gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: 70 CUDA on May 20, 2008, 02:54:09 AM
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i have been thinking for some time that we should standardize the SHW class for RA2. after trying for some time i cant think of a better way then to add 500 Kg to the HW limit of 800. thuse i think that the SHW class should weigh no more the 1300Kg and no less then 800.1. let me know what you guys think.
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I totally agree for standardizing.
Perhaps more... SC3's SHWs are near 3500 kg each, but I will recommend 1500 kg. Any time I built a SHW it was in the 1300-1400 size.
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ok sounds good as long as most of us agree on it.
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My SuperHeavyWeight is too heavy I guess....
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this is a dumb idea.
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It is also pointless, as there is very few superheavyweights anyway.
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if we can make it a real class we can have tournys and have some real stuff to judge them on. i have about 20 SHW but i dodnt post them as theres no rules yet.
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How about calling them MegaHeavyWeights, and letting SuperHeavyWeight refer to the super heavy ones that are too heavy to be in the weight class?
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LMAO!
I agree with CUDA, Id like to see SHW tournies and we could showcase them "officially" as a normal weight class.
This is actually a good idea FC, but i dont really like the MHW name...
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i think you got the names backerds FC. lol
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Then what I to say?... :lol:
With my above 7000kg hahahahah...
But i made some new better bots that are around ~ 3500...
So im for that: that SHW bots must be between 800 and 3500 !
But you forgot one very small thing...
Loading time !
So better judge bots by him not by how they weight...
I found also that not weight make bots loading a lot but puting many parts on one part... For example the infinite was loading for ~2 min almos ready and when i just add few spinners now is 30 min so...
Complicated weapons make lag not many parts or weight...
Why dont you try to make bots with many parts and big weight,but without many parts attached to each other and will see what happen then...
For example bots with complicated weapons like bots that are with waepons close to "no more than 7 parts att. rule" are too lagy even that they are HW!
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7000kg bots suck. Make a very good LW, this is the proof of greatness.
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ok i see that you guys dont get the point of limiting a class.im all for 3500kg but even that seems a bit to much of a leap from HW to SHW.
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whats wrong with posting them. the point of a SHW is to put as much as absolutely possible on there while keeping it movable. why should there be a limit?
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LMAO!
I agree with CUDA, Id like to see SHW tournies.
In which case the tournament host can decide on the weight limit of the robots.
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the main reason i wanted to do this is that it is a real life wight class. we have AW and BW so i thought that it would be nice.
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I think we SHOULD have SHW class, esp for Tourneys. It would logically be nicer if it were set in stone, because then you could work on it/them anytime. Perhaps a consensus of members,..... And periodically the Host could do K-3's suggestion too.
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Perhaps one limit that is around 801-1800 and another around 1801-4000, and everything above is considered GigaHeavyWeight (or another name).... That way, the starcore SHWs still fit a class, and very few bots above 4000 kg would be defeatable in a short enough time for a tournament, so there is no limit to them. (Just throwing out ideas)
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Why make a weight for a class thats cheating? I mean really....How many people show of SHWs that you need an actual weight limit for them? Just let people make em as heavy as they want unless its a tournament and I dont think many people would make a SHW tourny.
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The idea of a superheavyweight is the fact that you have no weight limit at that point. Why should we restrain this idea? If a tournament host wants to put a weight limit over the 800kg limit, so be it, but don't restrict us for something that is supposed to be open ended. (Most SHW sizes are restricted by the people's patience with the match load times anyways)
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Finally a smart one answer about this topic from kill343gs...
And belive me : NO ONE WILL MAKE BOT ABOVE ~8000 or so cos you cant imagine what loading time is this,trust me,50% of crash game or 50% i must wait ~30 min for loading the infinite to edit him on overclocked intel quad core on 3.0 ghz so....
But i think for packs like starcore is important loading time not weight...
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thats funny i have bot that tips the scales at 12.6k with no fridges. so they are done venko. but i am sry i wasted the space on this topic as ideas are hard to get across in a froum. dont missunderstand me i just wanted to cover a space i thought was open but i was worng. thanks for the feedback guys. btw i WILL host a SHW tourny if anyone is in to it.
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Finally a smart one answer about this topic from kill343gs...
And belive me : NO ONE WILL MAKE BOT ABOVE ~8000 or so cos you cant imagine what loading time is this,trust me,50% of crash game or 50% i must wait ~30 min for loading the infinite to edit him on overclocked intel quad core on 3.0 ghz so....
But i think for packs like starcore is important loading time not weight...
Wrong. Go and see Hammer of Justice by Firebeetle. He weights 600 tons. And I've seen him on Youtube... he is perhaps two times the size of the Combat Arena.
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For your tourny CUDA, Ill enter. But what is the weight limit?
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Venko, It's not mainly the SIZE of the bot/geomobject that really increases lag, it's the total number of VERTICES(angles) that the computer has to calculate. Thus a square arena floor is less calculating than a round wheel on a bot; 8 vertices compared to 30+ respectively. These vertices can be demo-ed by the number of angle points you select to form the shape of your bot in the lab. The comp can handle these no problem, but as you add more geomobjects (and especially rounder ones) the required caculating adds up quickly. So it's not the weight of a SHW that causes lag, but the number of components used to make him a SHW that causes the lag.
