gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: Jimxorb on September 23, 2004, 02:57:23 PM
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Like- Cool spinner options
Like- New menus and botlab
Like- Cool looking replicas
Like- Realism
Dislike- Few creaces to smoothe out
Dislike- No Z-teks or nice fast drive motor
Post what you think here.
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some AI are to easy, others are to hard(tournys). ill have more later.
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some AI are to easy, others are to hard(tournys). ill have more later.
agreed, the tourneys are way too hard, unless I'm playing as the best bot (Killdozer).
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Dislike- No Z-teks or nice fast drive motor
That is gonna be fixed!
I hope Goose intended for NCP-T64 motors to be drive motors.
I see no need to make a perm for drive, does anybody else?
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yep, the npt were made to be the new red bird
i see no need to make a per as a drive
emagine doing it in real life :smt119
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yep, the npt were made to be the new red bird
i see no need to make a per as a drive
emagine doing it in real life :smt119
Well what is the name of the motor so I can fix that too!!!
you just called it npt, the top of this pic is NCP-T64, and the dropdown says NPC-T64?
(http://home.earthlink.net/~ra2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ncp-t64.jpg)
Also this seems to be turning in to DSL fixes and some should not be seen by the public
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some AI are to easy, others are to hard(tournys). ill have more later.
agreed, the tourneys are way too hard, unless I'm playing as the best bot (Killdozer).
Glad to review specific AI if you can tell me which you think are too easy. We did adjust the weights of some bots to fit into different weightclasses as needed to fill the teams. This had the side effect of changing the bot versus what it would be fighting against.
Which AIed bots do you think are too easy?
And on that note, the in-game tourneys should be difficult but not undoable with a good bot using the DSL parts and driven well. Since we can't change (that I know of) the between round repair times our other choices are to:
* Dumb down the AI
* Weaken the Replicas
* Strengthen the connections on DSL parts
* Strengthen the damage done by DSL parts
* Other
There are downsides to each solution mentioned.
Comments?
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i personally think we should give the player weapons more HP so they stay on longer, especially the things like disc teeth.
el diablo does and killdozer both do to much damage. i mean really, killdozers a rammer. its to overpowered. i dont want to say that its way to overpowered incase you get the wrong idea but its pretty overpowered. its pretty much the only bot you cant knock the weapon off of.
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i personally think we should give the player weapons more HP so they stay on longer, especially the things like disc teeth.
el diablo does and killdozer both do to much damage. i mean really, killdozers a rammer. its to overpowered. i dont want to say that its way to overpowered incase you get the wrong idea but its pretty overpowered. its pretty much the only bot you cant knock the weapon off of.
No, I don't want to tone Killdozer down...he is just so cool to play with, it would ruin the fun...It's good to have SOME hard AI.
EDIT: but I do agree that it shouldn't have 40,000 HP...maybe 25,000 or somthing.
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25000 sounds about right compared to 40000.
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In my opinion, I think that there should be some more motors that are lighter. The lightest motor currently is the astroflight motor, but thats the only one that is light enough to make decent LW's with a weapon.
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In my opinion, I think that there should be some more motors that are lighter. The lightest motor currently is the astroflight motor, but thats the only one that is light enough to make decent LW's with a weapon.
Try using the slimbody instead, it makes a wickedly fast LW with room for
Astro weapon motors
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Heya, I'm new here, but I played with DSL mod, here's what I think..
Likes:
- More custom bots from tv shows
- More parts
- More levels
- Better mp3s music
- Better Testing Room in Workshop
- Tougher Ai & Bots
Dislikes: (seriously, don't hate me)
- Bugs... a lot of bugs!
- Lag gaps in Workshop & Repairs
- Graphic Menu (sorry, It's the lack of same theme in each menus)
- The grid on baseplate when putting parts on (too much lines)
- Watching my bot get crushed by those big hammers, heheh
- The Arena Pits (one of my bots can jump back out, but still lose by default... grr)
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Likes: Components, Arenas, Replicas, ALL!!!
Dislikes: No good powerfull motor (like the ZTEK)
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I personally feel the game was better before the 1.1 patch right now. There still needs to be some tweaks on motor power and weapons right now.
Currently with the motors set as they are, you are very hard pressed to make a half good spinner, and the bursts make pop-ups a joke.
