gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: System32 on August 11, 2011, 10:34:29 PM
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Okay, okay, this thread is useless. The whole reason I have it here is to promote a discussion into the direction we are going in, and to encourage as many niches in RA2land as possible.
Disclaimer: I'm not an older veteran, but I'm a listener. I may be wrong here.
To start with: Building today, and how it got there.
RA2 has several factors that have the effect of making RA2 building the way it is. I'm talking to the bigest and most obvious of them.
AI, Arenas, Culture.
AI.
AI is pretty basic. the main tactic is to shove whatever is nearest and keep on shoving until a timer pops up. This works, because all stock AI never had tactics like driving backwards when something gets under them, or attacking from the sides. The main reason I see for this is the fact the arena hazards never were a threat (I'll deal with this next), they are always off (I'll tackle this later, too) and Online play was broken (Discussed here. (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,7974.msg399768.html#msg399768)). Only in recent years thanks to modders have more and more advanced AI tactics showed up. For a personal example, I tried to create a Popup specific AI using an AI suited to popups and an AI that makes bots flank foes before attacking. I failed, but it is a prime example of some of the variation within RA2 AI in the modern day.
AI is more effective than man. There are rarely small mistakes, hesitations and ingenious tactics such as dancing around a hazard or going for a wheel over the main bot. In RA2, the AI usually charges blindly, and everything usually supports that.
Additionally, the judge "AI" (Or mechanics for judging robots in fights) is simple, and chooses a simple factor to seperate winners from losers: Damage. Flipping an opponent out isn't as highly regarded as outright killing them. There have been steps to counter this, as one 2011 tournament has recently used non damage based judging.
Arenas.
Arenas are made by modders of the community, and by proxy the culture or RA2 decides the arenas, creating an echo chamber. Thus, the arenas in RA2 (or the popular ones) are usually flat, rectangular, have no hazards or weak ones and might have a wall to flip out opponents. The BBEANS arena has a hazard in the center to change that, and a set of flippers to prevent the "pinning" mechanic that occurs frequently which gives some types of bot an edge over another.
This is one of the few exeptions to the rule, as some deaths caused by arena hazards are seen as unfair and cheap. Even the BBEANS arena's blade is weaker than it could be, to prevent "unfair" losses. The fact that the bots are put under the care of AI and as such leave the builders feeling subconciously that their bots are "vulnerable" encourages this sort of arena.
The only way for more hazardous arenas is for the community to lighten up over tournaments and thus losses from arena hazards and other threats not related to the direct opponent.
Culture.
RA2 is a primarily online game nowadays, with little to offer in singleplayer. All the challenge is made by the community and as such there is a competitive feel that is everywhere. This feel makes loss worse than it usually is from an outside observer, and as such arenas and tournaments are made in a way where any unfair losses due to luck are removed.
This feel drives away some light-hearted builders, and changes the rest due to peer pressure. (I don't have anything else to put here, exept that if we took stuff like tournaments a little less to heart we might have a better game, from the varied and entertainment stadpoint. Keep in mind that was subjective, and the "No items, fox only, final destination" style gameplay may be more entertaining to some.)
tl;dr: Just read it, moron. I don't have time for idiocy.
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I'm posting here incase I need to put something near the first post.
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Culture.
RA2 is a primarily online game nowadays, with little to offer in singleplayer. All the challenge is made by the community and as such there is a competitive feel that is everywhere. This feel makes loss worse than it usually is from an outside observer, and as such arenas and tournaments are made in a way where any unfair losses due to luck are removed.
This feel drives away some light-hearted builders, and changes the rest due to peer pressure. (I don't have anything else to put here, exept that if we took stuff like tournaments a little less to heart we might have a better game, from the varied and entertainment stadpoint. Keep in mind that was subjective, and the "No items, fox only, final destination" style gameplay may be more entertaining to some.)
Yep, same concept as every other game out there.
Spikes - Players who are "serious-gamers" and play to win, and build robots with a competetive edge that nets them a strong robot.
Scrubs - Players who "play for game" and don't care if they win or lose, they just wanted to be part of the action and enjoyed themselves in the process.
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Well worded, and right to the point as well. I think you should also mention what makes Good Builders, well Good Builders, since now this community now has a nostalgic real life building example that is also taken in sort of high regard as well as aesthetics, proof of concepts, and complete weapon spam.
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This feel drives away some light-hearted builders, and changes the rest due to peer pressure. (I don't have anything else to put here, exept that if we took stuff like tournaments a little less to heart we might have a better game, from the varied and entertainment stadpoint. Keep in mind that was subjective, and the "No items, fox only, final destination" style gameplay may be more entertaining to some.)
