gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: Badger on October 08, 2016, 12:51:08 PM
-
Title, really. Since we discovered how broken mechavore discs and frenzy hammers are, there has been a huge dive in interest in DSL non-IRL tournaments. Of the last 3 DSL 2.2 DSL-S tournaments, all have been won by bots spamming mechavore discs or frenzy hammers (scrapheap challenge 2, the cauldron 2, clone clash). Maybe the dip in interest is due to the surge in IRL building, but I think people are bored of making bots with only 2 viable weapon choices (weapons that lend themselves to a narrow range of bot types as well), and watching tournaments where the bot without the OP components is at a severe disadvantage.
Is it worth considering moving back to DSL2.1? Even though it wasn't the most balanced mod ever, it had a more varied metagame than DSL2.2 does right now.
-
>Mechadisks and Frenzyhams are the only broken components in 2.2
at least you're getting more than just one useable component, also hosts could simply ban those components.
-
>Mechadisks and Frenzyhams are the only broken components in 2.2
at least you're getting more than just one useable component, also hosts could simply ban those components.
I never said they were the only broken components, but they're pretty clearly the most broken components, as can be seen by recent tournament results. People don't want to showcase and build DSL-S stuff in DSL2.2 because if it's not using mechavore discs or frenzy hammers it's not competitive, and if it does then it'll more than likely be a variation on a design thats been done a thousand times before, ergo not worthy of showcasing.
-
can you not just release a DSL 2.21 patch that nerfs them
as long as people agree on the stats and whatever i cant see a downside
-
Still better than DSL 2.1, aka "razor hell".
Mechdiscs and frenzies aren't even the only OP components. Lurk more.
-
going back to 2.1 is ridiculous when you need just a stat balance patch for 2.2
-
Dsl 2.2 meta is not moving because there no decent builders actually building standard.
-
Dsl 2.2 meta is not moving because there no decent builders actually building standard.
But why is that? Cause of the incredibly shallow metagame revolving around 2 components
Still better than DSL 2.1, aka "razor hell".
Mechdiscs and frenzies aren't even the only OP components. Lurk more.
As I said, f hammers and m disks aren't the only broken components, but they're the worst offenders for sure, which is why I highlighted them.
can you not just release a DSL 2.21 patch that nerfs them
as long as people agree on the stats and whatever i cant see a downside
This has been proposed before but I think people don't want to touch it without Click's consent. With AS focusing on Retooled, who would be willing to take on a rebalance patch?
-
What Geice said.
I know for sure I don't care for the efficiency strive anymore, it just stopped being fun, at least for me. IRL is more accessible and is what draws new members in, so naturally (for better or worse) I think that's why DSL-S is slightly stagnant.
Perhaps a migration to Retooled or Ironforge is in order for DSL-S playstyles, and focus on DSL as an IRL mod.
-
Is it worth considering moving back to DSL2.1? Even though it wasn't the most balanced mod ever, it had a more varied metagame than DSL2.2 does right now.
you can't be serious, right? literally the only actually good parts in DSL 2.1 are razors and if you just want to feel different you can use Beaters and light ds teeth. meanwhile in dsl 2.2 you can use frenzy hammers, overkill blades, basically every rep disc, battleaxes, gothic axes, the replica bars, tornado's weapon, probably DSL bars chewblades and other stuff like that as well.
What Geice said.
I know for sure I don't care for the efficiency strive anymore, it just stopped being fun, at least for me. IRL is more accessible and is what draws new members in, so naturally (for better or worse) I think that's why DSL-S is slightly stagnant.
Perhaps a migration to Retooled or Ironforge is in order for DSL-S playstyles, and focus on DSL as an IRL mod.
bretty much this
-
Click basically intended 2.2 to be more IRL because Ironforge already had perfected the DSL standard style metagame.
-
can you not just release a DSL 2.21 patch that nerfs them
as long as people agree on the stats and whatever i cant see a downside
This ^
Far to much hours spent to just throw away over some numbers in a text file.
a DSL 2.2.1 release would fix the issue then we still have 4 versions of the game to play..
I guess the only issue is who would conduct the patch seeing as it is still Clickbeetles baby.. its not really fair to just takeover someone elses project and patch it.
That said with 2 versions building with the "standard" ruleset perhaps DSL could migrate to IRL to maintain it as an alternative. it would though, technically make a lot of 2.2 robots no longer legal as such..
-
It's not fair taking someone's baby and patch it? Talking bout a mod for a game no one in this forum has made :gawe:
-
So.. from what i can understand (and i hardly understand) is that these 2 components are overpowered?
-
It's not fair taking someone's baby and patch it? Talking bout a mod for a game no one in this forum has made :gawe:
Clickbeetle spent hours making the 2.2 content for free..
