The DSL 2.2 preview and news thread

[playzooki]

Alright, question time. I know you said you wanted to run BBEANS7 in DSL3, but DSL3 seems to be mainly centred around IRL building. If you were to run BBEANS7, would it be in DSL-S or IRL format?

DSL3 BBEANS will use the standard realistic rule, but no extra IRL rules.  My goal with DSL3 is not so much to center around IRL building, but to bring standard building closer to IRL, and IRL closer to standard (in that IRL bots will be more competitive in standard play).

DSL-standard does not need to be absorbed by IRL.

nah, hes just buffing irl. seems okay to me, bbeans would suck as irl

[HurricaneAndrew]

bbeans would suck as irl

Agreed.

[Kossokei]

My goal with DSL3 is not so much to center around IRL building, but to bring standard building closer to IRL, and IRL closer to standard (in that IRL bots will be more competitive in standard play).

Can the IRL part of the building community take this goal and appreciate it for a second?

I personally quite like that idea.

[RedAce]

I'm liking the remade hinges, If there was be a version that functions like the axles, I will love them forever. Nice job Click, as always.

I wouldn't mind IRL to be competitive like DSL-S, or BBEANS7 to be IRL, yet that's just me.

[Elementos]

^Agreed. I think a lot of DSL 3 tournaments in the future will be IRL based, and to be fair, I would enjoy a more competitive IRL game.

[Mystic2000]

wow for sure there has been a lot of stuuf done there

Backdrops and wedged armor plates are great

as for your goal of making so IRL bots have a slight chance against DSL-S, that idea is not too bad

as for bbeans 7, DSL-S would keep the same style than the other bbeans

[Clickbeetle]

Known glitches I can't do anything about:

- Axle on piston bursts is sideways before attaching.

I lied.  I did something about it.



I noticed that all the working burst motors rotate on the Z axis*, but the new piston bursts rotate on the Y axis.  So I rotated the burst motor body to align the axle on the Z axis instead, and lo and behold, the axle is no longer rotated weirdly before attaching.  It seems like a simple solution, until you realize that simply editing the TM Rows doesn't work; you need to rotate the actual mesh, and these pistons have 252 mesh faces.  Fortunately, I found a couple of Excel shortcuts that somewhat expedited the process.

This isn't just an aesthetic change.  The wonky axle on the old pistons would collide with things, making it impossible to attach it in a narrow space, even though it would fit once it was placed.  This fix should make building with the piston bursts much simpler.

* "What about the JX Burst?" you ask.  Well, look closely.  Before you attach it, there is a black loop that goes around the middle, but it disappears after attaching.  This is part of the axle that becomes hidden once the axle rotates sideways.  I will probably fix this at some point too, though it's not as much of a priority as the JX Burst still functions the same.

[Thyrus]

so basicly the standart ap is the one on the side now?

[MassimoV]

Very nice work man.

[Clickbeetle]

Boring imageless update:

I finished redoing the weapon balance.  It may not be perfect yet, but testing indicates that it is better than the weapon balance in DSL3 beta 1.  Hard to be much worse than that, really.  In a nutshell:

- Removed normals from a lot of weapons.  Most weapons that did not have normals in DSL2 do not have them now.

- Those weapons that do still have normals have increased DP to compensate.  Weapons that only damage in one plane get a x2 boost, and weapons that damage in two planes get a x1.5 boost.  (This disregards double-sided weapons as they still only damage in one plane, so for example, the double sided ice pick and battle axe get a x2 boost; things like spike strips and saw blades get the 1.5 boost.)  Testing indicates that these weapons have what it takes to be useful.  (We may be seeing more battle axes in DSL3 beta 2...)

- HP and DP are now calculated independently of each other.  What this means is that weapon efficiency now increases with mass, so not everything is set to 60,000 efficiency anymore.  Heavy weapons are generally more efficient than light weapons.  Practical example:  Razor tips now have about 49,000 efficiency, and 70kg hammers have about 87,000.

- Nerfed fracture on all weapons.  Only big bulky stuff like hammers and DSL bars have fracture now, and it is never over 500.

- Nerfed frequency on saw blades (was 5, now is 1).

- DSL bars are 37.5% lighter, but still heavier than they were in DSL2.  (The 40x200 bar is 100kg now; was 160.)

Now that that's out of the way, I'll work on something fun and exciting next!  I know you all want more weapon choices, and I have some ideas...

[Thyrus]

Will there be an beta update at anytime or will the next release be the full version?

also YAY for new weapons :3

[Elementos]

MOAR WEAPONS >:D

[El Chickenado]

i like new weapons also remember this (pg 48.)

Lol July 2012 maybe?

it was a strange time

[Naryar]

- Those weapons that do still have normals have increased DP to compensate.  Weapons that only damage in one plane get a x2 boost, and weapons that damage in two planes get a x1.5 boost.  (This disregards double-sided weapons as they still only damage in one plane, so for example, the double sided ice pick and battle axe get a x2 boost; things like spike strips and saw blades get the 1.5 boost.)  Testing indicates that these weapons have what it takes to be useful.  (We may be seeing more battle axes in DSL3 beta 2...)

- HP and DP are now calculated independently of each other.  What this means is that weapon efficiency now increases with mass, so not everything is set to 60,000 efficiency anymore.  Heavy weapons are generally more efficient than light weapons.  Practical example:  Razor tips now have about 49,000 efficiency, and 70kg hammers have about 87,000.

reminds me of what I have done with NAR AI. Well, if it works for you it's fine.

But good news.

Apart from that with 49000 efficiency I'm afraid razor tips will be badly nerfed, though if they still have their 2.1 piercing they'll still be usable.

Though to be honest razor tips are just spammed everywhere and while they are cool weapons it's nice to see something else.