I totally agree. Since I fall into the category of "Light Hearted builder" I watch this pretty closely as new tournaments are announced. Yoda's "Our replicas are Different" Tournament is a prime example of builders having fun while competing. Also, the replica tournaments fall into that category (mostly) as well. Badnik's current "Blades of Fury" tournament has me interested... however the rules give people quite a bit of slack to make a powerful bot. He is the judge to which bots are accepted, but I feel that several people will try to push the envelope in order to win the tournament.
I don't fault them for that though, people like to win. It is a great feeling. Some, are more competitive than others. When you are dealing with a forum based off of people in a core age group less than 20 years old, competitiveness is inevitable really. Younger people cherish the gratification of winning. Whereas, when you get older you find that winning isn't everything and sometimes it is far more gratifying to chill out and just have fun. But, that wisdom comes with time. It isn't something that you can cram down a persons throat.
Great writeup Sys32. *+respect*
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I understand that you are giving the most general case as possible but here are just a few unmentioned exceptions/notes/solutions.
AI is pretty basic. the main tactic is to shove whatever is nearest and keep on shoving until a timer pops up. This works, because all stock AI never had tactics like driving backwards when something gets under them, or attacking from the sides.
There actually hasn't been very many additions to the AI tactics over the years. The biggest and most universal addition was Click's Ram and modified Charge tactics.
The engage tactic is by far, the most used tactic in today's AI.py files. It basically keeps moving towards the opponent until the opponent is with its radius (which is unfortunately also used for hazard and wall avoidance).
The shove tactic tries to push the opponent into neighboring hazards. Underused as a result of hazards being off and the requirement of a map file.
The charge tactic backs up for ramming purposes when it isn't moving very fast. Click modded this to be smarter (ex. not backing into opponent).
The original stock AI actually came with a flanking tactic named reorient but it was only used by chopper.py (a hammer AI) and it wasn't very advanced.
Additionally, the judge "AI" (Or mechanics for judging robots in fights) is simple, and chooses a simple factor to seperate winners from losers: Damage. Flipping an opponent out isn't as highly regarded as outright killing them. There have been steps to counter this, as one 2011 tournament has recently used non damage based judging.
We could add something to give exponentially more points the higher the bot is thrown but there would be some serious balance issues.
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If anything I'd ask to see points taken away from being hit by hazards.
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I'm unsure what argument you're trying to make with the original post. Is it merely a chronicle in your view of how the RA2 community has been shaped by various factors? It seems rather encyclopedia-like to me. However, if your goal is to foster discussion on how the community handles RA2 in the future, then I'll gladly make a contribution:
In my view, RA2 online is and has always been an arms race at its core. It's simply the nature of the game. I mean, the whole point of RA2 is to build the most vicious machine that you can and systematically dismantle your opposition with it, both in the single player game and online. Hence, using J's definitions, we're all "spikes" to some degree by merely playing the game. Because of this, we've always been trying to make the best machine out there within the parameters we've outlined for ourselves. This is where we've begun to run into problems.
Waaaaaaaaay back when, the pioneers of both Stock and DSL felt it necessary to lay down some guidelines to preserve the sanctity of the game. In Stock, we had the "you can only build inside the botlab" rule. In DSL, we had the "realistic" rule. Remember, these were postulated years and years ago, back when guys like eFFeeMMe were in their heyday. From my point of view, both of the standards that we have previously held have long become antiquated. Hax mode allows you to do things inside the botlab that were once impossible, making it obvious that the old Stock rule needed (and probably still needs) to be revised. And then, we have DSL.
Since the community migrated from the official forums to Gametechmods, DSL's evolution and growth in popularity have been enormous. I remember a time when only a few played DSL. In fact, if you look at the competitors in BBEANS 2 and then BBEANS 4, you'll notice three particularly successful bot types that were absent in the former but present in the latter: the popup (Enfilad3), the juggler (Hazardous Contraption) and the flail shell spinner (Iron Spaghetti). All three of these were once primarily Stock designs that migrated to DSL in and around the time of BBEANS 4 due to a sudden surge in popularity. It was at this point that we started to really stretch the realistic rule.
I'll admit, the realistic rule has always been "if you can build it in real life, it's okay," but that was before people started building gut rippers and flail spinners in DSL. Sure, you can still build these bots in real life, but would they work? Of course not. Your IRL opponents would laugh at you should you slide underneath them and begin tickling their underbelly or gently caressing their flanks with your spinner. When applying the realistic rule on recent bots, we've all been focusing solely on the form of the bot, but not the function. Shouldn't a rule dictating how to build a bot apply to both? Of course it should, because we've ended up with a plethora of bot types that are so comically unrealistic in terms of how they work that we've all completely lost sight of a) the purpose of this rule and b) what "realistic" actually means!