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So basically, the more complex polyhedra you have in collision meshes , the more it lags?
Huh, I just Wiki-ed the thing and I now know the meaning of "Vertex"...
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Yea, Naryar. And not just Collision meshes, but also Display meshes.
Thus the 'Battle Box' arena is much "laggier" than the giant 'Empty' arena which is perhaps 10x larger.
When I build arenas (and components), I strive to make objects as simple as possible while maintaining aesthetics. This leaves more 'computer calculating' for the bots and their functionings.
ACAMS did the same with the USS Enterprise.gmf he made for me.
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did you read this in my previous post?
"I found also that not weight make bots loading a lot but puting many parts on one part... For example the infinite was loading for ~2 min almos ready and when i just add few spinners now is 30 min so...
Complicated weapons make lag not many parts or weight...
Why dont you try to make bots with many parts and big weight,but without many parts attached to each other and will see what happen then...
For example bots with complicated weapons like bots that are with waepons close to "no more than 7 parts att. rule" are too lagy even that they are HW!"
How can you explain it...
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did you read this in my previous post?
"I found also that not weight make bots loading a lot but puting many parts on one part..
Your point here is good and true, Venko,... but only in part.
Complicated weapons make lag not many parts or weight.... Why dont you try to make bots with many parts and big weight,but without many parts attached to each other and will see what happen then...
This is the part that isn't true.
Explanation:
(1) In the bot file, the comp loads the same amount of info whether a component is attached to the base of the bot or another component. So 7 consecutive components attached in a line, bears the same amount of info to crunch as 7 components attached to the bot's base. Total number of vertices is the same too.
(2) But there IS a difference in computer load between 7 consecutive components and 7 base attached components IF the components are 'dynamic' (motors, pistons,...). But this has little to do with the total number of vertices. When attaching a dynamic component to another dynamic component (motor/piston/servo to another motor/piston/servo) both Havoc and the comp work allot harder calculating each of the physical properties, dynamics, and effects of the series; and the farther away from the first, the more complicated to calculate (exponentially, IMO). Thus you can easily have 4 pistons attached to the base of your bot, but not 4 pistons atached to one another without functioning problems. Same with spinmotors, servos, etc....
BTW: This is what enables many assembly glitches.
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thats funny i have bot that tips the scales at 12.6k with no fridges. so they are done venko. but i am sry i wasted the space on this topic as ideas are hard to get across in a froum. dont missunderstand me i just wanted to cover a space i thought was open but i was worng. thanks for the feedback guys. btw i WILL host a SHW tourny if anyone is in to it.
What would the limit be, if there was one?
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3.25K guys if you want to be in it then it will be after my tourny.
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ZOMG! i'd have to enter a 3,25K VS! l0lz!
Can I suggest a few rules?
-No more than two different weapon types (example, hybrid Rammer/HS is okay, but dont add a hammer on it), this for sparing CUDA's sanity.
-No multibots, for the same reason(that'll make 4 SHWs, three against one, in the arena...) and for decreasing lag
-Bots must show controlled movement at all times, but non-wheeled things are allowed if they can drive and steer at least in a bad way (so controlled bumble bees are in, happy Venko?)
-Fights will last 5 minutes, 'cause theres no such thing as a 1 hit kill in SHWs.
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ok all that seems good. have fun making them guys
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I don't think 5 minutes is long enough for a SHW battle....
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ill take a look in the the time of each match
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I don't think 5 minutes is long enough for a SHW battle....
Good point. I was thinking that too, but put 5 minutes...
Well O.K. it will be 10 minutes then, but beware the batteries...
So Ill add:
-If a havok incurs and gives a CLEAR help to one of the bots, then restart the match (as BBEANS)
-Match time is 10 minutes.
What about the arena? Itll be fun to make that on the Octagon, but not very practical. The Combat Arena looks like the solution.
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If you turn off the hazards, the octagon might work, but the combat arena is the usual fit.
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Or you could get a slightly bigger arena like the huge arena or something, but theres the problem of the high fall spawn point.
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Wouldn't it also be hard to get the camera close to where the bots are actually fighting?
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You could use the Infinite Arena (so that it the bots have normal starting points and because it is very low lag) with the F10 camera.
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ok i might be able to fix the high starting point, but so far i like what im seeing. thanks for your input
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Empty arena has 4 normal starting points. I think that you could use that too.
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ok everyone knows that this is a DSL SHW tourny right? im gonna use DRUMZILLA V3 so have some fun with it.
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...CRAP! I thought that was a stock SHW tourney!
OK then... I guess Ill have some fun.
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(sorry for the double post)
Besides, what antiballast do you use in DSL? Anti Neutron Star Piece?
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if we can make it a real class we can have tournys and have some real stuff to judge them on. i have about 20 SHW but i dodnt post them as theres no rules yet.
I agree. I am currently in the process of making a SHW. In fact, I have one already finished. Weighing almost 1000kg.