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Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: ianh05 on April 02, 2013, 02:56:33 PM

Title: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 02, 2013, 02:56:33 PM
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/90201loldsl.jpg)


sums up the forum right now.
Title: Re: need more builders!
Post by: ty4er on April 02, 2013, 02:58:28 PM
fixed title

stock has been around for quite a while longer than dsl, plus dsl3 just came out so of course its going to be quite active in those sections.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 02, 2013, 03:01:54 PM
It's been this way for awhile sadly, most stock builders have vanished and DSL is more appealing to most for different reasons (IRL, more components, easier to build etc.).
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ty4er on April 02, 2013, 03:04:31 PM
It's been this way for awhile sadly, most stock builders have vanished and DSL is more appealing to most for different reasons (IRL, more components, easier to build etc.).
i dont see why you're complaining as a fair few stock-only builders have just returned. sure we need more builders but now seems to be a fairly good time for stock, compared to earlier years

Title: Poll: What do you build?
Post by: ianh05 on April 02, 2013, 03:08:06 PM
Poll added  :dumb)
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 02, 2013, 03:14:53 PM
Voted.
Yeah, imagine if these builders didn't come back...  :confused:
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: cephalopod on April 02, 2013, 03:21:21 PM
If those builders hadn't come back, stock would be in a bad way. But I'd say recently it's in the best state it has been for a long time, the only reason there's so much DSL attention is DSL3 Beta was released just 24 hours ago.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 02, 2013, 03:30:22 PM
DSL showcases:
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/94428DSL.jpg)


Stock showcases:
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/18300Stock.jpg)
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Jonzu95 on April 02, 2013, 03:32:22 PM
Calm down Ian. Stock isn't dying.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 02, 2013, 03:36:02 PM
You must understand that, it's not the DSL taking away people from stock, it's just stock losing people, that go away to do something else!
My showcase would be a furor some years ago with all this new innovation bots, but now no matter what I built, not much people seems to care, or they just check it and don't post, dunno...
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Wolfsbane on April 02, 2013, 03:38:58 PM
I still build mostly stock.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 02, 2013, 03:43:05 PM
The botexchange is also telling. DSL HW exchange has 404 bots compared to stock HW exchange which has 207.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 02, 2013, 03:54:15 PM
The botexchange is also telling. DSL HW exchange has 404 bots compared to stock HW exchange which has 207.
This is not an objective proof at all.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: AlexGRFan97 on April 02, 2013, 04:05:55 PM
Oh come on now this is just grasping at straws. If the Stock robots from Atari's old BotExchange were uploaded, there would be 500+ stock HWs.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: cephalopod on April 02, 2013, 04:07:21 PM
^the man has a point.
Besides I for one know I don't upload all my bots to the exchange, and I hear Venko has many many unseen designs that definitely haven't made it to the exhange.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 02, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
It's been around longer and still "Dying" because it's producing much less now than back then (currently producing much less then DSL). Not all bots are uploaded for both.

DSL has more recent topics (it's been like this for some time now), more posts in showcases (click the little dots to max out all showcase numbers on the first page of both stock and DSL), more bots on the exchange and more tournament participation.

You can't deny stock is far less popular and stock needs a boost. Perhaps it's due to no more Starcore AI? Maybe INFAI will give it a boost?
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: cephalopod on April 02, 2013, 04:17:03 PM
Stock is less popular I would say, but the stock activity recently has been hugely boosted than, say, from a year ago. It's nothing to worry about. DSL has been dominant for as long as I've been here.
Title: Re: need more builders that DONT do IRL DSL!
Post by: Mr. AS on April 02, 2013, 04:19:22 PM
fixed title
yea ok i fixed it again.

what we need is for this irl fad to calm down, im fine with some irl bots being built, but OH MY ~ALLAH~ people, this is out-of-hand.

just as a reference, here are the 17 threads that ian posted... BUT with primarily or exclusively IRL showcases highlighted in YELLOW

(http://i.imgur.com/3AZ3nOX.png)

the entire IRL bandwagon is drifting attention away from the ORIGINAL GAME over to "hurr who can make the best skin in paint.net/photoshop/ETC", bar those flippermaker-spammed bots.