We can all Google the meaning of "realistic," so I'll only address issue a) here. The purpose of the realistic rule wasn't to prevent DSL from becoming Stock, like I've seen some people assert. It was to encourage building life-like robots, like RA2 had originally promised us, and by proxy would have the effect of preventing another Stock-like glitch fest. If the sole purpose of the realistic rule was to avoid another Stock, then why bother to encourage realism? Why not just ban stacking? Surely, this would be much simpler had they wanted to accomplish only the avoidance of Stock, but the denizens of DSL chose in very specific terms the "realistic" rule.
The "arms race" mentality at the core of RA2 has kept us pushing the boundaries of the realistic rule for years now. This rule is old, and in desperate need of being either ammended, updated or replaced, yet for some reason, we keep drinking the Kool-Aid and telling ourselves that our latest killer machines are realistic, just so they can keep being accepted in our showcases and winning in tournaments. DSL building is clearly not going to change, but a line in the sand needs to be drawn somewhere. S32 had a good idea recently, about a "DSL Standard" in place of "realism." Basically, nothing changes with how we build in DSL, only the words we use to classify it. Of course, we'll also need to update the language surrounding the realistic rule, and maybe even keep an official set of guidelines somewhere, but that's a different discussion that I don't really want to get into at 12:33 at night. Perhaps a bit later, since this is a far better place than Urjak's showcase to do it (@Urjak: sorry by the way, it must seem like I'm constantly picking on you, or at least trying to. I'm really not and I have huge respect for your skill as one of the top DSL builders).
But it's time to stop kidding ourselves guys, we're not building realistic bots anymore. We're merely building bots without stacking.
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You wanted discussion? You now have a discussion. Go crazy :P
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Is it merely a chronicle in your view of how the RA2 community has been shaped by various factors? It seems rather encyclopedia-like to me. However, if your goal is to foster discussion on how the community handles RA2 in the future
Bingo and bingo. These are my personal thoughts and observations, and I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought.
I do think the idea of having a small set of basic "Standards" for stock, DSL and future mods might be interesting. I'll flesh these up later.
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I tried to make a set of standards for Backlash and majority shot them down..
Funny enough it was based around the claimed "IRL building" and now thats the only thing people make tournaments for these days..
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(@Urjak: sorry by the way, it must seem like I'm constantly picking on you, or at least trying to. I'm really not and I have huge respect for your skill as one of the top DSL builders).
Hey, it's all cool. I for one am glad my bot seems to have invoked some great discussion. :)
I tried to make a set of standards for Backlash and majority shot them down..
Odd... I don't think I think I remember that. What were said standards going to be?
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Class specific parts.. to encourage more IRL type building and also allow classes to be balanced separately so one single class didn't become the sole building standard.
I even had some people telling me what the Backlash standards were at one point :ermm:
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Class specific parts.. to encourage more IRL type building and also allow classes to be balanced separately so one single class didn't become the sole building standard.
That doesn't sound too bad; at least it is an original take on the whole idea of bot types.
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But that would make everyones bots look relatively the same, removing a lot of originality.
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^ good impression of one of the many people that never read what I put in the thread ^
robots are only as generic as the builder..
You would have been able to make that type of robot anyway you normally would.. just parts would be balenced, designed and favored to that bot type..
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So I can make a flipper with a saw on the rear?
EDIT: And I have read your post, you want class specific parts.
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So I can make a flipper with a saw on the rear?
You sure cant, Backlash is a Spinner mod..
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Then why have class-specific parts when there is only one class and its sub-classes?
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Class specific parts.. to encourage more IRL type building and also allow classes to be balanced separately so one single class didn't become the sole building standard.
I thought it was quite a good idea actually
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Then why have class-specific parts when there is only one class and its sub-classes?
Umm... HS, VS, FS, SS, Sawbot, Juggler, TS. I think there are several classes of spinner.
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They all come under the term "Spinner" though dont they?
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I thought it was quite a good idea actually
Thanks, you were one of the 10(?) people :P
Doesnt matter now, the IRL approach was dropped from Backlash (its DSL 3's yard anyway) and it focuses more on the "Extreme" image..
Best be on topic now, we are sidetracking from S32's original point..
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They all come under the term "Spinner" though dont they?
IIRC the classes were HS, VS, SS, SnS and Drum
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And that posts adds to the conversation how exactly?
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It adds more then that one ^
He just told you exactly what class' I used in the class separation of the Backlash: First Blood demo..
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Do you know what I want to say? This game's community is one of the worst I've actually seen for a game. While the modders do good work, the actual community is elitist, and prevents free choice. I've picked this up from all the lurking around not only the forums but some of the fan's websites, and building tips. From first hand experience I've had lots of trouble settling in as a newbie, and I'm sure any other new people that even look at this community will be driven away. It is powered purely by nostalgia.
