gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: Natef on August 01, 2011, 07:44:05 PM
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I was reading some of inf's posts, and started thinking, "have we lost our originality?"
It seems that many bots I've seen (of each type) seem to all look really similar.
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Because originality is overrated.
Only reason to build new things is if it provides new utility.
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I was reading some of inf's posts, and started thinking, "have we lost our originality?"
It seems that many bots I've seen (of each type) seem to all look really similar.
Definitely a thought. The worst aspect of RA2 for me is sitting in a Robot Lab with about a million different components, and wondering what to do that hasn't been done a million times already.
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I don't think so. It's just that as the game has progressed, more and more designs have been "found", so to speak, so the likelihood of finding a design that's different enough to be classed as original is slowly dwindling. But there are still designs out there.
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No, we have more morons. And I've been gone a long time. I'm back now to change that so delete this retarded thread.
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I mostly see this in stock (which I have given up on for the most part).
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Look at any design that someone else builds. If you have the ability to clone it, you have the ability to find something about it that you can improve. Like my Tag Team Tussle entry Thanatos combined the best parts (IMO) of DoA2 and Infection 4. And it did better than something totally original that I could have built in the lazy-person amount of time that I had. Originality doesn't have to be something completely new, just something different, that is an improvement.
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Originality hasn't been lost. As Somebody said, the reason it's less obvious now is because it's become mixed enough with effectiveness.
People find new things in RA2 every now and then, and I even managed to accidentally create a new bot type just by playing around with some torque reaction crawlers in DSL. People like Joe, Sage and Scrap do their best to find new things.
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People like Joe, Sage and Scrap do their best to find new things.
Its the only thing I do in this game after I figured out I just couldnt keep up with the tournament competition level.. :P
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People like Joe, Sage and Scrap do their best to find new things.
Its the only thing I do in this game after I figured out I just couldnt keep up with the tournament competition level.. :P
:laughing
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I've been feeling that the game has too many DEATH SPINNERS and not enough bots using other weapons. It saddens me.
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Thats why I liked BOTM.. originally wasn't killed off by the first generic spinner or popup..
That was until the Giraffe came along..
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Thats why I liked BOTM.. originally wasn't killed off by the first generic spinner or popup..
That was until the Giraffe came along..
I laughed when I saw him.
He's just epic.
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im Not Original :(
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Meh, depends.
Usually i hope i am original but i haven't been lurking enough to know if it's a klone or whatever :D
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Pretty much ever bot I posted in my showcase has been labeled "(somewhat) original" or "never seen it like that".
Maybe we should stare less at pictures from old bots and just create stuff?
:beer:
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Just building stuff that ISN'T a HS is original enough for me.
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great that people seem to start thinking about stuff like this when a veteran return. I don`t know about you other guys but I don`t see something like the loss of originality. a reason for this could be that I mostly few the showcases of DSC, NFX, SD, 123 Click and JB.
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I feel the same. The more efficient the bots get, the more similar they become. It's just a natural side effect.
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@Nerdbomb: Pretty much, considering if you want your bot to be "successful", its usually going to end up looking similar to something else. Like how Derp Patrol ended up being a weird Crazy Gadget.
That was until the Giraffe came along..
For the record, the Giraffe is somewhat of an homage to Venko.
Plus, it was the most original bot of that BOTM.
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My thoughts
-The designs are there. We just need to find them.
-Everyone's too worried about efficiency to discover new designs which, over time, could become killers.
-On the BOTM aspect - JB you mentioned stuff not being killed off by a generic spinner/popup - I think the Giraffe votes were like a backlash to the genericness of almost every other entry (besides Firecracker, which almost won anyway, hence proving most people wanted to vote away from the generic HS)
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I don't think there's a loss of originality. Last time I checked, there wasn't very many Enigma juggler's, (yes it's trade mark'd now) Or even, jugglers mixed with pop-ups.
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I don't think there's a loss of originality. Last time I checked, there wasn't very many Enigma juggler's, (yes it's trade mark'd now) Or even, jugglers mixed with pop-ups.
There's one in NAR AI if you really want to know.
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I don't think there's a loss of originality. Last time I checked, there wasn't very many Enigma juggler's, (yes it's trade mark'd now) Or even, jugglers mixed with pop-ups.
There's one in NAR AI if you really want to know.
:p
There goes me trying to be original...
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I'm original!
*builds something original*
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Guys, I know the solution to this.
Get drunk, andCombine 2 or more completely different bot types, then do your best to maximize its potential.
Were bound to find something awesome at some point.
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Talk to Sage.. he is the king of making kickass hybrids
I still love his VS / Juggler Hybrid..
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Combine 2 or more completely different bot types, then do your best to maximize its potential.
SHHHHHHHHHH
You're not supposed to spread my secret. >.<
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Try and combine as many bot types as possible in a HW ;P
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I want to try and make hybrids like Side Hammer/VS and something like Clickbeetle's the Ultimate Sacrifce but make it a Wammer instead of a popup but There is a problem. I don't know where to start. So that is why I bulid Generic Designs.
