restrictions, but the level of requirement for both this metas including glitches and building a bot for effectiveness over looks, is enough to put off any new comers to the meta and thus cause a general decline in users enter such tournaments.

In turn and would sound stupid: I do feel that gtm should do more with using the dead metas in tournaments to gather interest from new users, and possibly try a see a new bloom instead of concluding that meta is dead, and we should just focus on DSL-IRL for the next two or more years.

Nobody plays stock, IF, DSL-S etc because none of the advocates for it are actually active enough to push any newbie towards it.

That's the point. Since every other meta including Stock, IF, DSl-S is dead, then tournament hosts would just assume "Why bother setting my tournament meta to something like Stock etc. if no one is going to enter?" Therefore the majority of tournament hosts would go and focus on the most active meta which happens to be DSL-IRL, in turn continues the complacent syndrome, encouraging users to continue focusing on the DSL-IRL meta, no one would want to play any of the other meta, and soon they're considered dead by the community.

I think the onus is on the people who want DSL-S and unrealistic to make a comeback to encourage newbies to try it, rather than on the people who are fine with IRL to do so.

[Sickle robotics]

I’ve been losing interest in RA2 for awhile now, don’t like Ironforge, Stock is only good for making reps, don’t care about DSL-S, and have gotten tired of the IRL meta.

I would really like to see RA2 get better with mods or a completely new version but I doubt anyone can without using the same engine.

overall while GTM is basically dead discord is the next best thing and has help the community grow recently and I like this community and I do want to see it grow.

I really want to quit RA2, leave GTM, and just stick to gmod, I’ve ran out of ideas and don’t want to just make unoriginal sh*t anymore, GTM is now a wasteland filled with more RR2 then RA2

[kill343gs]

While it's true that we've been winding down for a long time here, and folks have been preaching the end is upon us for nearly a decade now, I can't help but feel a little bit responsible for for all of this. I tried my ass off to make those connections with other communities, and for whatever reason I failed. And that pretty much killed my mojo, so I left. I was the guy who always kept grinding, and always kept pushing forward. I always had that small glimmer of hope that we could survive. And then I was gone. And I didn't even really explain why. I didn't even tell anyone I had left. I didn't exactly leave you all with the best odds going forward.

Geice and 09 do (did?) care. They did a ton of work with me to try and make the most of what we had left. Not everything we did worked, but I would say that a lot of it did, at least for a while. And then I abandoned you all, and they got a job they never wanted. This is a thankless job, like being a kicker in american football. Nobody gives a **** until something is going wrong. I don't blame anybody on the staff at this point for being worn out. The fact that anyone is still here at all, with all the negativity going around, is insane.
(Side note, apanx is a saint for keeping things running behind the scenes, and we wouldn't even be here with the opportunity to complain about our lives without him)

I actually agree that a central RA2 discord hub would be one of the best things going forward, but it would be extremely difficult to do. People in power from all those communities would have to want that. We tried to bring staff in from all the different places when we rebuilt the discord, but few wanted any part of it and even fewer stuck around. Removing the GTM brand from the top of the server would be a step in the right direction, but that's only one variable. There would need to be a ton of planning on how that space was shared by all the different communities, how it would be staffed, what purposes does it intend to serve. I'm willing to throw my hat into the ring one more time to help, but the first time around I wasn't even allowed to visit half of the servers because of where I was coming from.

[Mystic2000]

RA2's main issue, strictly as a game, is how ****ing boring everything has gotten, the efficiency oriented metas all have been explored to their breaking point, and no-one can be assed anymore to try making an alternate environment for it to try to make it interesting again (something like using unorthodox arenas like Mars Base, or having some odd requirement/restriction like Scrapheap Challenge for examples), and IRL's entire existence is a conflict of interest, because on one end you wanna make something cool cause that's the point of the IRL style of building, and on the other hand the entire tournament side of things is just "okay, from this roster, who is the biggest scum who abused how busted RA2 is the most ?"

Parsec was kinda cool for a bit cause it was new and cause online fights's always gonna be better than a braindead AI, but even then you still can't avoid all the problems IRL has relying on a busted af 16 year old game to realistically simulate things

the reason why i was so interested in RACCOON, is tying into the point i'm making, it was a new and different take on IRL from what we do here, it wasn't the same IRL that has flooded tournaments since years now

TL:DR try to make something different so stuff isn't the same boring and stale af things we see over and over and over

[kix]

GTM already welcomes RR2 even in alpha condition so i dont see the forum dying soon

[RpJk]

I think as well talking about RA2 is that we all managed to make this admittedly extremely niche game alive for 17-18 years. This community is as older than YouTube, Reddit and most other communities and social media. We should be proud of ourselves for that. All of us no matter how much we visit here or played the game have kept it alive for this long. It's now how to continue its life of both game and community since times have greatly changed. I've moved on to other ventures personally as I've lost interest in RA2 years ago and now graphic design, anime, other games and creative writing took over for me.
Still I greatly valued the time here and was a pillar of my life when I was going through uncertainty back in 2011.

We've exhausted the game to hell in all sides. Outside of the low chance of the source code being obtained there's not much we can do. RR2 seems to be a closest thing to a direction here for the community.
Like I said I've moved on and I'm residing on Reddit under a new name. I'm here just to provide vocal support after seeing this. You guys can't give up.

[09090901]

Nobody plays stock, IF, DSL-S etc because none of the advocates for it are actually active enough to push any newbie towards it.

imo the reason nobody plays builds it is because there is no room left for innovation since everything has become so well optimized so unless you are doing PVP you can basically bet 1/2 to 3/4ths of the enteries to a tourney are gonna follow the same basically formula since you gotta if you want to win.

that only really applies to the boomers, zoomers just flat out have 0 interest and think the metas look disgusting. they just view them as skillless weapon spam fests

also doesn't help that it seems the preffered method of encouraging people to branch out to other metas is bashing on irl

[Badger]

RE weapon balancing: It's so difficult to perfectly balance weapons, it not just a linear weight:damage scale you can adhere to. The mesh is such a big deal, and it's effect on balancing is unquantifiable, so you can't solve the balancing issue with spreadsheets unless you feel like removing a load of components to make a tiny mesh pool like IF.

Btw thanks for this iteration of the bi-yearly doompost. Let me know if there's a rota for it or something.