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how can it be worse ? especially for popups since you now have the t-minus snapper, BSG , Beta burst , and two sizes of the Jx Burst ? the oriningal game had two motors.. and the t-minus is pretty much the same as the original.
for other motors the same applys you have many new choices and although you pay in weight there are some more powerfull that the HP ztek.
the DSL was made to not be like the original and it takes some getting used to the new parts and new weights.. you will notice for the most part things weigh more. that is not by accident .. that's to stop the bots with 5 spinner weapons which in real life is totally unrealistic.
Someone also mentioned the bot grid being too small.. people that need there parts put on the bot really percise will understand why.. it allows you to place parts with more percision.
Post's like this are good for us so keep posting your thoughts it will only help us improve.Don't be scared to tell us what you think we are all old enough to take some crap ;)
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Currently with the motors set as they are, you are very hard pressed to make a half good spinner, and the bursts make pop-ups a joke.
The motors are ALL a little more powerful than the ones they replaced.
The 132 Perms are more powerful than HP Zteks and the smaller 80 Perms are more powerful than the std Zteks.
The NPC T-64 are designed to replace the redbirds, but are as powerful as Zteks, the fast is more powerful than the HP Ztek. The little slimbody is like the redbirds, and the tiny astro is like the angle motors, so your complaint in that area is invalid.
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you just gotta love those Perm motors, it can push a car up against the wall, over the red tools-drawer. It gave my bot a ability to score total over 50,000 points damage in one match. Don't believe me? take a look at this pic.
I love Perm Motors!
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lol thats funny considering the car weighs 2 million Kg's.
that car looks like the old car though.. do you have the update ?
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I like the replicas best of all. 8) But I don't like the size of some arenas like the Cave and Bat cave arenas. Also, shouldn't the Pyramid and the HISTB arenas be in the tabletop section?
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I also think that the Monopoly arena and the Pyramid arena should be put into the tabletop category.
With the Pyramid arena, there should be some indacite (A line etc.) as to when you have gone too far off the Pyramid.
The Cave arena should be shortend down for less lagging, or taken off the tourny list.
But all in all, the replicas are excellent.
Also the level of realism that you have added to RA2 is incredible. I think you all have done an excellent job in trying to make a game as real as possible. It is almost nothing like the orgional game.
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I also think you should get the Cave arena off of the tourney arenas list. The arena lags just enough to mess up my driving, and now I just forfeit every tourney with that arena.
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Have any of you tried the cave arena since the patch ?
I put it as two player which reduced lag quite a bit. just wondering if it's still too much lag.
for arena's object's that don't move don’t cause much lag at all.. but as soon as you get things moving things slow down.. the boulder will slow things down and when you have 3 or 4 boulders moving this is where the lag comes in. LT made the cave arena and i find it's one of the best to play in. If LT comes back maybe we can do something about removing something but right now we kind of have our hands tied with this.
But let me know if you tried it since the patch and if it's any better.
I totally agree about arena's should be in different categories. But we had a problem with that. While we were able to do many things never done before one thing we did not figure out yet is how to make a arena work as a tabletop or king of the hill. if i put the monopoly arena in the table top category all bot's stop moving. same for king of the hill.. arena's can't be just moved around easy.
our crack arena maker is/was Lu-Tze and we don't have her around right now to advance much on arena's. Goose AW and I have made arena's but none of us are nearly as good as she is and so far we don't know why a table top is a table top arena.. the arena may look and work like a tabletop but in the game it does not recognize it as one.
DSL is a ongoing project and hopefully we made some major steps forward with the V1.1 patch. But over time we may see the need for V 1.2 to further balance this mod out. it was a major undertaking with so many parts and so much new that there was thousands of things that could have went wrong. extensive testing allowed us to to come pretty close on our firt attempt. and feedback from you guys allowed us to fix some things over looked or some things we just plain made mistakes on. More feed back will allow us to improve it even more... and since DSL is mot a one person project this allows many to carry on with the ball and the possibility of seeing some major addons or even a full blown V2.0 down the road.
DSL TC we hope set the new standard and if we were successful in this the project will add much more life to the game and allow it to live on longer than it could have ever hoped to by simple AI pack using the same old methods of bot building or new part packs that gave the few that wanted them something new to use.