[Clickbeetle]

reminds me of what I have done with NAR AI. Well, if it works for you it's fine.

Yeah, I looked at your rebalancing for NAR AI and used some of the same ideas.  The main thing I did differently is how I counted the number of normals.  And also make efficiency increase with mass.

Will there be an beta update at anytime or will the next release be the full version?

I'm thinking the next release will be Beta 2 (hopefully soon), and the next one after that will be the full version.  Unless there are more major issues with Beta 2 and I need to get a patch out sooner.

Meanwhile, here's a new weapon I've been working on.  This is something I feel DSL has needed for a long time.  It's not particularly flashy, but it fills a huge void in the weapon options.  Namely, that we don't have any heavy spikes.



Previously, if you wanted to use a heavy weapon, you were basically limited to hammers.  Which is not always the most realistic.  Now, you can use hammers or spikes!

Heavy spikes come in 40cm, 60cm, 80cm, 100cm, and 120cm lengths.  The 120cm one is 50kg and has 1,000 DP (currently the most powerful weapon).  That's a lot, but the normal makes it hard to use.

The heavy spike is also an important balance component.  Hammers are a high-durability, low-damage, no-normals weapon.  Spikes are a low-durability, high-damage weapon with one normal direction.  (Hence the 1,000 DP.  It's actually 500, but doubled to compensate for the normal.)

They're great for rammers and hammers.



For reference, the rammer does around 1500-2000 damage a pop if you hit straight on at full speed (not easy to do against a moving opponent--this is kind of a high-risk, high-reward weapon).  A slower hit, or one that is too angled, is more like 800.  The hammer does around 1000 on a good hit.

[Elementos]

Yay, I can now make a decent Thor Replica!

[Kossokei]

reminds me of what I have done with NAR AI. Well, if it works for you it's fine.

Yeah, I looked at your rebalancing for NAR AI and used some of the same ideas.  The main thing I did differently is how I counted the number of normals.  And also make efficiency increase with mass.

Will there be an beta update at anytime or will the next release be the full version?

I'm thinking the next release will be Beta 2 (hopefully soon), and the next one after that will be the full version.  Unless there are more major issues with Beta 2 and I need to get a patch out sooner.

Meanwhile, here's a new weapon I've been working on.  This is something I feel DSL has needed for a long time.  It's not particularly flashy, but it fills a huge void in the weapon options.  Namely, that we don't have any heavy spikes.

(Image removed from quote.)

Previously, if you wanted to use a heavy weapon, you were basically limited to hammers.  Which is not always the most realistic.  Now, you can use hammers or spikes!

Heavy spikes come in 40cm, 60cm, 80cm, 100cm, and 120cm lengths.  The 120cm one is 50kg and has 1,000 DP (currently the most powerful weapon).  That's a lot, but the normal makes it hard to use.

The heavy spike is also an important balance component.  Hammers are a high-durability, low-damage, no-normals weapon.  Spikes are a low-durability, high-damage weapon with one normal direction.  (Hence the 1,000 DP.  It's actually 500, but doubled to compensate for the normal.)

They're great for rammers and hammers.

(Image removed from quote.)

For reference, the rammer does around 1500-2000 damage a pop if you hit straight on at full speed (not easy to do against a moving opponent--this is kind of a high-risk, high-reward weapon).  A slower hit, or one that is too angled, is more like 800.  The hammer does around 1000 on a good hit.

oh that reply number is fitting for you.

Would it be possible to add another connection point on the opposite side of the spike so that you could attach weapons to the sides of it, like how you can do on the 75kg hammers?

[El Chickenado]

reminds me of what I have done with NAR AI. Well, if it works for you it's fine.

Yeah, I looked at your rebalancing for NAR AI and used some of the same ideas.  The main thing I did differently is how I counted the number of normals.  And also make efficiency increase with mass.

Will there be an beta update at anytime or will the next release be the full version?

I'm thinking the next release will be Beta 2 (hopefully soon), and the next one after that will be the full version.  Unless there are more major issues with Beta 2 and I need to get a patch out sooner.

Meanwhile, here's a new weapon I've been working on.  This is something I feel DSL has needed for a long time.  It's not particularly flashy, but it fills a huge void in the weapon options.  Namely, that we don't have any heavy spikes.

(Image removed from quote.)

Previously, if you wanted to use a heavy weapon, you were basically limited to hammers.  Which is not always the most realistic.  Now, you can use hammers or spikes!

Heavy spikes come in 40cm, 60cm, 80cm, 100cm, and 120cm lengths.  The 120cm one is 50kg and has 1,000 DP (currently the most powerful weapon).  That's a lot, but the normal makes it hard to use.

The heavy spike is also an important balance component.  Hammers are a high-durability, low-damage, no-normals weapon.  Spikes are a low-durability, high-damage weapon with one normal direction.  (Hence the 1,000 DP.  It's actually 500, but doubled to compensate for the normal.)

They're great for rammers and hammers.

(Image removed from quote.)

For reference, the rammer does around 1500-2000 damage a pop if you hit straight on at full speed (not easy to do against a moving opponent--this is kind of a high-risk, high-reward weapon).  A slower hit, or one that is too angled, is more like 800.  The hammer does around 1000 on a good hit.

/
*at this point the reader had a heart attack and died
this means static spike tornado is possible...
*hugs clickbeetle in the most awkward way

[Clickbeetle]

Would it be possible to add another connection point on the opposite side of the spike so that you could attach weapons to the sides of it, like how you can do on the 75kg hammers?

You know, that might not be a bad idea.

Another reason I made this weapon is so I can eventually upgrade Vladiator to a SHW.  The old Vlad spike won't scale well to that size, so I was going to use a heavy spike, and I would need to attach little teeth to the sides then anyway.

[Absolarix]

Is there download for this somewhere?