If you didn't like what you just read, please ignore it.
I've been waiting to say this for a long time now.
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Thanks, you were one of the 10(?) people :P
It would have been 11 if I saw the thread...
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Do you know what I want to say? This game's community is one of the worst I've actually seen for a game. While the modders do good work, the actual community is elitist, and prevents free choice. I've picked this up from all the lurking around not only the forums but some of the fan's websites, and building tips. From first hand experience I've had lots of trouble settling in as a newbie, and I'm sure any other new people that even look at this community will be driven away. It is powered purely by nostalgia.
If you didn't like what you just read, please ignore it.
I've been waiting to say this for a long time now.
This deserves a reply. What is so bad about our community?You claim there is no free choice and that the community is elitist. I don't really understand what you mean. You can build whatever you want, it's just that showcasing really bad bots (unless the look really cool) is generally not liked by the community because it makes it seem like they have no desire to improve, thus it seems like a waste of time for them to have a showcase. You also claim that this community will scare off any newcomers. This is clearly false, as the community has seen a recent increase in members.
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Do you know what I want to say? This game's community is one of the worst I've actually seen for a game. While the modders do good work, the actual community is elitist, and prevents free choice. I've picked this up from all the lurking around not only the forums but some of the fan's websites, and building tips. From first hand experience I've had lots of trouble settling in as a newbie, and I'm sure any other new people that even look at this community will be driven away. It is powered purely by nostalgia.
If you didn't like what you just read, please ignore it.
I've been waiting to say this for a long time now.
This deserves a reply. What is so bad about our community?You claim there is no free choice and that the community is elitist. I don't really understand what you mean. You can build whatever you want, it's just that showcasing really bad bots (unless the look really cool) is generally not liked by the community because it makes it seem like they have no desire to improve, thus it seems like a waste of time for them to have a showcase. You also claim that this community will scare off any newcomers. This is clearly false, as the community has seen a recent increase in members.
...like me. I think most of the guys here in GTM are good guys and will be happy to help you out (Craaig, JoeBlo etc.). However there are a small minority who see this forum as an opportunity to mess around, complain, and be an absolute n00b about everything. Settling in here I found many willing to give me advice on how to improve my robots and help me settle in.
Eltist? You really have to be kidding....
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Do you know what I want to say? This game's community is one of the worst I've actually seen for a game. While the modders do good work, the actual community is elitist, and prevents free choice. I've picked this up from all the lurking around not only the forums but some of the fan's websites, and building tips. From first hand experience I've had lots of trouble settling in as a newbie, and I'm sure any other new people that even look at this community will be driven away. It is powered purely by nostalgia.
If you didn't like what you just read, please ignore it.
I've been waiting to say this for a long time now.
You are absolutely free to post whatever you want in your showcase, and you are even free to edit your showcase as you wish. How does that prevent free choice ?
All what we are doing is giving advice to showcasers who can't build efficiently, and they are free to accept it or not. However, if you go all contradictory and complain about advice in your showcase, sure people are going to whack you.
Actually from what I have seen you spammed your own showcase with derogative comments because inf did what he does usually, and you have overreacted because he considered your bots subpar, and that's what they are compared to the average stock builder. Judging from this, I have many reasons to call you a drama queen.
Will complaining ever help ? No. Also, Urjak has two good points as well.
And Smashy, yes we are elitist. The better builders/modders/contributors have more influence and respect that some random newbie, and I see this as totally normal.
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Do you know what I want to say? This game's community is one of the worst I've actually seen for a game. While the modders do good work, the actual community is elitist, and prevents free choice. I've picked this up from all the lurking around not only the forums but some of the fan's websites, and building tips. From first hand experience I've had lots of trouble settling in as a newbie, and I'm sure any other new people that even look at this community will be driven away. It is powered purely by nostalgia.
If you didn't like what you just read, please ignore it.
I've been waiting to say this for a long time now.
You are absolutely free to post whatever you want in your showcase, and you are even free to edit your showcase as you wish. How does that prevent free choice ?
All what we are doing is giving advice to showcasers who can't build efficiently, and they are free to accept it or not. However, if you go all contradictory and complain about advice in your showcase, sure people are going to whack you.
Actually from what I have seen you spammed your own showcase with derogative comments because inf did what he does usually, and you have overreacted because he considered your bots subpar, and that's what they are compared to the average stock builder. Judging from this, I have many reasons to call you a drama queen.
Will complaining ever help ? No. Also, Urjak has two good points as well.
And Smashy, yes we are elitist. The better builders/modders/contributors have more influence and respect that some random newbie, and I see this as totally normal.
Meh, fair enough.