This is a clean slate.. everyone has the same NEW parts so there is no more " That’s not stock" comments will come from DSL part’s. These are the new Stock parts and once all balanced the whole RA2 community will be better off for it.
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Likes:
I like all of the new components, arenas, and AI bots that aren't impossible to beat (looks at the AU BB pack).
Dislikes:
I don't like how some of the old components are no longer available (without changing anything).
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Currently with the motors set as they are, you are very hard pressed to make a half good spinner, and the bursts make pop-ups a joke.
The motors are ALL a little more powerful than the ones they replaced.
The 132 Perms are more powerful than HP Zteks and the smaller 80 Perms are more powerful than the std Zteks.
The NPC T-64 are designed to replace the redbirds, but are as powerful as Zteks, the fast is more powerful than the HP Ztek. The little slimbody is like the redbirds, and the tiny astro is like the angle motors, so your complaint in that area is invalid.
Erm... I don't know if my patch didn't install right or what, because all my motors except the NPC's are way less powerful than they used to be.
Perm 132 power = 48 25
6mag gearbox power = 48 56
Perm 80 power = 40 25
and so on
I'd have to agree with micro-maul on the spinners, it's very hard to make a good spinning weapon with those settings, and FBS's are totally out of the question, they are just too heavy for the motors to spin. I hope those really aren't supposed to be the stats on the spin motors, I liked in version 1.0 how spinners actually spun as fast as they did in real life. The drive motors are good, though, I like the 1.1 versions of those.
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CB we did a total rework of the motors you cant really look at what power it had before. sure the power is less but the draw may be more and the maxinoutrate also changed.
batterys had to be changed to do this so here is what you need to compare to in oder to understand them. take a stock Z-Tek look at its draw max in out and powers then look at one of the perms.. every motor should be a tad better than any stock version to stop the people from unlocking old parts. . if the motor was geared you got max speed higher. most motors weight more and draw more than originals but have more power.
here is the stock ztek
power = 36 24
elecMaxInOutRate = -200
now here is the perm
power = 48 25
elecMaxInOutRate = -425
as you can see it has much more power than the ztek and a small amount of torque more.
but it also draws more power.
here is the stock High power Z-tek which was the strogest motor in the game for spinners before.
power = 36 48
elecMaxInOutRate = -400
as you can see all the HP had was more torque
I did not do the motor balence so i am going by the directions i gave to go by for them.
At least this was my understanding of how they were supposed to be done.
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I've personally resorted to stocked (as some people used to do with the z-tecs) team wyachi spinners for any half decent spinner. I thought the idea was that the motors were meant to be more realistic, not just slightly better than the RA2 stock parts?
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I've personally resorted to stocked (as some people used to do with the z-tecs) I thought the idea was that the motors were meant to be more realistic, not just slightly better than the RA2 stock parts?
Your right that was/Is our goal.
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I just finished downloading and installing DSL...
Holy Shizznite! Being an all techno music man... PERFECT choice on the music! I haven't gotten into building or fighting yet, but if the music impresses me, the rest is sure to follow!
After I download and install the patch, I plan to start building! I have gone through the parts, and I must say... Very Nice! As long as these parts are not over powered like that AU AI pack was, I'm sure RA2 will take StarCraft's place as my favorite game!
I'll be sure to post more comments after more testing! :D
EDIT: I don't know how you guys feel about double posting, so I'm just going to edit this post.
Likes
-Music (techno and robots, perfect combo there guys!)
-All the new parts (nicely done!)
-House Robots! (I've always wanted to fight them!)
-All the new arenas!
Dislikes
-Slow motors! I've used every single motor for drive... Can't get a good rambot, they are too slow! I've used every single motor for spinning weapons... Can't get a good VSpinner or HSpinner, they are too slow!
--You really need to rework motor speeds.
-DSL Space Arena! The middle platform goes down too fast, causing damage. Also, when it gets almost to the top, it does this NASTY jerk, causing the bot to be LAUNCHED into orbit and come crashing down causing massive damage. This Must Be Fixed! One of two(or both) ways to make this area the best... Tweak the middle platform lowering speed and fix the nasty jerk at the top. OR... Have a long ramp that starts at the very edge of the arena and works its way around the arena to one of the upper platforms, this ramp should be wide enough to fit any sized bot, and an easy grade, so even the slowest bots can get to the top. There should also be a wall on the outside of the ramp so you do fall off and go OUT of the arena, leave the inside open so you can ram a bot off and make him start all over again! :D
-Part Weights! Some are just too heavy! Like the hammers, how am I supposed to make a good thwack bot when it goes slow? Lower the weights or make the burst motors more powerful.