Perhaps it's due to no more Starcore AI? Maybe INFAI will give it a boost?
ASAI anyone? i might be able to get the move on building more bots for the teams, ideas are starting to come in for me again.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 02, 2013, 04:19:41 PM
^the man has a point.
Besides I for one know I don't upload all my bots to the exchange, and I hear Venko has many many unseen designs that definitely haven't made it to the exhange.
There are some different reasons why I don't post or upload all of my bots : too good, too crapy, nothing special, just a clone, not enough time, being lazy to make a splash and so...
Sometimes the splash takes me more time than the bot itself, and I just start a new bot instead of posting.
Title: Re: need more builders that DONT do IRL DSL!
Post by: ty4er on April 02, 2013, 04:25:00 PM
fixed title
yea ok i fixed it again.

what we need is for this irl fad to calm down, im fine with some irl bots being built, but GOD people, this is out-of-hand.

just as a reference, here are the 17 images that ian posted... BUT with primarily or exclusively IRL showcases highlighted in YELLOW

(http://i.imgur.com/3AZ3nOX.png)

the entire IRL bandwagon is drifting attention away from the ORIGINAL GAME over to "hurr who can make the best skin in paint.net/photoshop/ETC", bar those flippermaker-spammed bots.

Perhaps it's due to no more Starcore AI? Maybe INFAI will give it a boost?
ASAI anyone? i might be able to get the move on building more bots for the teams, ideas are starting to come in for me again.
just saying, i've built wayy more standard bots than irl. and i think everyone knows i cant skin for crap  :dumb)

dsl standard will pretty much be dead after this though. there will still be a few builders but a lot less than for stock.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Thyrus on April 02, 2013, 04:25:20 PM
What MAs says is dumb. This game was supposed to be about IRL building in the first line. Look at the stock bots. look why this game has been made in the first place. it was done in the time when robot wars and battlebots were still on tv. it was made to have a game for your own creations. none of the developers had 36 macespinners and popups in mind when they did it.

also why the heck would you fore a building style to stop? did I ever say "stop building DSL realism" or "don`t waste your time on  stock standart building"?
Title: Re: need more builders that DONT do IRL DSL!
Post by: 090901 on April 02, 2013, 04:36:11 PM
yea ok i fixed it again.

what we need is for this irl fad to calm down, im fine with some irl bots being built, but OH MY ~ALLAH~ people, this is out-of-hand.

just as a reference, here are the 17 threads that ian posted... BUT with primarily or exclusively IRL showcases highlighted in YELLOW

(http://i.imgur.com/3AZ3nOX.png)

the entire IRL bandwagon is drifting attention away from the ORIGINAL GAME over to "hurr who can make the best skin in paint.net/photoshop/ETC", bar those flippermaker-spammed bots.


Dude does it really matter that much to you how people build? The game has been around for 10 years, we are lucky to have people still build in it. It's a game, let people enjoy it the way they want to.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 02, 2013, 04:36:24 PM
Perhaps it's due to no more Starcore AI? Maybe INFAI will give it a boost?
There is a reason why I'm stuck all since I started to build with the Starcore pack, it's not the toughest, but with the most variety. Inf AI is more a very-effective-old-school-bots oriented. But where we can find someone that will make a very variable/innovative/freak but effective at the same time builder to make an AI pack like Starcore? So we are stuck for now with what we have.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Mr. AS on April 02, 2013, 05:33:50 PM
just saying, i've built wayy more standard bots than irl. and i think everyone knows i cant skin for crap  :dumb)

dsl standard will pretty much be dead after this though. there will still be a few builders but a lot less than for stock.
*just as a reference, here are the 17 threads that ian posted... BUT with primarily or exclusively IRL showcases (as of late) highlighted in YELLOW
pardon me :dumb)

MAs
Mas, i could get used to this.

This game was supposed to be about IRL building in the first line. Look at the stock bots. look why this game has been made in the first place. it was done in the time when robot wars and battlebots were still on tv. it was made to have a game for your own creations. none of the developers had 36 macespinners and popups in mind when they did it.
did the developers of RA2 do anything when 36HS or popups were on the rise back on the old forum, back when atari still cared? they didnt do anything. if they truly did care the slightest bit on how the building experience should be they would have had actual quality bugtesting instead of shipping it off with oh so many glitches and building some "realistic" bots to cover it up.

Quote
also why the heck would you fore a building style to stop? did I ever say "stop building DSL realism" or "don`t waste your time on  stock standart building"?
except i did not say to stop entirely, just saying how irl has practically overtaken the showcases like some sort of rampant tumor.