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Do you know what I want to say? This game's community is one of the worst I've actually seen for a game. While the modders do good work, the actual community is elitist, and prevents free choice. I've picked this up from all the lurking around not only the forums but some of the fan's websites, and building tips. From first hand experience I've had lots of trouble settling in as a newbie, and I'm sure any other new people that even look at this community will be driven away. It is powered purely by nostalgia.
If you didn't like what you just read, please ignore it.
I've been waiting to say this for a long time now.
tl;dr stop comparing every bad robot to one of his.
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...are good guys and will be happy to help you out (Craaig, JoeBlo etc.).
N'awh, thanks :3
In a way I know what he means, it is a very daunting community to enter into, as it's obviously so competitive, however once you've broken through that barrier, most people are generally alright (':
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Let's just ban optimization completely, by calling it "against the spirit of realism". Then tournament results would be pointless because bots were never build to compete. I don't have problem with IRL or art bots, but let's not kid ourselves by claiming that the outcome means anything. If it does then half the entries will be shell spinners.
The only conversation left in showcase will be how nice the bot looks and what an awesome skin job that is. Which is why I stay in junkyard nowadays.
Also, this game cannot imitate realistic functions no matter how much house rules you put in, because the physics engine will not allow it. Whichever bot type that works best with this game's mechanics will still dominate.
Here's a quote from Naryar which I find relevant to this topic.
If we had a CLEAR definition of "IRL building" it would be SO MUCH EASIER to say what is IRL... for me IRL is "realistic, and could work in real life".
Oh and I am entering BoF for fun, yes, but my definition of "fun" in robotic combat is... *inhales deeply*
Crush the chassis of your enemies while laughing maniacally ! Rejoice at other people posting awed comments at how Bad Ass your bots are ! Climb on top of a pile of defeated opponents and rise your weapons towards the sky to look awesome ! Inspire sheer unbridled TERROR in your enemies by beating their bots senseless ! Make special taunting py's so your bot spams the ingame chat with trash talk ! This is robotic combat, damnit, and it's essense is FAST PACED, BRUTAL CONFLICT, as well as survival of the fittest ! Components flying everywhere ! SPARKS FOR THE SPARK GOD !
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let's not kid ourselves by claiming that the outcome means anything. If it does then half the entries will be shell spinners.
Half the entries to IRL tourneys are already shell spinners.
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If we have tournaments, people want to win. If people want to win, they push the rules.
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This is the only community where I don't see the best builders as MLG dimwits.
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I think this community is probably one of the most unique I've seen.
Why? Here is why.
1. The game is mostly about creativity and combat-efficiency which is two things that are rarely put together.
2. Such a wide variety of interests people have on these forums who come from different parts of the World From the USA to places like Australasia.
3. This is personally one of the most dedicated forums in the World who's people will be probably still play this in 10 years.
4. Wide Variety of AI packs.
5. Some of you people are awesome and bulid some Top Class and unique Robots in Both Stock and DSL in the (Oddly) World.
6. This IS the World stage for Robot Arena 2 now.
7. Small number of people here when compared to EA forums for example which equals == Less hassle
8. I feel like I can talk about Robot Combat easily here instead of people in real life saying `Its dead. like something that is not dead or childish like football.
So that is why.
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I meant Major League Gamers.
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2. Such a wide variety of interests people have on these forums who come from different parts of the World From the USA to places like Australasia.
We have a member named PwnBlo. He's australasian.
Edit: XD sorry... couldn't resist. I do like the points you make about the community though!
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So who agrees with what I said?
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This deserves a reply. What is so bad about our community?You claim there is no free choice and that the community is elitist. I don't really understand what you mean. You can build whatever you want, it's just that showcasing really bad bots (unless the look really cool) is generally not liked by the community because it makes it seem like they have no desire to improve, thus it seems like a waste of time for them to have a showcase. You also claim that this community will scare off any newcomers. This is clearly false, as the community has seen a recent increase in members.
This was NOTHING to do with my showcase. The "preventing free choice" started as SOON as item stats were released, and some were called outright "BETTER". You can't use things like the grog axe any more, which while oversized, is fun to use. What about the axe head? The disk? The goddamn samurai sword? Nowhere to be seen. Spinnerbots have plagued this game ever since they were discovered to be good, everything is some kind of copycat of another popular bot of a usually OVERUSED tple.
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Obviously, you're not even paying attention to building these days, because everything that you just said is wrong.
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tl;dr stop comparing every bad robot to one of his.
Also, this meme is just INSANELY PRETENTIOUS now. I can't be MYSELF any more without getting a strange look from someone in the room because of my past. I don't care if SFTW was crap, that was how many years ago?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxPgOdnGaWA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxPgOdnGaWA#)
I mean COME ON! Give it a break already! If I was anyone else I would have a whole load less trouble than I do now. It was funny for about a year, then the BBEANS AI pack was released, which I personally felt MOCKING (but I can get over it) and then the forum icons? REALLY?
