Poll

Do you want these AI renamed or not ?

Yes
6 (46.2%)
No
2 (15.4%)
Don't care
5 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE  (Read 1617 times)

Offline Naryar

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"FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« on: June 08, 2010, 03:20:22 AM »
I've grown quite enough of the confusion between FBS and SnS in AI names, and i'm not the only one. Now that there are wiki pages for FBS.py and for the FBS robot type, i don't want to face a newbie pointing out truthfully "but they're not the same thing ?"

I suggest we rename FBS.py (and the three ripoffs i did) to MeltyBrain.py (or MBSnS.py, or something) because it's what it does, FBS_1 to SnS_1 and FBS_2 to SnS_2 (because it's what it does)

I will release the renamed AIs here if you guys accept.

What are your opinion ?

Offline JoeBlo

Re: FBS NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 03:23:20 AM »
FBS.py is fine

its the FBS_1, FBS_2, FBS_Central, etc that are the confusing ones...

it would be Madiaba's call ultimately but those should be renamed to SnS_1, SnS_2, etc

Offline Naryar

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Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 03:27:08 AM »
True, but if one of the better AI writers (not me) ever finds a way to AI correctly a FBS, what would we call it then ?

Offline JoeBlo

Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 03:30:29 AM »
actually I think you would AI a "static drive FBS" the same as a "MeltyBrain FBS" since the way the AI calculates movement...

Offline Clickbeetle

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Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 05:36:03 PM »
I'm all for renaming them, but the problem is that they're already in wide circulation.  People are going to end up with 2 copies of the same thing with different names.  Which isn't so bad I suppose... but if you didn't know they were the same, it could get even more confusing.  And then some people would still have the old versions and send AI'd bots using it...


But it would cause no compatibility issues that I can think of so it's worth a try.


BTW, FBS_2 is actually my creation, though it uses some bits of code from Madiaba, and I made some updates to it for BBEANS6  (just to add even more to the confusion  :gawe: )

To lack feeling is to be dead, but to act on every feeling is to be a child.
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings

Offline Madiaba

Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 11:34:27 PM »
@CB: I'm sort of glad that you posted your input, CB, about this cause I'd read the thread when Nar first posted it, but didn't respond do to being left in a flux to decide between the pros and cons of it.
Though it would cause confusion about the older versions, I suppose renaming them might clarify things from this point forward.  I do think that the old ones should be left in circulation for existing AI apps, of course.  Our AI chart, that Phil linked, should probably be updated to include any renamings.
 
FYI: FBS_1 was the result of frustration from FBS bots getting counted out because of the 'generic' coding in their AI.pys.   After a couple hours of work figuring out how the "ImmobilityWarning" coding worked, I thought I would write a simple FBS.py with a bullet-proof (100%) Immobility handler.  While I was playing I added some other basic features like adjustable "initial charge/ram engagement". As he mentioned CB took some features and improved it, IMHO (FBS_2).
 
Also: Last time CB and I talked about this, we did not have a distinction between FBS and SNS.  Have you guys made one?  If so what are the criteria of each?
 
 
 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 12:12:20 AM by Madiaba »
Input is appreciated. :)
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Offline Clickbeetle

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Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2010, 11:50:20 PM »

Also
: Last time CB and I talked about this, we did not have a distinction between FBS and SNS.  Have you guys made one?  If so what are the criteria of each?


I think everyone pretty much has their own opinion about it.


In my opinion, FBS and SnS are basically synonymous, although perhaps FBS is a bit more broad as it could include melty brain bots (which couldn't be accurately called Sit-n-Spinners as they don't sit still).

To lack feeling is to be dead, but to act on every feeling is to be a child.
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Offline JoeBlo

Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 03:02:20 AM »
I think its a never ending issue

some people are heck bent on "Melty Brain" being a bot type, only it isnt an official Robot Class. Its Transitional Dift FBS... I wrote that on the wiki page for this AI but then Naryar changed it to SnS which brings us to this point you just made

couldn't be accurately called Sit-n-Spinners as they don't sit still

SnS is sit and spin which is what FBS_1 and FBS_2 achieve which was the reasoning for my thoughts on them changing

Bottom line is.. the reason we have so much confusion with this bot type is that people combine the two.. real life robot types and made up ones for RA2. SnS at some point became a known bot type in RA2 but in real life there is no such thing.. no robot with a spin button to spin it around and a forward button to move when counted out, SnS is a strategy IRL that other robots use (such as 13 Black used an SnS tactic against razer yet its a HS)

but now we get to the point of do we ditch the SnS class ?

the way of difference can be quite simple imo.. just some seem to attempt to make it as complex as possible

SnS = Spins the whole robot around, sits in one place

FBS = Spins the whole robot around, has some form of movement while doing so. this usually is

  • Transitional Drifting (Nicknamed Melty Brain after the robot that used this technique)
  • Floating Drive (drive motors that stay in place using axles or attached to a motor, etc)
  • NaviBot (not possible in RA2 but is similar to Transitional Drifting, Whyachi made this drive that quickly adjusts the angles of the drive motors back and forth to move around)

Offline Madiaba

Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2010, 08:30:49 AM »
So, Joe/Nar, in order to be on the same page (congruent paradigm), please list all spinning AI.py type options, and their distictive traits, as you are suggesting they be officially designated...
Input is appreciated. :)
-Arrogance is a quantity devoid of quality...
-As a client once told me "This is my story, and it's sticking to me!"
-Relationships these days are like the 'Arrival' section of the airport: a lot of baggage is being revealed in one place, and not a lot of it is being correlated to its real owners...

Offline JoeBlo

Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2010, 08:37:40 AM »
well I think myself and Nar have the same idea (renaming some pythons) but not necessary the same name idea's

my proposal is just...

FBS_1 becomes SnS_1

FBS_2 becomes SnS_2

so they can no longer be confused with Apanx' FBS.py

Offline Naryar

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Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 02:57:44 AM »
I am fine with that.

Offline JoeBlo

Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 03:04:12 AM »
I think transferring the names over will be easy (if we do it)

most people get the .py's out of AI packs IMO

so all that would need to be done is have

NarAI switch the renames over for next release
CCAI switch the renames over for next release
BBEANS AI use the renames for DSL release
IIAI, Restocked, 090901's AI, Gazea's AI use the renamed versions too

along with the AI chart

Offline Clickbeetle

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Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2010, 11:26:19 PM »
BBEANS AI use the renames for DSL release


All right, I will do this.

To lack feeling is to be dead, but to act on every feeling is to be a child.
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings

Offline Madiaba

Re: "FBS" AI PY FILE NAMING ISSUE
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 11:32:38 PM »
Ok.
I'll edit the chart....
Input is appreciated. :)
-Arrogance is a quantity devoid of quality...
-As a client once told me "This is my story, and it's sticking to me!"
-Relationships these days are like the 'Arrival' section of the airport: a lot of baggage is being revealed in one place, and not a lot of it is being correlated to its real owners...