Author Topic: The DSL 2.2 preview and news thread (Read 322172 times)

Pwnator · « **Reply #880 on:** February 03, 2011, 06:06:02 AM »

Sledges exist for a reason.

madman3 · « **Reply #881 on:** February 03, 2011, 06:08:08 AM »

Quote from: Pwnator on February 03, 2011, 06:06:02 AM

Sledges exist for a reason.

Fair, fair.

cephalopod · « **Reply #882 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:42:54 PM »

Quote from: madman3 on February 03, 2011, 05:54:25 AM

It'll prevent LW VS

Yeah, have you seen 99% of my LW VS? :P

123savethewhales · « **Reply #883 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:21:08 AM »

Why do people keep saying popup will be gone when I already post an sample of one with normal weapon?

A lot of other things will be gone, but not the popups. Relatively they will be even more OP.

JoeBlo · « **Reply #884 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:42:52 AM »

only thing that will be gone will be razor popups..

wont take long for someone to find something that works the same..

powerrave · « **Reply #885 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:58:48 AM »

Main thing I hope that this will bring is more different designs in tournaments that half of the entries being Popups.

Scorpion · « **Reply #886 on:** February 04, 2011, 10:51:58 AM »

Nope, I think 123's right, by the sounds of things spinners in particular will suffer more than popups, TBH i'm not quite sure about this idea, but we can do nothing but wait and see really.

Naryar · « **Reply #887 on:** February 04, 2011, 11:39:43 AM »

Every single bot type that attacks with spinning will fair much worse with normals.

Badnik96 · « **Reply #888 on:** February 04, 2011, 04:29:32 PM »

The new burst motors will make popups impossible or unefficient.

With normals on weapons rammers and pokers will become the best bot type. There is no way to evenly balance the bot types so everything is equal. It will still be a weapon/wedge war. Maybe drum bots can beat this but they are hard to build real well (maybe the new extender could help this). VS will become commonplace too, and HS will become nonexistent. Flippers and Hammers could be saved from this, but I dunno because they are hard to build well, especially hammers.

Also why the

are we trying to find loopholes? Click's trying to make the closest thing we have to a robot combat sim, and I want to enjoy it like it was meant to be played, not lose in tourneys because some guy found some loophole and is owning everyone with a popup. If we're going to make a good game, it should be as close to the real thing as possible. You guys will still have Space Arena and Backlash to make awesome and truly impossible designs.

Just my ten cents.

JoeBlo · « **Reply #889 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:46:47 PM »

Quote from: Scorpion on February 04, 2011, 10:51:58 AM

Nope, I think 123's right, by the sounds of things spinners in particular will suffer more than popups,

why not cover you lust for spinner carnage with Backlash (when its released?)

[/shameless plug]

Its true though.. Backlash is moving off from DSL's direction now.. rather then take it on head to head over realism im taking it to more of "extreme" being the focus... still not overlap or stacking stuff but it lacks things like normals, etc..

Enigm@ · « **Reply #890 on:** February 04, 2011, 08:49:15 PM »

Your shameless plug has made me want to play Backlash First Blood.

powerrave · « **Reply #891 on:** February 05, 2011, 07:34:14 AM »

what is this about Spinners all of a sudden? sure it won't be as easy to build a good one as it is now, but i am very sure that we will still be able to come up something to make decent spinner.

cephalopod · « **Reply #892 on:** February 05, 2011, 08:11:43 AM »

...Sledgehammers won't have normals will they? o.o

123savethewhales · « **Reply #893 on:** February 05, 2011, 11:29:32 PM »

Rams will continue to have problems due to positioning issues. FS and Drums will be even more useless as they heavily rely on no normals. HS will get a lot worst. Flail SnS will not exist if all damage is concussion. VS, despite getting weaker, will win more because it's bad match-ups got nerfed hard.

Popups easily get the biggest buff because

1. No flail SnS to sweep them
2. No indestructible half sheet
3. Much harder to de-weapon with return damage
4. Affected least by normal

Vertigo · « **Reply #894 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:08:30 AM »

So that means flippers are the only bots not affected :D

BULLDOZER FTW!!!!

Badnik96 · « **Reply #895 on:** February 06, 2011, 12:13:50 PM »

DID ANYONE READ MY LAST POST ABOUT FRICKIN LOOPHOLES?!

Urjak · « **Reply #896 on:** February 06, 2011, 12:49:44 PM »

Quote from: Badnik96 on February 06, 2011, 12:13:50 PM

DID ANYONE READ MY LAST POST ABOUT FRICKIN LOOPHOLES?!

These aren't loopholes, they are issues with the proposed system that could have far reaching consequences.

123savethewhales · « **Reply #897 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:41:40 PM »

Quote from: Badnik96 on February 06, 2011, 12:13:50 PM

DID ANYONE READ MY LAST POST ABOUT FRICKIN LOOPHOLES?!

If you want to know, I read it and I disagree.

A lot of the problems can be fixed in the mod itself. DSL3 should not require hundreds of unwritten rules just to scale it to someone's favor. Aside from a few simple in house rules (DSL realism, controlled movement), just let people play with whatever is left. If a modder does not like the way his mod is being played, then make an update patch.

Scorpion · « **Reply #898 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:51:50 PM »

The thing I worry about, is because of backlash (which I still worship btw JB, donn't read this wrongly) people may start seeing that as the way to go for spinners, as such, it wouldn't surprise me if dsl 3 becomes more wedge based, with the strongest bot types being stuff like popups.
It could cause somewhat of a schizm.

Clickbeetle · « **Reply #899 on:** March 05, 2011, 10:27:27 PM »

Holy crap a new DSL3 preview?

Yep, I'm knee-deep in the rebalancing right now, and this is the way I'm going with it:

Move over 70kg hammer, there's a new biggest weapon in town.

Now the first thing you probably notice about the rebalanced DSL bar is that ridiculous 1,019 DP. What the

, you say? Is Click on crack? No; if you think about it, 1019 DP is really about the same as stacking 4 250 DP weapons and having them all hit at the same time. That's part of what I'm doing in the rebalancing: making the big heavy weapons competitive again. And I'm doing that by increasing DP with mass.

In the old system, DP was constant across all mass and just HP increased. Not anymore. Now DP increases with mass (with slight fluctuations) and HP still increases, but much more slowly. Notice that 160kg bar has less than 10,000 HP.

The second thing you probably notice is that it's a lot heavier than the old 40x200 DSL bar. This is just a realism issue. I've been messing with the weights in order to make more components a more accurate weight for their size. I mean look at the 40x200 DSL bar... it's like the size of five or six 70 kg hammers but lighter than just one. So I made it a bit heavier (although I can't actually scale the weight proportional to the size because it would just be unusably heavy). All the other DSL bars are heavier (and more powerful) as well.

Another example is the battle axe. I mean come on... 20kg for that? The new battle axe will be 52 kgs and much more competitive.

And the third thing you probably notice about the new DSL bar is that ridiculous 2,000 fracture. What gives? Are you sure Click isn't on crack? Well in this case I'm not totally sure either... it's untested and it may be changed. What it is, is an attempt to give single heavy weapons an advantage over lots of small ones. Small weapons are good because damage spillover makes it hard to break all of them, and even with the rebalanced DP, you can still do more damage by stacking several small teeth than with one big weapon of equal weight. So all weapons over 20 kgs get fracture equal to 20xmass, to a max of 2000. This makes heavy weapons hard to break in their own way.

Why the focus on heavy weapons? Well DSL has always been about realism, and using one big weapon is more realistic than spamming dozens of razors. Hopefully these changes will allow for more realistic designs that are still competitive.