gametechmods

Robot Arena => Modifications => Topic started by: Scorpion on October 13, 2010, 11:10:41 AM

Title: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Scorpion on October 13, 2010, 11:10:41 AM
Has anyone ever made one of these?
If so, do they then just turn into normal motors due to the speed?

Basically, i want to know if you can mod a servo so it can act as a proper lifter or crusher (like panic attacks lifting spikes or razers crusher, fully controllable but strong enough to be effective).
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: NFX on October 13, 2010, 11:38:38 AM
Speed has nothing to do with the strength, it's the torque you want to be worried about, I think. Some of the servos in NAR AI have upwards of 5000 torques, compared to 40 for a half-decent drive motor.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Scorpion on October 13, 2010, 11:48:04 AM
Speed has nothing to do with the strength, it's the torque you want to be worried about, I think. Some of the servos in NAR AI have upwards of 5000 torques, compared to 40 for a half-decent drive motor.
Really?
CAn they opperate well as lifters then?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: NFX on October 13, 2010, 12:18:02 PM
Speed has nothing to do with the strength, it's the torque you want to be worried about, I think. Some of the servos in NAR AI have upwards of 5000 torques, compared to 40 for a half-decent drive motor.
Really?
CAn they opperate well as lifters then?
I think so, but Bursts are better for flipping.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: SteveM4 on October 13, 2010, 12:27:06 PM
I think he wants lifters...

So do I, I wanted to make a Havok bot have a lifter.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Scorpion on October 13, 2010, 12:29:24 PM
I think he wants lifters...

So do I, I wanted to make a Havok bot have a lifter.
Exactly!
I'll download nar AI in a bit and see what they're like, although if they do work as lifters, I have to change panic attacks weapon motor in dsl.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Clickbeetle on October 13, 2010, 09:27:59 PM
Servos can't lift bots no matter how powerful they are.  Only burst motors can do that.  The torque on a servo only applies to how much weight attached to your own bot it can lift.  Also, for some reason motors are harder to lift than static components.


Of course, you CAN use tons of counterweight, but that's basically just using gravity to lift bots, not the servo.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Scrap Daddy on October 13, 2010, 09:38:22 PM
Couldn't one make a really heavy and invisible counterweight to make replicas work like real ones?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Clickbeetle on October 13, 2010, 09:47:38 PM
In theory yes... BUT:


-the closer the counterweight is to the axle, the heavier it needs to be.
-most lifters have little room between the axle and the floor.
-with very heavy counterweight (and it needs to be VERY heavy), the bot would become overweight, which would require more powerful drive, which would give it an unfair pushing power advantage, and make it harder to flip with a same-weight-class bot.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 14, 2010, 05:50:30 AM
Servos can't lift bots no matter how powerful they are.  Only burst motors can do that.  The torque on a servo only applies to how much weight attached to your own bot it can lift.  Also, for some reason motors are harder to lift than static components.


Of course, you CAN use tons of counterweight, but that's basically just using gravity to lift bots, not the servo.

What about making servos "base=SpinMotor" with high torque and low maxspeed like the geared Beta ?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: NFX on October 14, 2010, 05:53:11 AM
There'd need to be some way of stopping it from uselessly flopping back down again when it's not being powered.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 14, 2010, 05:56:47 AM
There'd need to be some way of stopping it from uselessly flopping back down again when it's not being powered.

Special .py ?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: NFX on October 14, 2010, 06:01:37 AM
You mean a .py that would feather the button to try and keep it at a certain level?

Or, you could tweak a normal hammer motor (Geared Beta seems capable of lifting robots, Argonaut managed fine with 3 for 5000kg) and give it a smaller radius, like a 45 and 90 degree versions. I imagine they'd be able to lift bots relatively easily. You'd have to keep the button held in to hold the motor in the "up" position, but I imagine it'd be fairly simple.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 14, 2010, 06:06:50 AM
You mean a .py that would feather the button to try and keep it at a certain level?

A .py using an analog and different throttle values.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 14, 2010, 07:45:47 AM
just have a locking axle (like servos) with a restricted Arc as a super powerful spin motor.. presto a flipper or lifter that stays open
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 14, 2010, 08:16:14 AM
just have a locking axle (like servos) with a restricted Arc as a super powerful spin motor.. presto a flipper or lifter that stays open

Beta geared.