It wouldnt be fair to take his project, rebalance everything and call it offical without at least consulting him on the idea.
-
It's not fair taking someone's baby and patch it? Talking bout a mod for a game no one in this forum has made :gawe:
Clickbeetle spent hours making the 2.2 content for free..
It wouldnt be fair to take his project, rebalance everything and call it offical without at least consulting him on the idea.
Who says you have to call it official, just called it DSL2.2, "X's patch" or "Unofficial balance mod" or something
-
well thats a shortcut I guess.. yes? but thats a band-aid fix no different to rolling back to 2.1
I never said we shouldnt do it but I feel the correct means of achieving the result is to first touch base with Clickbeetle
Then migrate the community over to a 2.2.1 version.
Then everyone is on the same playing field and DSL is balanced again, No confusion :)
-
If it's unofficial, nobody will use it. I don't think Click would be opposed to a balance patch, but we should get his input, both as a courtesy to the guy who made it, and because he'd be a lot of help in determining how much to nerf them to keep them balanced for standard play.
-
i would build stuff in 2.2 but i don't enjoy this game anymore generally so rip
-
If it's unofficial, nobody will use it. I don't think Click would be opposed to a balance patch, but we should get his input, both as a courtesy to the guy who made it, and because he'd be a lot of help in determining how much to nerf them to keep them balanced for standard play.
This, I think it should be talked about with Click first, I guess there was a simple error in the calculation for the broken weapons(full weight of mechav discs instead of only one tooth getting taken into account for bonuses), don't think that it being inofficial would be an issue, since I can see people quickly using it for tournaments and everyone else then starting to use it because of that.
Speaking of DSL 2.2.1, it would be a good time to include a patch that fixes some general things, like the broken arenas/Freestyle not working at all and possibly some component AP's like Beta Bursts or NPC Rights(or was it Lefts?) by making new components and having the old ones in a cheatbot 2 menu, just like Click did with the hinges?
-
Speaking of DSL 2.2.1, it would be a good time to include a patch that fixes some general things, like the broken arenas/Freestyle not working at all and possibly some component AP's like Beta Bursts or NPC Rights(or was it Lefts?) by making new components and having the old ones in a cheatbot 2 menu, just like Click did with the hinges?
I agree with the addition of patching the Compressor and Ocean Platform Arenas permanently in the patch but if you are editing components it will outlaw some past robots.
Again, not outside the relm of possibility but if you are editing the actual content id jump to a 2.3 version number just to clarify the differences in the robots.. Then players can have the option of playing 2.2 just like they can play 2.1 standalone if they choose
-
Speaking of DSL 2.2.1, it would be a good time to include a patch that fixes some general things, like the broken arenas/Freestyle not working at all and possibly some component AP's like Beta Bursts or NPC Rights(or was it Lefts?) by making new components and having the old ones in a cheatbot 2 menu, just like Click did with the hinges?
I agree with the addition of patching the Compressor and Ocean Platform Arenas permanently in the patch but if you are editing components it will outlaw some past robots.
Again, not outside the relm of possibility but if you are editing the actual content id jump to a 2.3 version number just to clarify the differences in the robots.. Then players can have the option of playing 2.2 just like they can play 2.1 standalone if they choose
The components could still be legal(just put into the cheatbot2 menu so people start using the new ones with centered and fixed AP's), but I understand what you mean, could still lead to problems if people just want to use a component like that for a certain AP(althrough I doubt that would really happen with those two). Flamethrowers could also be fixed(the power=0 line is missing, as such they only start firing once you drive). Thing is, I wouldn't think that those are worth a full jump to 2.3, component balance fixes would still be part of the mentioned 2.2.1.
-
If parts end up in cheatbot2 they are no longer legal as most tournaments state "no cheatbot2" Likewise Its very confusing to tell someone you cant use a 2.2 robot in 2.2.1
model numbers are not a big deal to use.. its strictly just to divide/ clarify legal robots.
When the 140cm extender was voted on for legal use in stock we made the jump to 1.4 to clarify the rule change.
But First priority is to get into contact with Clickbeetle in regards to correcting the errors in the components and then we at least have a balanced game.. content changes can come later.
-
if we patch it can we bring back the long axle motors :dumb) i know they are still there but he removed them from styles dropdown menus but man there are times i would have liked to use them.
-
if we patch it can we bring back the long axle motors :dumb) i know they are still there but he removed them from styles dropdown menus but man there are times i would have liked to use them.
Long Axle sounds interesting, also wouldn't mind more uniform sized components but that would probably be better off for a new mod together with DSC's colored extenders and armor plates, maybe some kind of DSL lite which only has the important components and no AI replica stuff?(this all goes into the direction that I originally had in mind for my mod, minus completely restarting)