It's a game, let people enjoy it the way they want to.
i want to play stock. too bad theres hardly anyone to play stock with anymore.
on the other hand IRL has at least half the building populous to compete (or not since its a skinning competition) with.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Thyrus on April 02, 2013, 05:51:58 PM
your argument doesnt make sense. why would a developer come in and say: "stop! that's not what I had in mind when i created the game. Do what I wanted to see!"
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Wolfsbane on April 02, 2013, 05:54:42 PM
We can practice our building for BBEANS7.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Scrap Daddy on April 02, 2013, 06:49:31 PM
The way I see it, IRL is the way the game was supposed to be played. I've always had a fascination with the replicas and the only way to fairly fight them is with IRL style bots. DSL has just devolved into stock with flashier parts, but not nearly as fun, and the main reason I don't play it anymore. I've always wanted to build actual fighting robots without being held back by the cost and IRL is as good as it gets aside from using a CAD program(but fighting them is way more fun then looking at them). I'm using ideas that I would actually want to build in real life instead of thinking how I am going to get as many razors as possible or creating the best bottom protection; if I want that bullsh**, I'll go play stock.

As far as stock goes, you are talking a totally different animal. For me at least, the time building a stock bot is at least twice as much as DSL or IRL(including the skin), due to all the snapper loading and other glitches that are involved. Even then, time can be wasted when you get a bot that havoks and is completely unusable. Coming up with ideas with stock is harder too since there are so few usable components.

Really I don't even understand what you think these thread is going to accomplish; it's not going to inspire people to start building. I build stock when I have a good idea, even then that idea may take months to form into an actual killing machine. I can't force myselff to play stock, I absolutely need inspiration first.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Virus Bomb on April 02, 2013, 07:04:45 PM
Outside of the how the game was meant to be played in stuff Scrap hit it right on the head for me. Outside of real life stuff the main reason I barely play stock now is because I pretty much have no good ideas, and IRL in DSL way more fun for me than regular DSL building. Also IRL in stock is pointless IMO.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: infiniteinertia on April 02, 2013, 07:06:22 PM
People are building less stock because fewer builders have learned how to properly build in recent years.....and a lot of builders have left.....simple as that
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Merrick on April 02, 2013, 07:09:33 PM
I don't build very much stock purely because I don't really enjoy it.

I mean, it's a game, the whole point is to enjoy yourself. If I'm not enjoying myself while building, what's the point? I'm not going to force myself to build robots just because the forum doesn't have enough.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: MassimoV on April 02, 2013, 07:44:43 PM
Man y'all take this way too seriously. It's a friggin' video game. Build what you want, it's a hobby/recreation.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: RedSawn on April 03, 2013, 08:29:38 PM
I wouldn't say I am dominantly DSL IRL, it's just in the last while I've had to build IRL (Badnik's AI pack I failed to get a team ready for, RA2 Olympics, Battlebots 6) But I digress.

There's two problems plaguing stock: The inflexibility of the metagame (Only select weapons are of any use, use shiny wheels, snapper load Ztek HP spinners in almost all cases, etc) and the fact stock itself has not changed since it's creation 10 years ago (Naturally, but there could of been balance patches, new standardised, non-cheat components, etc). Eventually we're going to run out of possibilities. And that I believe we are, if we haven't already.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: 123savethewhales on April 03, 2013, 09:04:38 PM
Stock just doesn't interest me.  I build a few popups, HSes, and FSnSes, and I ran out of stuff I want to do with it.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: RpJk on April 04, 2013, 02:45:18 AM
To me the game just got boring and I cant be arsed playing plus I've been playing so many other games recently like Luigis mansion 2, virtues last reward, Metal gear solid 2 etc.

The only time I will play RA2 again is if there is some big Replica pack out but apart from that the fun is lost to the point in which its hard to play for few minutes.

So in short the fun of Stock is gone.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 04, 2013, 11:39:17 AM
What! 9 people build stock only! Where, show them to me!
Stock is not "played out" yet, look at my posted "innovations/new bot types" and these, that I'm about to release.
As I told before, some people just don't have an imagination.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: RedSawn on April 04, 2013, 05:13:19 PM
No imagination? This is true.

