Author Topic: What's Up With Wedges? (Read 4911 times)

Urjak · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2010, 11:07:03 PM »

Quote from: NFX on October 10, 2010, 09:25:51 PM

Maybe, but on the Infinity Arena, which I'm told has an infinitely flat floor, most of the time weight distribution didn't give either bot an advantage. If anything, moving the weight forward proved to be a minor disadvantage.

Hmmmm... dang, wedges are just too complicated.

JoeBlo · « **Reply #21 on:** October 11, 2010, 05:14:45 AM »

^ yup ^ thats why its just easier to destroy the bloody things in a match :P

[self promotion] Backlash wont have such complexity [/self promotion]

*waits for Nary to post a negative response to such a comment*

123savethewhales · « **Reply #22 on:** October 11, 2010, 12:55:58 PM »

I always believe that the way wedge works is much more counter intuitive and random than most people think. After all, this physics engine is not the most accurate in simulating real life.

Based on these data, and some test I ran in the past, it seems to support that weight distribution has nothing to do with wedge power at all. The slight advantage/disadvantage probably just comes from luck/small sample size.

Urjak · « **Reply #23 on:** October 11, 2010, 01:25:14 PM »

Quote from: 123savethewhales on October 11, 2010, 12:55:58 PM

weight distribution has nothing to do with wedge power at all.

I would question that sentiment. I think the relationship is more random than we think, but yet still plays a part.

123savethewhales · « **Reply #24 on:** October 11, 2010, 01:41:54 PM »

The problem is, as long as the weights are in front of the back wheels (so wedge stays grounded), we don't have any empirical evidence suggesting that moving weight further to the front increases wedge power. We do however have multiple controlled experiments suggesting that moving the weights around makes virtually no difference.

Urjak · « **Reply #25 on:** October 11, 2010, 01:47:50 PM »

Quote from: 123savethewhales on October 11, 2010, 01:41:54 PM

We do however have multiple controlled experiments suggesting that moving the weights around makes virtually no difference.

The issue is we cannot truly isolate variables, or at least we can not be sure if we are. There are so many variables (faulty physics engine, weight distribution in certain areas of the bot, types of wedge, etc) that isolating just one of them and repeating it again and again is quite difficult.

123savethewhales · « **Reply #26 on:** October 11, 2010, 02:15:55 PM »

Here's another counter intuitive experiment involving ballast.

Condition
1. A chassis of 10x10, plastic 1.
2. 2 NPC fast in back with granny wheels
3. 2 batteries + control board at center
4. Bot has been tested to drive strait.

Experiment
Add 300kg worth of ballast to the left side.

Hypothesis
Bot will be left shifted when driving forward, due to the weight.

Result
Bot right shifted when driving forward.

Makes no sense whatsoever if you ask me.

Squirrel_Monkey · « **Reply #27 on:** October 11, 2010, 02:25:03 PM »

More pressure on the left side drive=more grip somehow?

NFX · « **Reply #28 on:** October 11, 2010, 02:45:46 PM »

That ballast thing happened to me as well for some reason.

Scrap Daddy · « **Reply #29 on:** October 11, 2010, 07:52:01 PM »

If you attach the wheels before the ballasts it will drive straight

Sage · « **Reply #30 on:** October 11, 2010, 08:31:58 PM »

which is why you always attach the wheels first

Clickbeetle · « **Reply #31 on:** October 13, 2010, 09:59:35 PM »

Still makes no sense.

I consider all of the usual "wedge rules" (weight distribution, pressure, etc.) as kind of like the Pirate's Code: more like guidelines than actual rules.

Kujii · « **Reply #32 on:** November 09, 2010, 02:13:54 PM »

Is it possible that wieght distribution isn't as meaningful as Speed?

perhaps the robot winning has the weight better distributed for speed, overpowering the weight advantage of the other one?

Naryar · « **Reply #33 on:** November 10, 2010, 01:23:17 AM »

It is possible indeed.

There is not enough experimentation on wedges anyway.

Kujii · « **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2010, 09:11:57 AM »

Perhaps, once I get everything figured out, I'll do some experiementatiion on this, sawblades and wedges were always favorites of mine when watching the RL battles.

Naryar · « **Reply #35 on:** November 10, 2010, 09:13:05 AM »

Sawblades

in stock, just to warn you.

Kujii · « **Reply #36 on:** November 10, 2010, 10:04:59 AM »

Do they fail in DSL too?

NFX · « **Reply #37 on:** November 10, 2010, 10:06:44 AM »

No, in DSL Sawblades are much better.

Kujii · « **Reply #38 on:** November 10, 2010, 10:08:15 AM »

Then info was irrelevant for me, I skipped stock and went to DSL.

(this is also likely why I'm havin probs, DSL appears to be less explanatory)

JoeBlo · « **Reply #39 on:** November 10, 2010, 09:28:35 PM »

?? how

many parts have the stats about them and stock parts have nothing :P