DSL realistic and IRL realism

[MikeNCR]

There's somewhere between 10-20 threads that have been invaded by discussion of whether a technique, bot type or weapon setup is realistic.


These are my interpretations of the two types of realism:


DSL realistic-
No intersecting parts unless a slot or cutout could reasonably be made. Essentially, this is no stacking/parts cutting through other parts completely, and seems to cover the vast majority of DSL realistic.


I would propose the exception to the basic rule that if there is a reasonable way to modify the bot if it were real, then it should be allowed. This would allow for things like ring spinners, hollow shafts, etc... The only difficulty is determining what goes too far.


IRL realism-
IRL is much harder to define in concrete terms, so I'll just focus on a few of the more contentious issues:


Wedges: I see no reason to ban metal hinge wedges. The skirt hinges, as best I can tell, do not work, which would only leave axel wedges as an option. There are many real combat bots that have semi-ridged wedges that have a controlled, very limited movement range to prevent the wedge moving into a position that harms mobility or intersects a weapon path. Outside of that, there's currently no way outside of metal hinge, servo or burst wedging to get a strong, fixed, effective wedge like the ones you'd see on just about any 2wd wedge.


I can see the merit of the "no metal hinges at the bottom of the chassis" idea, but for ai tournaments, there will need to be a means of briefly activating any wedges for the first few moments of the fight to allow them to settle into position.


Flails: Of the flail weapons that exist, most use a small number of flails(2-4) and generally heavier components. I'd think a good compromise point would be flails are fine, in small numbers and when using heavy impact components(hammers, heavy blades, etc...)


Weapon heads: The general tendency would be to favor larger weapons wherever possible, though there are some shell and disk spinners that use more, smaller teeth. In addition, drums generally have either two long impact bars or a bunch of small ripping teeth.

There's plenty more to be added to the topic regarding specific bot types and weapon system specifics.

[Somebody]

There is an AI to allow a robot to drop wedges or other things at the start of a match for a set amount of seconds. PrepOmni.py

I don't know off the top of my head if its been released but I use it for Scorpion's bot Fatal Tragedy in COTT, for the side skirt hinges to drop to floor level.

[123savethewhales]

Flails: Of the flail weapons that exist, most use a small number of flails(2-4) and generally heavier components. I'd think a good compromise point would be flails are fine, in small numbers and when using heavy impact components(hammers, heavy blades, etc...)

You might as well ban flail if you make it heavy/concussion weapons only, because flails reduce concussion damage in this game.

[Clickbeetle]

I think a good guideline for IRL realistic is if you can find a real life example of what you're trying to do, it should be allowed.  If the realism is at all debatable and you can't find a real life example, it's not allowed.
 
Example: Flails do exist in real life.  There are several examples of bots with 2 flails on a spinner.  But 8 flails?  No.
 
Similarly, hinged wedges/forks do exist in real life.  But huge long 120cm angled sheets?  That's taking it too far.

[MikeNCR]

I think a good guideline for IRL realistic is if you can find a real life example of what you're trying to do, it should be allowed.  If the realism is at all debatable and you can't find a real life example, it's not allowed.
 
Example: Flails do exist in real life.  There are several examples of bots with 2 flails on a spinner.  But 8 flails?  No.
 
Similarly, hinged wedges/forks do exist in real life.  But huge long 120cm angled sheets?  That's taking it too far.

I like this criteria, however, in response to the last point-






Maybe the more specific version would be related to long wedges that are essentially parallel to the combat surface.

[Clickbeetle]

Maybe the more specific version would be related to long wedges that are essentially parallel to the combat surface.

Yeah that's more what I was thinking of.

[JoeBlo]

For the purposes of less confusion perhaps we can rename..

DSL Realistic to DSL Standard

Just a thought so it someone says "Realistic Rules Apply" or "Standard Rules Apply" we know what the difference is?

[123savethewhales]

I don't like the name change.  IRL Realism is descriptive and should therefore remain as such.

If it's an attempt to imitate real life down to it's function, then it's IRL Realistic.  This standard should transient DSL patch into Stock and possibly backlash in the distant future.

Besides, it will be even more confusing to reused the word DSL Realism which already have it's own meanings embedded after all these years.

I don't have problem as to rather or not to change the current DSL Realism to DSL Standard.