But do you atleast accept that any creativity is hampered by by the fact that 50% of the components available are effectively useless in almost all situations? (Redbird, powered steering, axles, all wheels except shinies and rubber wheels, all weapons except razor, iron, mace and perhaps axe heads, pointy tip, single sided pick and 30cm pole spike, square extenders, T, Y and angle connectors, forklift arm, ballast might as well be, all actual armor options with exception to plastic for sub-LWs)

Quote from: http://beetlebros.gametechmods.com/ra2stats.htm
So which weapons are the best? The "Big Three" in standard stock building are iron spikes, maces, and razor tips. At least 95% of all bots you will see use these three exclusively.

When you realize how people must conform to a very specific ideal to build anything combat effective in stock, you may appreciate how much more broad the options in DSL are, and thus why people play it more. It's true that in some regards DSL2 was similar (Hypno wheels are abundant for instance) but unlike stock there is an active and universally accepted movement to change things, called DSL3.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 04, 2013, 05:44:59 PM
New designs don't need new weapons.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Trovaner on April 04, 2013, 06:14:16 PM
A component's shape and ease of use also influences its effectiveness in a design. For this reason, you see spike strips, blades, battle axes, and mower blades used for protection. The components that you listing are merely guidelines that are based solely on HP and damage. You would be hard pressed not to use any of those components but people should not be restricting themselves to them when a design could work better with different ones.

Progress is being made on DSL but it will always have some of the same issues as stock.

Personally, I don't care which version of the game people choose to play. I enjoy playing stock more but DSL is not without its own merits.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: RedSawn on April 04, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
It is true new designs don't need new weapons, but it'd also help if you can distinguish one design from another. How many times can you snapper load however many Ztek HPs with tribars with irons or maces and call it a new HS? Is it a new design just because you knocked one pixel of chassis space off but could still stack the same old setup? I realize other classes are a lot less monotonous, but those too boil down to the same or similar vices.

Perhaps I just have disdain for stock. I don't want to sit around all day trying to bend the laws of physics to make something remotely competitive. It would explain why I've hovered at SC2, SC3 level for 3, 4 years.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 04, 2013, 06:59:57 PM
One solution, is if we force the stock back to inefficient noobot levels.
This will bring the never-used-exotic-components back in the game, but I'm agree with Trov, that some of them just have a different use now (for protection), and I like that.
But however I'm not offering this, I'm happy with what is stock now (exept the 140 extenders  :realmad( and the 0910910190 uberstack  :realmad( , I mean, the earth spins around for years without them, BBEANS, Starcore AI).
How many times can you snapper load however many Ztek HPs with tribars with irons or maces and call it a new HS? Is it a new design just because you knocked one pixel of chassis space off but could still stack the same old setup?
I have at least 3 very new setups for HSs, but they went so good, so I put them in the secret folder and no showcasing for now, I have something similar with a popup setup too. But I just assume, that there are not much people like me around to innovate.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 04, 2013, 07:13:32 PM
DSL shell spinners all look the same too, so do other DSL bot types and many DSL components aren't used in tournaments etc. I just think IRL and the standard DSL realistic building factor are mostly attracting people who don't want to be bothered learning stock glitches.

Stock seems like it lacks designs because:

1. Click and FB aren't around much at all to showcase new designs.
2. Venko likes keeping his best/most unique bots a secret.
3. No major stock AI pack has been released in years!
4. A lot more innovators have slowed down or ceased posting (such as Sage).

Perhaps we need a gallery of inspiration, where people can post concepts and we could also post innovative designs from the past.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Merrick on April 04, 2013, 07:17:25 PM
I'm also going to be put off stock if people keep going on about it so much that I almost feel forced/obliged to start purely for the sake of the forum...
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 04, 2013, 07:24:12 PM
I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything they don't want to, games are meant to be fun however they can also be challenging and stock has a high learning curve that when you stick to it you feel more accomplished when you create something great.

You guys could make these stock tournaments:

1. Noob wars.
2. IRL stock.
3. Random component list (from a hat) type tournaments.
4. Stock replica wars.

Then you don't need to learn glitches and such (except with #3) and more parts could get used.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 04, 2013, 07:33:08 PM
DSL shell spinners all look the same too, so do other DSL bot types and many DSL components aren't used in tournaments etc. I just think IRL and the standard DSL realistic building factor are mostly attracting people who don't want to be bothered learning stock glitches.
QFT, some people just can't keep up with the hardness of the glitches.