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Hah, I would find it funny, not harrassing.
Your bot is a meme bro, in fact, it's not at all about the bot. It's about how epically cute and bad it was. I mean, it's BIG and it has... MOVING PARTS!
And ontopic (hey, this topic is about the community in review) I must say this is one of the weirdest communities. A lot of nice guys, but also some seriously social defect members (not calling names).
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This deserves a reply. What is so bad about our community?You claim there is no free choice and that the community is elitist. I don't really understand what you mean. You can build whatever you want, it's just that showcasing really bad bots (unless the look really cool) is generally not liked by the community because it makes it seem like they have no desire to improve, thus it seems like a waste of time for them to have a showcase. You also claim that this community will scare off any newcomers. This is clearly false, as the community has seen a recent increase in members.
This was NOTHING to do with my showcase. The "preventing free choice" started as SOON as item stats were released, and some were called outright "BETTER". You can't use things like the grog axe any more, which while oversized, is fun to use. What about the axe head? The disk? The goddamn samurai sword? Nowhere to be seen. Spinnerbots have plagued this game ever since they were discovered to be good, everything is some kind of copycat of another popular bot of a usually OVERUSED tple.
Look the World has changed in RA2 and you can't go back to it. And I still love using the SledgeHammers and The disk like a weird person once said. `Everything around you will always have a use but when the time is right.
But this is a different ball game now. Sure it may have the basic rules but the buliding style has changed and if you want to go back to the noob ages then you have to get everyone in your side which I'm sure will happen :mrgreen: (Sarcasm)
Just kidding about that. (Pure Sarcasm)
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Actually from what I have seen you spammed your own showcase with derogative comments because inf did what he does usually, and you have overreacted because he considered your bots subpar, and that's what they are compared to the average stock builder. Judging from this, I have many reasons to call you a drama queen.
Running a showcase is like trying to operate an zoo full of lions in no cages on a unicycle - you can do whatever the heck you can, and people will STILL tell you you're doing it wrong, and then when you set out to actually accept criticism like you tried from the beginning, people STILL tell you you're doing it wrong. I've ALWAYS called my robots bad, and I have trouble tolerating flamers. You're treating a self-confessed noob that only started building bots recently like he's a veteran. He isn't. Why should I even bother around here any more? It's clear that when someone new comes along, he's going to be attacked no matter HOW hard he tries. I should be treated like I'm NEW, not like I joined in 2007, because then people set their expectations WAY too high.
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It's clear that when someone new comes along, he's going to be attacked no matter HOW hard he tries.
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,6911.0.html (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,6911.0.html)
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,6369.0.html (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,6369.0.html)
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,6980.0.html (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,6980.0.html)
https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,8019.0.html (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php/topic,8019.0.html)
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It's clear that when someone new comes along, he's going to be attacked no matter HOW hard he tries.
Yes, you're completely correct. Nightcracker and Geice and were absolutely brutalized by us, so much so that... what? They're both only a few months into their tenure and they're both well-respected members who regularily contribute? When did this happen??
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Not saying I'm good or anything, but just an example of how it usually goes in my showcase:
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/11687tannedrubber.png)
What should I do with those last 26 kilos?
put more casters on the far ends so wedges slide up even easier.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/38691tannedrubber.png)
Very nice.
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Look if I were you I would come back with the SFTW meme under your belt and really prove that you are still a good bulider and everyone will get on your side and then YOU can change the trend of the game. So could get everyone to go back to the n00b ages.
PURE SARCASM
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It's clear that when someone new comes along, he's going to be attacked no matter HOW hard he tries.
Yes, you're completely correct. Nightcracker and Geice and were absolutely brutalized by us, so much so that... what? They're both only a few months into their tenure and they're both well-respected members who regularily contribute? When did this happen??
But why not me!?
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And ontopic (hey, this topic is about the community in review) I must say this is one of the weirdest communities. A lot of nice guys, but also some seriously social defect members (not calling names).
That's gtm for you :P
Dude, lrn2takeajoke
Actually from what I have seen you spammed your own showcase with derogative comments because inf did what he does usually, and you have overreacted because he considered your bots subpar, and that's what they are compared to the average stock builder. Judging from this, I have many reasons to call you a drama queen.
Running a showcase is like trying to operate an zoo full of lions in no cages on a unicycle - you can do whatever the heck you can, and people will STILL tell you you're doing it wrong, and then when you set out to actually accept criticism like you tried from the beginning, people STILL tell you you're doing it wrong. I've ALWAYS called my robots bad, and I have trouble tolerating flamers. You're treating a self-confessed noob that only started building bots recently like he's a veteran. He isn't. Why should I even bother around here any more? It's clear that when someone new comes along, he's going to be attacked no matter HOW hard he tries. I should be treated like I'm NEW, not like I joined in 2007, because then people set their expectations WAY too high.
ugh
Another little kid who doesn't know the internet.