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I try to maximize the effectiveness of my previous designs, and try to break new ground in the FSS category. Other than that and total cloning, I don't care much about originality.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z06zMkDbNXA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z06zMkDbNXA#)
There we are, originality is not gone.
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Eventually. Hi Stag!!! I like the super flying kamikaze cube in the video.
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I think I showed a picture of that bot somewhere before, I think everyone ignored it though. Thats old footage though so maybe I uploaded a video.
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Ok back on topic I am trying to make an original robot but I am doing it from point A to point B for an example below here:
A. A basic HW Brick Crawler-B. Change Discs to Wheels-C. Put motors on front Wheels and attach them to servos-D. Add two axes at top
Kind of like that if you catch my drift.
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Ok back on topic I am trying to make an original robot but I am doing it from point A to point B for an example below here:
A. A basic HW Brick Crawler-B. Change Discs to Wheels-C. Put motors on front Wheels and attach them to servos-D. Add two axes at top
Kind of like that if you catch my drift.
A- Done already
B- Would suck
C- Doesn't work, Mr Halitosis (Reier) did that
D- Wouldn't change anything major.
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Ok back on topic I am trying to make an original robot but I am doing it from point A to point B for an example below here:
A. A basic HW Brick Crawler-B. Change Discs to Wheels-C. Put motors on front Wheels and attach them to servos-D. Add two axes at top
Kind of like that if you catch my drift.
A- Done already
B- Would suck
C- Doesn't work, Mr Halitosis (Reier) did that
D- Wouldn't change anything major.
It was an EXAMPLE.
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I'm going to repeat it 100 times but it isn't hard at all to make an original robot in both stock and DSL. So no, originality isn't dead.
But "originality" isn't EVERYTHING.
What is a bit more hard is to make it original and interesting(possibly includng cool looks), and even harder is to make it original, interesting, and good in combat.
Look at the servo crawler with chained axles on Stag's video. Sure I have never seen such a design, so it can even be called a new robot type. But apart from that, what else ? It's big, looks like a flapping fish on the ground (aka isn't especially cool), is useless in combat and wastes a lot of weight on a very slow drive.
Now for the other more classical crawler... it's original because it uses a very seldomly seen turning system (see Team Faggot) with classic crawler drive. But it isn't especially good at combat.
The best is probably the piston flier. It's cool, rather original, fun to drive, and much more dangerous than the other ones. Though it's still probably very difficult to drive and it has it's drawbacks, notably that being inverted means death. Nevertheless, this can't be called a killer design.
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Really, what makes a robot interesting to me is the skin.
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Really, what makes a robot interesting to me is the skin.
Really? Ok then, i guess...
Nar's made a good point IMO.
Personally, I just build what comes to my mind though XD
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Thread cleaned.. Stay on topic please..
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To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.
-William Blake
I think most people who complain about the lack of originality just fail to see the brilliance in the subtle changes. So the most recent example, when Urjak put that firestorm flipper on, that's a big leap for me. The whole chassis shape and connection points has to be reinvented. But most people just don't get it and instead complain about the silly collision mech vs visual mesh.
To me, anyone can make something new and useless. It is only when what's new actually has a purpose, be it look or function, that the human thoughts involved actually have meanings.
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But most people just don't get it and instead complain about the silly collision mech vs visual mesh.
I'm going to take that as a thinly veiled shot at what you perceive to be my understanding of building.
Don't for a second think that I don't believe that what Urjak has done is absolutely brilliant. It is. There are no two ways about it. Just don't try to tell me it's realistic.
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It's "DSL Realistic", which has a few realistic elements but not fully "IRL Realistic". It's sorta like watching a sci fi movie, and deciding rather or not an explosion in space should have sound effects. At least for me, that's how the transition from DSL Realism to IRL Realism feels like: Realism at the cost of all the bangs.
I like DSL Realism because it retains all the bangs from the physics engine without the black hole singularity from stack.
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How about we rename "IRL realistic" the "realistic rule" and "DSL realistic"
"I'm not good at stock but I like the playstyle so I push it here realistic" "Theme park realistic rule" "DSL standard"?
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DSL is just stock without stacking and has been for awhile. The main technique for both is to spam razors anyway.
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How about we rename "IRL realistic" the "realistic rule" and "DSL realistic" "I'm not good at stock but I like the playstyle so I push it here realistic" "Theme park realistic rule" "DSL standard"?
I like "Theme Park Realistic Rules", where every bot has to look like this.
https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/81111untitled.JPG (https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/81111untitled.JPG)
See this is the pinnacle of originality. Not only was it never done before, it will never be done again!!!!
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How about we rename "IRL realistic" the "realistic rule" and "DSL realistic" "I'm not good at stock but I like the playstyle so I push it here realistic" "Theme park realistic rule" "DSL standard"?
Now there was this debate before when R0B0 (I think?) brought up a good point..
Nothing is stopping someone building a DSL robot in real life? you cant tell someone they cant build one due to simply people not building them IRL..
Dont fix wont aint broke, and when DSL 3 rolls around you might find things are more IRL based..