What's Up With Wedges?

[NFX]

Not entirely sure where else to post this, but I'm just curious about it.
 
Since I started out in RA2, I've never really been that good at building effective wedges on my bots, so I decided to see if what everyone's saying about weight distribution is true, whether or not it actually makes a difference. I made two identical bots, each with a chassis size of 7 squares long by 4 squares wide, NPC Fasts and Hypnos at the back, two Metal Hinge + DSL Bar + Small Wedge components at the front, and a fair amount of open space in the middle. Both had Plastic 1 armour to keep the weight down, and both had a 20kg Ballast, a 10kg Ballast and a Multi Extender mounted to the baseplate, just to eat up the rest of the weight.
 
However, one of them, which I had painted RED, had the ballasts mounted as far BACK in the chassis as possible, right back beside the wheels. The second one, which I had painted BLUE, had the ballasts mounted as far FORWARD as possible, right up by the wedges.
 
I tested the bots in my reskinned RA2T2 arena in a head-on charge, alternating starting positions each time, for 20 attempts. Out of the 20 head-on rushes, the RED bot outwedged the BLUE bot 50% of the time. The BLUE bot outwedged the RED bot only 20% of the time. 30% of the time, NEITHER bot outwedged the other, either the wedges would bounce off each other, or the bots each outwedge one of the opponent's wedges and become entangled.
 
Both test robots were identically constructed in every way, apart from the weight distribution, but by these results, most of the time, the robot with the weight as far BACK as possible somehow has BETTER wedges than the robot with the weight as far FORWARD as possible.
 
I recall another member - it might have been Urjak - testing this theory by mounting a bunch of Sir Killalot Drills on a skirt hinge right out over the wedges, and that seemed to disprove the current weight distro theory, but my test results seem to fly in the face of it even more. Could it be something other than weight distro that affects wedges?

[G.K.]

The arena also plays a factor. Try it in BBEANS arena and combat arena.

[JoeBlo]

this brings the long designs being intended to make wedges better.

I did play with artificial gravity components in the front of a robot over ballasts one time and the one that created more gravity on the front outwedged the standard ballast one 2/3 times

[Somebody]

BBEANS Arena is the only arena with a perfectly flat floor. Problem is that there is the spinner. Someone find something in the GMF to delete the spinner. I forget where but I have seen it done, and Badnik is currently in the process of getting rid of the saws in the RA2T2 arena, so it could not be to complicated could it?.

[NFX]

Combat Arena Wedge Test - 20 attempts, alternating positions.

RED outwedges BLUE 7 times - 35%
BLUE outwedges RED 6 times - 30%
NEITHER outwedged 7 times - 35%

I'll try it in the BBEANS arena next.

[Badnik96]

...Creepy.

[JoeBlo]

BBEANS Arena is the only arena with a perfectly flat floor. Problem is that there is the spinner. Someone find something in the GMF to delete the spinner. I forget where but I have seen it done,

easy done...

but probably easier to make an arena with a "plane floor" like what clicked used for the BBEANS arena (actually now that I think of it.. what does the infinity arena use ?)

[Squirrel_Monkey]

Infinity Arena has a plane floor

[G.K.]

BBEANS Arena is the only arena with a perfectly flat floor. Problem is that there is the spinner. Someone find something in the GMF to delete the spinner. I forget where but I have seen it done, and Badnik is currently in the process of getting rid of the saws in the RA2T2 arena, so it could not be to complicated could it?.

The infinity arena has it too and no obstacles.

[Scorpion]

If those test results are the same in the infinity arena then maybe it's the steepness of the wedge that makes the differrence.

[Gazea2]

this brings the long designs being intended to make wedges better.

 

I think that it also has a lot to do with luck. Sometimes my bots can outwedge Hot Wheels easily but later the same bots will struggle so these factors must play only a minor role in the "wedge war".

[NFX]

Infinity Arena Wedge Test - 20 attempts, alternating positions.

RED outwedges BLUE 5 times - 25%
BLUE outwedges RED 3 times - 15%
NEITHER outwedged 12 times - 60%
   
 
Cumulative Wedge Test (Combat, RA2T2 and Infinity Arena total) - 60 attempts

RED outwedges BLUE 22 times - 36.67%
BLUE outwedges RED 13 times - 21.67%
NEITHER outwedged 25 times - 41.67%

Remember the red and blue bots were absolutely identical, except for the positioning of 33kg of ballast in the chassis.
 
Therefore, according to the results, weight distribution and wedge effectiveness are unrelated.

[JoeBlo]

Infinity Arena has a plane floor

thought as much though never used the arena myself :P

I think that it also has a lot to do with luck. Sometimes my bots can outwedge Hot Wheels easily but later the same bots will struggle so these factors must play only a minor role in the "wedge war".

sometimes I dont know what your doing with the length of your robots :P

but its not a case of longer the better (as some would wonder if thats what you think :P) but a long design is said to be better then having the drive close to the wedge.. but honestly I spend most of my time killing robots before they can get a wedge under mine so I dont test this stuff :P

[Stagfish]

I found this with my Roadblock replica, it had four wheel drive and car steering and it easily outwedged bots like second sentinel.

[Pwnator]

*ahemItIahem*

[Naryar]

Wedges are a difficult matter, but as a rule of thumb long, heavy ones work best. With 2WD or 4WD on a line if possible.

[Urjak]

If I can add some info here. If anyone recalls my two robots "Dances with Knives" and "Kills with Knives," they had nearly unbeatable wedges in the BBEANS 5 Arena, but yet average wedges when fighting in the combat arena. So weight distribution probably plays a bigger part on some arenas than on others.

[Gazea2]

No, I believe that because regular arenas and small "bumps" on the floor but the BBEANS arena uses a Plane which is a flat floor. Those "bumps" must affect your robots wedges.

[Urjak]

Those "bumps" must affect your robots wedges.

Hence the reason I said, "weight distribution probably plays a bigger part on some arenas than on others."
What I mean is that on arenas with flatter floors, weight distribution probably has a greater affect on wedge effectiveness than on bumpier floors.

[NFX]

Maybe, but on the Infinity Arena, which I'm told has an infinitely flat floor, most of the time weight distribution didn't give either bot an advantage. If anything, moving the weight forward proved to be a minor disadvantage.