Author Topic: Devastator's Showcase (Read 17936 times)

Naryar · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2013, 07:38:16 AM »

what the hell is up with that weapon placement in that UHW

also good to see you building again, you defend yourself well for a newbie. We need more fresh blood in there.

rnifnuf · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2013, 03:13:23 PM »

Quote from: TBD Devastator on October 30, 2013, 12:59:50 AM

(Image removed from quote.)

Here's the internal picture. Yes, I know Copals are the crappiest of the crappy motors, but it's the only thing that would fit in the bot and shell spinners usually don't need super fast drives anyway.

Copals are fine for BW and AW. But use the small ant wheels (the green ones that weigh 7kg), make your chassis the minimum height and move the piglet high enough in the chassis so that the axle is poking out of the top. That way, you wouldn't need to use an extender to support the shell. Also, move the Copals one click up inside the chassis to reduce ground clearance with the small ants.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that there are five ant batteries in the chassis. This bot only needs three. In fact, three ants is enough to support most spinners although most builders use 4-6 on heavier bots so that their batteries don't die within 2 minutes. Basically, only use more batteries if you're making a HW/SHW and have a few leftover kgs (<20) and really don't know what to use it on.

Also, make inside pics of all of your bots. That way, we can give you advice on what components to use on the inside of your bot.

Davidyamy · « **Reply #22 on:** October 30, 2013, 09:16:19 PM »

tigercat is very good!, I am a fan of this robot, could change the extensions fixed by, "metal" or hinge "skirt" ... it would be lovely

TBD Devastator · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2013, 12:36:51 AM »

This resulted from a hilariously terrible attempt to build a HS. Fortunately, it worked pretty well for a drumbot conversion. (Also, I heard Snapper II-attached wedges are good wedges, did I get mistaken?)

Also, Nifnuf, can you elaborate on what you mean by moving the Copals "up" in the bot? I have not a clue what you're meaning by that, since you're not recommending extender work. I did do some chassis work though, shaved about 16KG off of the bot due to the shorter profile.

(current progress)

Directed at David, I didn't get your statement entirely (my bad). Do you mean placing the steel skirts onto metal hinges instead of the extenders they are on currently? As of right now, they're the only items keeping the spinner off the ground, so it may be a bit difficult to engineer a solution to that with the chassis space remaining.

rnifnuf · « **Reply #24 on:** October 31, 2013, 01:03:09 AM »

Quote from: Davidyamy on October 30, 2013, 09:16:19 PM

tigercat is very good!, I am a fan of this robot, could change the extensions fixed by, "metal" or hinge "skirt" ... it would be lovely

Essentially what he's saying is: "Tigercat is a good robot, although the wedge can be changed to a metal hinge or skirt hinge wedge." If this is true, then I agree with this statement. Generally, metal hinge wedges are better than skirt hinge wedges, which are better than static wedges. All of those are better than the horrific chassis wedge. Just to clarify, a wedge-shaped chassis is only a bad thing if it is exposed and/or not backed up by any other component wedge (i.e. skirt/metal hinge). Although, you should keep the supports you already have, just improve them.

Now for my input...

I think that the advice David gave was good, but I disagree with the "Tigercat is very good!" part. I have seen worse VS before (Playzooki's LOL FAIL series), but there are many better ones, like Mako, the bot you were trying to remake. For 30kg more, you could replace the 12 maces on T-connectors with 30kg sledgehammers which are infinitely better weapons. Also, add another Perm (that better be a Perm-132) like you already have. Ideally the weapon setup is: two different Perm-132 motors each with a tribar with 3 30kg sledgehammers.

Now lets talk drive... what kind of NPC-T64 motors are those (Fast or regular)? If they are regular, change them to fast ones. And while Tazbot wheels look cool, they have fail stats. Either use Vladiator wheels (higher grip with weight saved) or Shiny Hubs (for even more weight saved).

What do you do to afford all of this heavy crap? The answer is simple: lower the armor. Mako used Plastic 1 for its armor because its weapon would reach the opponent's chassis before the opponent's weapon reached Mako's chassis, so it could get away with using Plastic 1 armor. That doesn't mean that Tigercat can get away with the same thing especially in a Popup and Horizontal Spinner-dominated metagame, though.

And once again, inside shot please. I personally don't care as much about the skin as I do the insides, and really, skinning should be the last thing you do when making a bot IMO.

The Shell Spinner... by moving the copals up, I mean hold Ctrl and move the mouse so that the copals move up and down inside of the chassis. No matter exactly how you move the mouse, the height adjustments are always in small intervals often referred to as "clicks". Move the copals up exactly one of these intervals. Do something similar for the piglets except you move it high enough in the chassis that the axle is sticking out of the chassis about halfway. This will allow you to save weight by eliminating unnecessary extender work.

Lastly, the drum... those aren't Snapper II's. Snapper II's are large blue burst motors that weigh 13kgs... that are stock-only components. Don't use burst wedges in DSL. Replace the big tall battery with a single ant.

TBD Devastator · « **Reply #25 on:** October 31, 2013, 02:19:26 AM »

Looked at the post of yours and followed the advice best I could, and came up with this. The skirt hinge wedge actually holds the bot up pretty well, so I removed the old supports entirely. Still not entirely sure if I'm using the correct amount of batteries (what I'm doing is looking at the amp requirements and getting up as close to it as possible without going too far over.)