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Again, more power or speed to the motors. Then, if you can, change the max connections to allow lots more. Also, I noticed that DSL is a lot less tolerant of multiple motor connections. Ever tried to put a perm on a lat servo piston?
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I love this! :lol:
The only problem is the speed of some motors(I'll have to tweak them :( )and the heavy components.
Good Job!
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LIKES:
-The new arenas
-The new parts
-The new garage
DISLIKES:
-The text/comments about some parts get off the screen so you cant read the whole text
-Check the names of the parts! These part names should be changed:
betaburst>Betaburst
FLipper Maker>Flipper maker
multiextender>Multi extender
aluminium>Aluminium (the skirt part)
shred wheel>Shred wheel
robotxwheel>RobotX wheel
pussycat Wheel>Pussycat wheel
backlash Wheel>Backlash wheel
technowheel>Techno wheel
hammerhead01>Hammerhead 1
hammerhead02>Hammerhead 2
hammerhead03>Hammerhead 3
hammerhead04>Hammerhead 4
Hammer Head>Hammerhead
matildatooth>Matilda tooth
hypnotooth>Hypno tooth
sirclaw>Killalot claw
backlashdisc>Backlash disc
clepblade>Cleprechaun disc
hypnodisc>Hypno disc
mechdisc>Mechavore disc
miniondisc>Minion disc
pussycatblade>Pussycat disc
ronindisc>Ronin disc
supernovadisc>Supernova disc
whirldisc>Whirl whep disc
double disc>Billy bot disc
vladpoker>Vlad spike
sirdrill>Killalot drill
matildaweapon>Matilda weapon
matildashornsleft>Matilda spikes
robotxspike>RobotX spike
tornadospike>Tornado spike
lightningspike>Lightning spike
typhoonspike>Typhoon spike
___________________________________________
that was just some of them, but i think you get the picture.
-Bots are too hard!
-Stronger Tminus snapper
Hope you can fix this!!! :o //Acegikmo
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Likes:
New interface,
New AI
New Tourneys
New Arenas
Dislikes:
Slow motors
The chassis lines (those graph papery things) Why? the original lines could double as measuring tools, but the new lines are too small to be used as such. The measuring tool in extras is a little tough to use, as I have always relyed on the lines. Also, since the larger lines are gone, my bots are more off-center.
Some of the connecting points are kind of odd.
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LIKES:
-The new arenas
-The new parts
-The new garage
DISLIKES:
-Bots are too hard!
-Stronger Tminus snapper
Hope you can fix this!!! :o //Acegikmo
well, maybe you should get better at the game,(or build better bots) i have no problem with the AI bots.
Anyone else have problems with the AI?
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i do...
but i suck at bot building.
i think they are fine
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the smaller lines on the chassis are to give you better percision. because they are smaller you can count exact lines instead of guessing if you are about in the center of a box.
Some txt's are crap.
Measure tool is easy to put on it will attach anywhere but i still use the chassis lines i find it easer.
I also have a hard time with drive motors keeping them exactl but i wonder if its not the parts.
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The absolute only thing I don't like about it is.....
It runs way too lagy. I know you have heard this a million times before, but today I got back into playing the game and I can't even build a bot because it lags to much. It took me about a half hour to get a few motors in a bot.
If there is some way to fix this you really should. I like DSL, but it isn't any good if you can't build bots.
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Never Mind. I just fixed my lag problem and started making a big vertical spinner like abombination.
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Well for the table top stuff... is there an option somewhere in 3ds max to make it a tabe or k.o.t.h.? also how are we suppose to have 4 people in the obstical course if it is in 2 oponet olny area? and you know the ramp to get to the area with the hazard floor? well the rapm up to there has a second part... the second up ramp has no collision... you fall through and get stuck... under the ramp... either take that second part out... or put colision there! also one of my best 1.0 bots got to a SHW bot after the 1.2 patch! I had to take batteries out and that made it weaker... but my problem with it not working properly was fixed scince I now have insightbb and downloaded it in a minute... fixed it all! but the burst ajust thing was still kicking me out of the game... but I had a backup of that file... anyway...