Stock seems like it lacks designs because:

1. Click and FB aren't around much at all to showcase new designs.
True.
2. Venko likes keeping his best/most unique bots a secret.
My apology for this suxy act.
3. No major stock AI pack has been released in years!
True.
4. A lot more innovators have slowed down or ceased posting (such as Sage).
True.

Perhaps we need a gallery of inspiration, where people can post concepts and we could also post innovative designs from the past.
[boasting]Or they can just go check my showcase.[/boasting] :mrgreen:
I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything they don't want to, games are meant to be fun however they can also be challenging and stock has a high learning curve that when you stick to it you feel more accomplished when you create something great.

You guys could make these stock tournaments:

1. Noob wars. good idea
2. IRL stock. this is a rule for 1.
3. Random component list (from a hat) type tournaments. very excelent idea
4. Stock replica wars. bad idea

Then you don't need to learn glitches and such (except with #3) and more parts could get used.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Merrick on April 04, 2013, 07:38:11 PM
Wasn't Jonzu's Robot Wars 8 a stock replica tournament?
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Probably Rob on April 04, 2013, 07:42:18 PM
No, we were allowed to build our own robots. Some NPCs were replicas, though.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 04, 2013, 07:45:28 PM
Stock replica's aren't that bad Venko, there were plenty back in the day.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Jonzu95 on April 05, 2013, 12:26:22 AM
No, we were allowed to build our own robots. Some NPCs were replicas, though.
Actually Half of the bots were replicas, and the other half were Stock AI + GTM members.

And all these combined there were 128 entries.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: 090901 on April 05, 2013, 12:34:54 AM
reier we need noob warz 5
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Naryar on April 05, 2013, 12:44:16 AM
reier we need noob warz 5

yes

also DSL can be just as difficult as stock when you're stacking skirt hinges, and mostly all the stock glitches can be used in DSL standard.

There, I said it, stock isn't more difficult than DSL.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 05, 2013, 12:53:16 AM
reier we need noob warz 5

also DSL can be just as difficult as stock when you're stacking skirt hinges, and mostly all the stock glitches can be used in DSL standard.

Wait, what?
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Naryar on April 05, 2013, 12:55:10 AM
reier we need noob warz 5

also DSL can be just as difficult as stock when you're stacking skirt hinges, and mostly all the stock glitches can be used in DSL standard.

Wait, what?

Yes. Don't tell me you never snapper loaded in DSL ?
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 05, 2013, 01:08:16 AM
It's possible but not allowed in general, I made a drum years ago but because it wasn't realistic and past through an extender I had to remake it.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: J on April 05, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
Ian: Do you even Stock Build?
J: *Raises hand*
Yes, I Stock Build.
(Rarely, now-a-days, but I still do, so it counts)
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Naryar on April 05, 2013, 02:46:34 AM
It's possible but not allowed in general, I made a drum years ago but because it wasn't realistic and past through an extender I had to remake it.

Nobody ever banned glitch use from DSL, unless the result is unrealistic.

Snapper loading doesn't mean unrealistic bot.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 05, 2013, 03:39:41 AM
I don't see the point and have never seen any legal DSL bots use it.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Thyrus on April 05, 2013, 03:44:50 AM
Ian you really need to take the stick out of your butt. People tend to build realistic cause they want to have the vibe of the shows that brought them to this game rather than having something overeffective. just learn to deal with that and keep building what you want but stop mocking others
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 05, 2013, 03:46:05 AM
stick out my butt? mocking others? when did this get personal?
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Thyrus on April 05, 2013, 03:51:15 AM
it's just what I'm reading from you in this thread (and venko as well). saying people are to lazy to learn glitches and stuff. I guess I could learn it too but I just don't want to build stockystyle. never really have and never really will do
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 05, 2013, 03:59:22 AM
There are people that seem too lazy, the new builders who join. They build stock get constructive criticism and then leave to DSL.

People have built stock realistic too, even the game devs did. DSL took that part away from stock due to it having more components.

DSL was always meant to be more realistic, I want to know why some people have given up on the main competitive part of the game.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Naryar on April 05, 2013, 04:00:08 AM
I don't see the point and have never seen any legal DSL bots use it.

Then you obviously have no idea what effective DSL building is all about.

The point of snapper loading/eFFe/piston loading in DSL is to give you more tools to work with in the bot lab, and therefore more freedom, and therefore develop new designs. Nothing more. Nobody cares about the methods you use in botlab in DSL, as long as the result is good and realistic.



Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ty4er on April 05, 2013, 04:01:35 AM
I don't see the point and have never seen any legal DSL bots use it.
quite a few of my bots use it, even the irl ones
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Thyrus on April 05, 2013, 04:03:03 AM
I see your point. I`ve also seen some people get some harsh advice in theire showcases. I work some text out when I`m really awake
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 05, 2013, 04:08:06 AM

Link to snapper loaded DSL bots? I've always thought it was only used to stack components over/in each other like motors in batteries etc.

I think we should have a flow chart of stock AI progression for newbies, perhaps learning everything all at once and facing INF AI/Starcore v.4 is a bit much.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Thyrus on April 05, 2013, 04:17:15 AM
I guess that idea isn`t the worst. you learned stuff over the ages as well I guess
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ty4er on April 05, 2013, 04:18:28 AM
snapper loading and other glitches aswell
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: martymidget on April 05, 2013, 06:00:02 AM
I don't see the point and have never seen any legal DSL bots use it.
quite a few of my bots use it, even the irl ones

What this fine fellow said.

The main reason I built more DSL was that when I first joined all bot types were fair game- but since then it's contracted to only two or three at the top, similar to stock. I still build most of the lesser bot types though, jugglers and HS being my specialty.

If anything building a good IRL bot takes more planning than a standard DSL bot since I've been doing it for so long, and then stock is a step up. I only open stock if I have an idea that wouldn't be allowed by the shifty DSL rules, and then half the time I give up halfway through because I rarely have a setup in mind so it takes me hours...and I don't really want to spend that long building a bot unless it's UHW or something.

tl;dr I'm freaking lazy and bad at anything stock that isn't a popup.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Naryar on April 05, 2013, 06:36:19 AM
Besides, stock is dying ? Nonsense.

Look at these stats, that's 11 builders who play stock only, 11 who build both and 16 who build DSL.

That's 22 stock players and 27 DSL players, so the building community is around 50 people.

Which I suppose it's more like 30/40 because of showcase activity being not that important, even with not all builders showcasing.

Stock is not "dying" or anything like that, we merely are a small building community.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: infiniteinertia on April 05, 2013, 10:17:28 AM
Y'all are lame...it's not hard to be original in Stock....

but anyway...... IIAI v1.0 OFFICIAL is coming out soon at least...
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 05, 2013, 03:59:03 PM
Even the poll results are giving the middle finger to stock building  :rage
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: 123savethewhales on April 05, 2013, 04:24:20 PM
Stock takes like 3x the amount of time to build pretty much the same thing.

Unless you really want highly unrealistic bots like 36HS (which kinna functions like a FSS in DSL anyway), DSL is an easier platform to work with for the same results.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 05, 2013, 04:54:52 PM
@ Nary :
Don't You contradict with yourself?
...because the constant stacking, overlapping and the mad axle load chains is too much of a hassle...
VS
...There, I said it, stock isn't more difficult than DSL...
So they are both hard, but You still ran into DSL?
Also :
Stock takes like 3x the amount of time to build pretty much the same thing.

Unless you really want highly unrealistic bots like 36HS (which kinna functions like a FSS in DSL anyway), DSL is an easier platform to work with for the same results.

@ Thyrus :
You need to apology to Ianh, NOW!
Because :
-This was a nice thread until You showed up and started an unprovoked personal directed insults to him (and even included me too).
-What are You doing here in general, if You don't build stock and don't want to, and this is a "need stock builders" thread?
-You are a double standard hypocrite, You told us that "we are mocking people", but You didn't say anything when Inf posted this :
...People are building less stock because fewer builders have learned how to properly build in recent years...
...Y'all are lame...it's not hard to be original in Stock...
...I maintain my position..."if you cant build stock, your credibility is alot less because this is the original game."...
-Quit "reading" between the lines and posting insults based on wrong assumptions.
-Also, if I say that someone is lazy or don't have an imagination, and then I demonstrate the opposite with a hard work, then I have the moral rights to call that person this way.
-I'm tired of the arrogance of the "DSL-yesterday-registered-children-mafia", that gangs up on someone every time when he speaks about stock. Why all flame wars with me and Ianh involved, had a "DSL only" members involved mostly, if not at all?
-DON'T FEEL FREE to protect your precious DSL, when there is no need to.
-I'm not much into DSL and that's why I don't post opinions in the DSL threads. I'm expecting the same from the people that don't build stock.
So, I'm "showing You the door", PAL, GTFO  :Naryar
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: martymidget on April 05, 2013, 05:05:21 PM
Even the poll results are giving the middle finger to stock building  :rage

how is five less people a middle finger?