Some alterations were made to the drum bot as well, including removing the Mag Snapper wedges (not Snapper IIs, sorry) and replacing them with skirt hinge wedges, as well as adding some extra armor. The large battery is still attached, mostly to act as a counterweight for the Perm 80.

I have the feeling I'm working at too fast of a pace.

Lemonism · « **Reply #26 on:** October 31, 2013, 04:37:01 AM »

I'm not exactly an expert, but here goes...
Tigercat is technically not a legal robot as the weapons intersect the motor, breaking the 'realistic rule' of DSL S. Just use the other AP of the perms, and you will probably have to change the chassis a bit I'm afraid.
Also for both robots I believe only the middle attachment point of skirt hinges actully acts as a wedge , so you don't need to use the side attachments, saving some weight.
For the drum you should use the small multiextenders instead of baseplate mounts to save space and weight, which might even let you make your chassis a bit smaller.
If you haven't already seen them Naryar did some excellent tutorials for DSL S.
Leaving this until last as I'm not sure, but I think each spin motor only needs one ant battery to power it, and since I don't think that batteries affect weight distribution in combat I don't think you need that black battery in there at all... but I would ask a more experienced user before removing it :P

helloface · « **Reply #27 on:** October 31, 2013, 09:36:38 AM »

The rule is AT LEAST 1 ant per spin motor. In your case, 6 ants would be good for both bots, since that would be a great setup for a bot with 4 spin motors (the Mako remake) and since Tigercat has a lot of spare weight. Other than that, Rif and Lemon said it all.

Badnik96 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 31, 2013, 10:39:37 AM »

I'd swap out the shiny hubs on both bots for Vlad wheels, as they're grippier and you have the weight for them.

Mr. AS · « **Reply #29 on:** October 31, 2013, 01:53:12 PM »

replace "vlad wheels" with "technos" and badniks got it right. you dont need the heavy plow in the back, replace the ramplates (they suck in dsl, btw) with heavy plows, and you only need 3-5 ants.

Davidyamy · « **Reply #30 on:** November 01, 2013, 02:52:53 PM »

the Tigercat, change wheels for Tecnos and cover it (check if they come into the chassis, further inland), in weight, you must change the armor. proof aluminum skirt...

Naryar · « **Reply #31 on:** November 01, 2013, 03:42:46 PM »

Quote from: Davidyamy on November 01, 2013, 02:52:53 PM

the Tigercat, change wheels for Tecnos and cover it (check if they come into the chassis, further inland), in weight, you must change the armor. proof aluminum skirt...

No. Don't post bad advice.

Don't post barely comprehensible advice either.

TBD Devastator · « **Reply #32 on:** November 02, 2013, 08:33:32 PM »

So I was digging through my bot teams, and came across this horrifying excuse of a robot, likely from my first forays into RA2.

Was almost at the weight limit, couldn't turn, and the weapons (and drive, somehow) often ran out of oomph in the first ninety seconds or so of combat.

Naturally, I decided to do something about it so this bot could actually destroy something that wasn't an antweight (seriously, it got destroyed by a non-AI pack LW in a one-on-one, how's that for disappointing?), and the end result of about twenty minutes of "work" came up with this.

So far, it's proven to be marginally better, in the fact that it has actually scored a victory, but I'm still debating on whether to scrap the design entirely or not.

helloface · « **Reply #33 on:** November 02, 2013, 08:55:32 PM »

Smaller chassis, more weapons, tite sheets are doing nothing, you only need 3 MAX 4 ants. That's pretty much the basics, because I am worse at DSL-S than I am at IRL.

Quote from: TBD Devastator on November 02, 2013, 08:33:32 PM

I'm still debating on whether to scrap the design entirely or not.

Unless you get some really good advice, you might need to do this.

MassimoV · « **Reply #34 on:** November 02, 2013, 08:59:20 PM »

Lurk in Naryar's or 123's showcases to learn what the standards are regarding modern standard building.

Badnik96 · « **Reply #35 on:** November 02, 2013, 09:39:02 PM »

Try to find Naryar's old SHW Blade Wave, that seems to be the kind of bot you're trying to make.

Naryar · « **Reply #36 on:** November 03, 2013, 02:42:44 AM »

you need far more weapons, a simpler chassis and less complicated wedges.

TBD Devastator · « **Reply #37 on:** November 05, 2013, 01:06:50 AM »

Did some more fooling around today with similar robot styles, but the only result of anything notable was this bot. I'm not sure if it legally counts as a Cruiserweight or not, because it's exactly 600KG, but until told otherwise I'll consider it as such.

(not shown - 3mm titanium armor)

Decided I'd give the wedge pokers a little extra fire support by adding a hammer to the back, but debating on whether or not that was a good secondary weapon system or not.

rnifnuf · « **Reply #38 on:** November 05, 2013, 01:15:56 AM »

That is a cruiserweight.

But you should only use one or two (preferably one) Storm burst. Mount all of the razors on extenders on the piston.

The hammer wasn't really the best choice of weaponry IMO because poker/hammer has the same issue of HS/hammer hybrids: Poor synergy as the poker weapons knock the opponent away from the hammer. Try rammer/hammer and see how that works.

helloface · « **Reply #39 on:** November 05, 2013, 09:57:06 AM »

Are you trying to build IRL (realistic), or DSL-S (effective)??