Like:AI reps
arenas
parts
reskins... base plate etc...
Dislike:need ALL house bots
the above obstical cource problem
the RW arena is still "mirrored" (check the robot wars arena topic in dst 2.0 ideas...)
FBS's don't spin up fast enough
need more control bords.. for the fun of it
shell... like RC cars... computers (like the robotica robot evil bever)... etc...
more batteries... different battery types...
motors... maybe old "salvaged" RC car parts
need some robotica arenas and bots... to use
tornado mer gearbox (4/6 motor gear box) too laggy if not in right spot... aka this part is intersecting another part and you need to move it over a littler bit...
update AI pics! we don't need to see that tornado used granny's before you made a tornado wheel... btw you all say that wheels aren't possiball... well what do you call all this stuff!? (hypno wheel, taz wheel, etc...)
more flipping style parts...
a rep of Beta... hecko you all have the burst! why not a bot!?
ok that seems that that is all... sorry if it is too jumbled...
EDIT:dislike... I can't make good flipers...
what we need: a NEW diesector... the one with the shiny blades and jaws... a "easy beast" rep with all weapons... "root canal" rep... and the ant "incinerator"
thats it for now... oh and a biger test arena.. with like 2 or 3 levels... and drops... and the fliper in the grarage does not flip... all you do is hit it... and fly ofer it... and it reverses controls while on it... fix that please! itneeds to flip... like take 3 seconds then fly!
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I DEFINIFTLY dislike the ai bots. WWWWWAAAAYYYY 2 hard 2 beat.
Someone Please Fix It. :(
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Ok I add my comment too.
I Like:
-New parts
-New menus
-New music
-New maps
I Dislike:
-On All vs. All fights all AI bots destroyes player's bot first.
-Hard to make good spinning defences even on 132 perm if that weights above 90kgs.
(- Make little smaller version of perm 132 and remove that chain from it so the power comes straight from the motor to the wheel or to something else so it wouldn't use so much space.)
-Zoom doesn't bring enough close. Like 1 or 2 clicks nearer would be nice.
-Robots look like new even they are destroyed. If you want to cover robots under panels make the panels bend so it looks more realistic. Like in this pic. :lol:
(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/9035/ihanmaassa0oi.th.jpg) (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ihanmaassa0oi.jpg) :lol: Little too realistic.
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W00t! I just got DSL working on my computer.
I like:
The new arenas. Blade arena and Robot Wars arenas are fun and the obstacle course is mind blowing.
New components (but it would be nice to have more)
New menus
I dislike:
A good majority of the AI bots are either flippers or spinners. It would be nice to have more hammers and CO2 ram bots.
There are still only four types of armor.
You can still only place 15 points on the grid when designing a chassis.
That's all so far seeing as I have just been playing DSL for a day.
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Well i think dsl ai is too easy they need to get reeeeally tough and starcore needs to come back to help it cause starcores ai pack was the only pack that put up a fight! but with click and fire beetle i think the next dsl will be even more kick butt then ever :D EDIT
likes:
it all man :D
dislikes:
weak ai
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likes,
all of it, almost
dislikes,
weak as heck armor, and no way to efficiently place armor plates
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I Like:
New Componets
New Arenas
Better backrounds
Better music
Replicas
New game modes
Better AI
I Dislike:
Those annoying consolation prizes that say Sh*t like: "you are last so you get the horses A**"
Some AI bots are literally Impossible
The Judge's Constant Havok Explosions
No way to attach Tornado's Wedge
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I don't get why you guys are yelling at him. He bumped a topic. So what? At least what he posted contributed at least a little bit.
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What you did, Natef, was reply to a topic that was 4 years old. This is b a d. This is also called 'bumping'. Bumping a thread thats coming up to a year old is frowned upon, but bumping a thread no-one's replyed to in 4 years? Nonononononono.
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Are you KIDDING guys? Whats wrong with bumping a topic if he actually contributes to it? Would you yell at some old veteran like perhaps luigica coming back and posting a bot in his showcase because he hasn't in over a year? No.
You would also yell at him for creating a new topic as well. Is ranting on noobs really all you guys can do for this forum?
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For a thread like this, it is not bad to bump as it is just your opinion on what you like/dislike about DSL. If it were about a certain event that happened years ago that would be different.