Please explain...
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Mr. AS on April 05, 2013, 05:08:26 PM
Even the poll results are giving the middle finger to stock building  :rage

how is five less people a middle finger?

Please explain...
(http://i.imgur.com/bvf0Qwi.png)



(http://i.imgur.com/UIrAs2W.png)
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: 123savethewhales on April 05, 2013, 05:14:04 PM
@ Nary :
Don't You contradict with yourself?
...because the constant stacking, overlapping and the mad axle load chains is too much of a hassle...
VS
...There, I said it, stock isn't more difficult than DSL...
So they are both hard, but You still ran into DSL?
Tedious and hard are two different things.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 05, 2013, 05:17:44 PM
Tedious and hard are two different things.
True, but he didn't use this word, so it's better if he explain his posts.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: 123savethewhales on April 05, 2013, 05:24:46 PM
Yes Stock is more tedious than DSL.  Stack batteries, snapper load drives into blue burst, axle load every weapon, gigantic anchors..... yeah not everyone's into doing stuff like that just to get to the same result.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: martymidget on April 05, 2013, 06:00:55 PM
Even the poll results are giving the middle finger to stock building  :rage

how is five less people a middle finger?

Please explain...
(http://i.imgur.com/bvf0Qwi.png)



(http://i.imgur.com/UIrAs2W.png)

How did I not see that  :rage

roasting in fire, bye
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Probably Rob on April 05, 2013, 08:04:27 PM
No, we were allowed to build our own robots. Some NPCs were replicas, though.
Actually Half of the bots were replicas, and the other half were Stock AI + GTM members.

And all these combined there were 128 entries.

That's what I said/meant.

"Half of the bots were replicas" is "Some NPCs were replicas"
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Naryar on April 06, 2013, 06:34:47 AM
123 pretty much nailed it : stock is tedious.

But DSL can be just as tedious as stock, with the constant wedge testing, occasional snapper load, chassis rebuild, The difference is that in DSL you're not contractually obliged to do these things as in stock.

Not to mention the vast improvement on variety and general practicality that is brought by 6x more components. Even if 75% of DSL components are totally useless (which is roughly the same ratio as stock).

No, DSL standard isn't intrinsically harder or easier than stock. Expectations are higher in stock, doesn't make it harder.  IRL DSL is easier, but generally more tedious than standard DSL.

Even the poll results are giving the middle finger to stock building  :rage

Way to be overdramatic.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: ianh05 on April 06, 2013, 06:58:41 AM
It was a joke... Mr.AS got it at least.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: RedSawn on April 06, 2013, 08:07:06 AM
123 pretty much nailed it : stock is tedious.

But DSL can be just as tedious as stock, with the constant wedge testing, occasional snapper load, chassis rebuild, The difference is that in DSL you're not contractually obliged to do these things as in stock.

Not to mention the vast improvement on variety and general practicality that is brought by 6x more components. Even if 75% of DSL components are totally useless (which is roughly the same ratio as stock).

No, DSL standard isn't intrinsically harder or easier than stock. Expectations are higher in stock, doesn't make it harder.  IRL DSL is easier, but generally more tedious than standard DSL

This is basically the culmination of the point I tried to make. Nice one guys. (Though I'm not sure about DSL not being easier since stock depends on a lot of counter-intuitive exercises that would be absent in standard or IRL DSL building)

Honestly I would build stock but I don't want to post anything second rate, and I don't want to build yet more popups and rammers (stuff that are hard not to be second rate at comparatively) and I end up not building stock at all.
Title: Re: need more stock builders!
Post by: Venko on April 07, 2013, 02:23:20 AM
Honestly I would build stock but I don't want to post anything second rate, and I don't want to build yet more popups and rammers (stuff that are hard not to be second rate at comparatively) and I end up not building stock at all.
Duder, no one wants from You to build top level bots always. Although, I didn't get the impression that You are a bad stock builder... Also, for an example, not all the DSL builders are top level too, but they still build, so...
You can always make other bot types than popups and rammers. And the popups are not a "second rate bots" IMO.