But slower. I'll make some of these for my upcoming mod.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 14, 2010, 08:37:57 AM
but do it with a locking axle to hold its position  ;)
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 14, 2010, 08:55:22 AM
A locking axle ? What do you mean ? Like a locked tread motor or a restricted 90/180 degree motor ?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 14, 2010, 09:05:51 AM
like the locking tread motor or a servo.. its simply a small tweak in the GMF to the axle movement object to take the free movement out of it.

if you want any further info just hit me via pm, I wouldnt mind working on a few projects with you  :gawe:
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 14, 2010, 10:03:01 AM
like the locking tread motor or a servo.. its simply a small tweak in the GMF to the axle movement object to take the free movement out of it.

OK, I'll try.

I wouldnt mind working on a few projects with you  :gawe:

I don't have and take much time towards RA2 atm, but i could. Especially that I will be on vacation one week in the end of october.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 14, 2010, 10:10:40 AM
neither do I but if you ever feel like it.. you have some pretty cool concepts
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Trovaner on October 14, 2010, 11:35:18 AM
like the locking tread motor or a servo.. its simply a small tweak in the GMF to the axle movement object to take the free movement out of it.
Locking tread motor's work by stopping actual movement (which isn't calculated in RA2's mobility formula) so I'm not sure what you mean. All that I know about them can be found here (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,4287.0.html).

Servos don't move much unless a control is telling them to move but they are also lacking the ability to efficiently lifting other bots. Spin motors have the power to lift bots but lack the ability to hold still when not being regulated by a control. Therefore, I'm not sure what you could be talking about.


In the GMF's hinge constraints there is a setting for friction that might be worth investigating. Every time that I have set it high, its been for Arenas (where I'm manually telling it how powerful/fast to move). I would be interested in hearing what others know about it. Assuming that it is capable of stopping an axle from turning, we could compensate the speed and torque so that it would move when fired and not by external forces.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 14, 2010, 11:42:54 AM
exactly what you posted.. taking away the free movement of the axle

the servos are exactly the same, if you change a servo from Servo Motor to Spin Motor the axle still acts the same, the base doesn't appear to effect this.

the idea to to maintain the lifting arm open and manually retract
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 15, 2010, 02:52:46 AM
So taking away the free movement takes away the power of lifting other bots ?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 15, 2010, 03:18:15 AM
the idea I have it you lift up a robot and can hold it there without holding the button down non stop
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 15, 2010, 05:19:49 AM
the idea I have it you lift up a robot and can hold it there without holding the button down non stop

Maybe a switch control ?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 15, 2010, 06:32:09 AM
that could work.. I was thinking analog with a locking axle like a servo
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: NFX on October 15, 2010, 06:38:54 AM
I thought servos didn't work properly if you wired them to a switch.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 15, 2010, 06:41:56 AM
I thought servos didn't work properly if you wired them to a switch.

We are talking about spin motors working like servos.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 15, 2010, 06:50:00 AM
lol there is so much confusion in this thread and its just because people arnt back reading :P
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 15, 2010, 06:53:01 AM
lol there is so much confusion in this thread

Yes. Shame, it's a great thread.

I will make tests of "servo-ed" spin motors.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: JoeBlo on October 15, 2010, 06:55:50 AM
I did it before for fun making ultra fast spinning weapons that could stop straight away to avoid mauler dancing or being of balance, etc
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Naryar on October 15, 2010, 06:56:59 AM
I did this with the new rage motor. I made it a servo for sound purposes. I think it's also in the latest NAR AI component release.

but what would be more interesting ultra slow, SUPER TORQUEY spin motors.
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: Scorpion on October 15, 2010, 10:38:11 AM
lol there is so much confusion in this thread and its just because people arnt back reading :P
It is rather confusing, but I think I understand what you and Naryar are talking about.

Can the spin motors be edited to not just work like servos in the way you were talking about before but to be slower aswell while doing so?
Title: Re: Really powerfull servos
Post by: 123savethewhales on October 15, 2010, 02:23:48 PM
I did it before for fun making ultra fast spinning weapons that could stop straight away to avoid mauler dancing or being of balance, etc

I used a Spin Motor Like Servo to reduce loading time for my Super Massive Black Hole.  Servo seem to load faster than Spin motor since their position doesn't change during loading.

The "Crusher" weapon can probably be simulated by combining

1.  A servo with lots of torque and slow max speed
2.  A modded weapon with high DP and Frequency