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For a thread like this, it is not bad to bump as it is just your opinion on what you like/dislike about DSL. If it were about a certain event that happened years ago that would be different.
^^^yep^^^
It is ALWAYS.....ALWAYS OK to bump old topics as long as you have something new to add....
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I agree with what he said about the consolation prizes.... Those things depress me.
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It is ALWAYS.....ALWAYS OK to bump old topics as long as you have something new to add....
better to bump than to make a new thread!
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Well, having read that, I see that I, amongst others, was in the wrong. I think we just reacted badly because bumping a 4 year old thread isn't generally a done thing. But you're right, he did actually contribute something.
Apologies to Natef =)
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I agree with what he said about the consolation prizes.... Those things depress me.
When you realize that all of the prizes are technically useless, you won't care about what you win. I enjoy seeing a nice Biggie burger rather then those big-ass trophies.
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I was talking about the text, not the actual prizes.
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I was talking about the text, not the actual prizes.
Oh yeah. Forgot how DSL has the "Robot Building for Dummies" box. And how it discredits you in the text and stuff.
Eh, not bothered about that.
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dsl3.0 might not have that
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I like the Consolation prizes.
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Likes:
Realism
AI-though I admit it can be hard as heck it really pushed me to improve my building
New Arenas
New Components
Dislikes-
MAJOR lag when I start a match in Exhibition.
Cave map and similar maps. The uneven surface does sh*t for my wedges and driving.
The annoying text for consolation prizes.
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I'll add something new to what I said before (if I actually said anything) and say - the unupdated yet visible Stock components are bad. The still-visible extenders could be useful if they were durable - or otherwise lightened.
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I agree. Another thing, Why are there stock componets in DSL 2.1, but we aren't allowed to use them in tournements or in showcases?
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Because some of them are used in some of the replicas.
SlapHappy uses HPZ drive as an example.
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Because some of them are used in some of the replicas.
SlapHappy uses HPZ drive as an example.
Interesting. Why hasn't/won't that be changed?
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Click will change that in DSL 3.0.
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BUMP(1Year)
I hate how it has to be realistic though it can be unrealistic
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DSL was made to be realistic. Its basis is realism. You can build unrealistic bots if you want, just don't showcase them.
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I like the fact that there are much more components in DSL, so we can build a greater variety of machines. Although there might be a bit of confusion over what's realistic and what isn't, like I had when I was starting out.
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DSL was made to be realistic. Its basis is realism. You can build unrealistic bots if you want, just don't showcase them.
Never did a certain Frenchman any harm...
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I see what u did there.
DSL WAS built for realism, but some things, such as the cheaty "Nar-mour", and AGOD's can't really be helped all that much.
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"Nar-mour"
That's brilliant.
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"Nar-mour"
That's brilliant.
That's what I'm gonna call skirt hinge armour from now on. Besides cheaty.
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I'll join you.
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And me!
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Me too.
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And mee!
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Awesome. He will be super confused when he gets back if we develop memes while he is away. :P
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Yeessss, me too :D
OT:
I like DSL more than stock due to the "relative" realism (bout 20 times more than stock though). I'm not a great fan of the invincible halfsheet, if there was a way to make the halfsheet breakoffable I would be fine with it. Though that would make popups and other gut rippers even better. Oh, and popups. I've built a couple, and sure, 1-2 hit KO's can be good, but they just push the boundaries of the realism a little too much for me. Don't like them in general. XD
*Disclaimer:If the above person has a bot or two that can be considered unrealistic, inform him immediately and he will do his best to rectify this (excludes the popups earlier in his showcase) to avoid looking like a tard in the above paragraph*
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Nar-mour, count me in :P
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AND MY AXE
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6824/dwarvesrogue.jpg)
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WIN^^^
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I see what u did there, Serge. ;)
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F*CK YEAH F*CK NO NARMOUR
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you guys can't just see how skirt hinge armor is awesome.
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And contradictory to your stance on realism.
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Realism went off since we forgot the spin motor's battery use and now use 2 ants by Dual Perm anyways.
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you guys can't just see how skirt hinge armor is awesome.
If awesome means God Mode, yeah I suppose.
Flails SnS and crawlers are more realistic and less imbalance than skirt hinge armor.