Grow up and learn to take criticism.
Either get better or use your bots mainly as a joke.
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Either get better or use your bots mainly as a joke.
This line I have a problem with. If I ever do that, will I be remembered for that? No! I will be remembered for the worst I've already done as of now. There's no second chances, are there? I've already used my first under razer. I'd try if it would make ANY difference.
-Each member gets ONLY ONE showcase per game mod.
Oh.
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Look if I were you I would come back with the SFTW meme under your belt and really prove that you are still a good bulider and everyone will get on your side and then YOU can change the trend of the game. So could get everyone to go back to the n00b ages.
You really should do this if you want people to stop annoying you.
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making new accounts doesn't give you another chance if you claim you are the same person.
If you get better, people will like your bots and want you to build more. You will always have the meme after you, which i'd find a good thing if i were you.
Stop taking everything so seriously.
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Either get better or use your bots mainly as a joke.
This line I have a problem with. If I ever do that, will I be remembered for that? No!
Well we remember J for his bots.
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Look if I were you I would come back with the SFTW meme under your belt and really prove that you are still a good bulider and everyone will get on your side and then YOU can change the trend of the game. So could get everyone to go back to the n00b ages.
You really should do this if you want people to stop annoying you.
Bolded area is so unlikely it's funny.
Anyway, how would I "Come Back"? Only one account per player.
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Either get better or use your bots mainly as a joke.
This line I have a problem with. If I ever do that, will I be remembered for that? No!
Well we remember J for his bots.
I remember him for his Emergencyphobia, personally :approve:
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Look if I were you I would come back with the SFTW meme under your belt and really prove that you are still a good bulider and everyone will get on your side and then YOU can change the trend of the game. So could get everyone to go back to the n00b ages.
You really should do this if you want people to stop annoying you.
Bolded area is so unlikely it's funny.
Anyway, how would I "Come Back"? Only one account per player.
WHo knows what the future holds........................................................................
Seriously there re people who are leading the style of the game now.
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Look if I were you I would come back with the SFTW meme under your belt and really prove that you are still a good bulider and everyone will get on your side and then YOU can change the trend of the game. So could get everyone to go back to the n00b ages.
You really should do this if you want people to stop annoying you.
Bolded area is so unlikely it's funny.
Anyway, how would I "Come Back"? Only one account per player.
lolsaystheguywith2accountsonhereandanotheronesomewhere
But that is unlikely, RPJK doesn't have the best experience here.
That said, you never know what your bots can do...
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lolsaystheguywith2accountsonhereandanotheronesomewhere
firestorm was disabled
Anyway, I'd only do this if my showcase was deleted so I could try again or something. If anyone with the sufficient powers can do this, please do it.
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gee attention whore
Don't delete your showcase, just post whatever you want.
Each person only get's one for each section.
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I know I am not a good bulider but I am going to try and I have made a try to do by end of year list like:
A Wammer/VS hybrid
36HS
Bulid a MW clamp etc
So set yourself goals and do them.
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gee attention whore
Don't delete your showcase, just post whatever you want.
Each person only get's one for each section.
Why am I an attention whore? If you actually read my whole showcase from cover to cover, you will realize that a lot of crazy stuff has happened there. GEE, LET'S JUST CARRY OVER FROM WHERE WE LEFT OFF SHALL WE. Why can't I just put that behind me and try again? I've taken all the ideas from that thread onboard.
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gee attention whore
Don't delete your showcase, just post whatever you want.
Each person only get's one for each section.
Why am I an attention whore? If you actually read my whole showcase from cover to cover, you will realize that a lot of crazy stuff has happened there. GEE, LET'S JUST CARRY OVER FROM WHERE WE LEFT OFF SHALL WE. Why can't I just put that behind me and try again? I've taken all the ideas from that thread onboard.
Asking for a new showcase to get more attention?
And you were the reason most of the crazy stuff happened so do not blame us.
Just continue to post normally and it wont be that much of a drama thread if you can control it.
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Asking for a new showcase to get more attention?
And you were the reason most of the crazy stuff happened so do not blame us.
Just continue to post normally and it wont be that much of a drama thread if you can control it.
>implying that I blamed anyone
Anyway, I don't want attention, I want a clean thread.
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Hey! You can edit your own showcase. Edit out everything you want out and be a happy man (or woman).
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Hey! You can edit your own showcase. Edit out everything you want out and be a happy man (or woman).
Burned by a nocturnal biscuit =P
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This was NOTHING to do with my showcase. The "preventing free choice" started as SOON as item stats were released, and some were called outright "BETTER". You can't use things like the grog axe any more, which while oversized, is fun to use. What about the axe head? The disk? The goddamn samurai sword? Nowhere to be seen. Spinnerbots have plagued this game ever since they were discovered to be good, everything is some kind of copycat of another popular bot of a usually OVERUSED tple.
Yes, item stats were released. They clearly showed some components were better than others. This meant that when somebody showcases a bot that they want to be combat effective, people are going to recommend they use efficient components. If they clearly say that the intent of the bot is to look cool, then people won't criticize their use of inefficient components but instead make comments on its looks. Also, the reason many of those components aren't used AS MUCH (they are definitely still in use) is because RA2 is a game of robot combat, and people who insist on using bots with inefficient components are going to be beaten in tournaments. Thus through a form of natural selection, the most ineffective bots are weeded out. As a community increases its knowledge regarding a game that focuses on combat, you can bet there will be certain strategies that prove to be the most successful, hence the success of spinners and popups. However, the aforementioned bot types are far from being without innovation, for example the one-wheeled HS was recently brought into the arena and has proven to be a worthy threat.
Running a showcase is like trying to operate an zoo full of lions in no cages on a unicycle - you can do whatever the heck you can, and people will STILL tell you you're doing it wrong, and then when you set out to actually accept criticism like you tried from the beginning, people STILL tell you you're doing it wrong. I've ALWAYS called my robots bad, and I have trouble tolerating flamers. You're treating a self-confessed noob that only started building bots recently like he's a veteran. He isn't. Why should I even bother around here any more? It's clear that when someone new comes along, he's going to be attacked no matter HOW hard he tries. I should be treated like I'm NEW, not like I joined in 2007, because then people set their expectations WAY too high.
You claim that people's bots in showcases are always criticized no matter what. Just take a look at the showcases of Pwn, Sage, Scrap, Inf, Geice, NC, NFX, Click, R0B0, Naryar, 123STW, Urjak (:P), etc. All of those builders have achieved a high degree of bot building, and thus there bots are rarely criticized. Instead, some might point out one or two things that could be tweaked, and probably praise the bots. Those who are not at a high level of bot building won't have their bots insulted and flamed as long as they are showing a willingness to improve, whether it be in terms of aesthetics or combat effectiveness. I have said this several times, and will say it again: If someone builds bad bots (either ugly when they were intended to look cool or weak when they were intended to be good fighters) and shows no willingness to improve, then they are simply wasting space on this forum because: A. The bot builder is currently building bots that no one will enjoy looking at, and B. The bot builder is unwilling to improve so anything another member posts in term of help will be ignored. The combination of those two things makes that particular members showcase a waste of time. As can be seen in many showcases, as long a member is willing to improve, they will not be insulted or harshly criticized.
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What your calling "attacking" is actually us trying to help you make better bots. It's pretty much assumed that when you post a bot, you want advice on how to improve it and that's what everybody has been trying to do. If you said "here are my bots i dont want to make any improvements", no one would comment on how to improve them, but you probably wouldn't get any comments anyway due to how mediocre they are. Honestly the way you build I think your better suited for DSL because stock is stock and your not going to change sh** about it moaning about how them components are imbalanced. Unless your building for looks, you want your bot to win against other bots (I do at least). Sure you can do what you want, but 3 irons will always be better than a sledge, smaller chassis's are better than huge ones, N12s are inefficient and you just need to accept what stock is.
but heck, if you like your bots, don't change them, but your not going to win any tournaments with them.
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Like I said in a different thread, I feel that with me not building bots anymore, I feel insignifigant to the community.
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Then build some bots
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I feel fairly motivated. Sometimes I just dig out DSL and experiment with just about any design. That's how I've created my most innovative and successful bots. Tournaments are a major drive for me, too.
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I like hosting tournaments. I like learning how to do GMF stuff. I like beating SM.
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Then build some bots
He can't.
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I don't have RA2 anymore.
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I don't have RA2 anymore.
SAGE IS HERE FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE.
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I don't have RA2 anymore.
Takes about 5 minutes bro
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I'm on a Mac.
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I'm on a Mac.
Damnit.
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So is Sage. No clue how but it's possible (hint: pm him)
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I'm getting a PC in a couple of days.
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I'M SO PROUD OF YOU
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It's pretty simple actually... you just download the .iso of windows XP with your favorite mac torrent client, mount it to a DVD, start an application called BOOTCAMP to partition your hard drive and use the DVD as the windows install disc. Once windows is installed on it, you basically have mac and windows on the same computer. just hit "option" to choose between them when the computer starts up. It was a little more difficult for me cause i used the windows 7 release client and had to crack it after i installed it, but yea windows xp should work.
or just buy a pc.