Quote from: Clickbeetle on July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PMQuote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfIs it the large ones, small ones, or both?Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.Here's what I say - cheatbot2 the existing Minon, Mechavore and Typhoon Teeth. Put 'em in a box, lock 'em away, give 'em a slight graphical tweak so people know they're the cheatbot2 variants. Then, make newer, non-cheatbot2 versions of those components, with more balanced stats - a 1.5X multiplier instead of a 2X would be a good start.
Quote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfIs it the large ones, small ones, or both?Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.
Hot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerf
Quote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfThe teeth actually have 1.5-D normals
DSL-IRL is the libtard’s meta. Go drink more soylent, retard! #BLUELIVESMATTER
Quote from: FOTEPX on July 01, 2018, 05:10:53 PMQuote from: Clickbeetle on July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PMQuote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfIs it the large ones, small ones, or both?Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.Here's what I say - cheatbot2 the existing Minon, Mechavore and Typhoon Teeth. Put 'em in a box, lock 'em away, give 'em a slight graphical tweak so people know they're the cheatbot2 variants. Then, make newer, non-cheatbot2 versions of those components, with more balanced stats - a 1.5X multiplier instead of a 2X would be a good start. Quote from: Clickbeetle on July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PMQuote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfThe teeth actually have 1.5-D normals
Quote from: Clickbeetle on July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PMQuote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfIs it the large ones, small ones, or both?Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.The real issues with them are that they're pretty easy to spam even without sacrificing in other areas, plus they have a pretty nice collision model, and a decent looking, versatile appearance which can fit with many designs, while most of the alternatives such as the DSL teeth look kinda ugly in many applications, or don't have as good of a collision mesh. As a result of all of that you end up seeing bots with like 15+ typhoon teeth and rarely do you see bots, especially effective ones, with anything else.
Quote from: TheRoboteer on July 01, 2018, 05:03:47 PMQuote from: Clickbeetle on July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PMQuote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfIs it the large ones, small ones, or both?Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.The real issues with them are that they're pretty easy to spam even without sacrificing in other areas, plus they have a pretty nice collision model, and a decent looking, versatile appearance which can fit with many designs, while most of the alternatives such as the DSL teeth look kinda ugly in many applications, or don't have as good of a collision mesh. As a result of all of that you end up seeing bots with like 15+ typhoon teeth and rarely do you see bots, especially effective ones, with anything else.Sooo... it's more that people just prefer them for aesthetic reasons and ease of placement? That doesn't sound like a nerf is the answer.Do you have any specific examples of alternatives with "bad" collision mesh? Would "fixing" these help?
If it was just ease of use and aesthetic choices, that'd be fine, but it's that combined with their ridiculous stats that makes it a problem. It's like if Large Beater Bars had double the DPS they have now.
Quote from: Clickbeetle on July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PMQuote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfIs it the large ones, small ones, or both?Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.Sticking with what I said before - Minion Disc, Mechavore Disc and Typhoon Teeth are all problems, because of how easily they can be used, abused and manipulated. Typhoon Teeth are too easy to spam, while Mechavore discs and Minion Discs give absolutely no reason to make your own discs. You'd have the exact same problem if you made a Tombstone or Carbide replica - the only way to make those robots true to life is to make their components OP, therefore throwing the whole game balance out of whack. Here's what I say - cheatbot2 the existing Minon, Mechavore and Typhoon Teeth. Put 'em in a box, lock 'em away, give 'em a slight graphical tweak so people know they're the cheatbot2 variants. Then, make newer, non-cheatbot2 versions of those components, with more balanced stats - a 1.5X multiplier instead of a 2X would be a good start. Then, from here on out, any new reps that get made have CB2 and Non-CB2 variants, with CB2 variants being balanced according to the actual robot's power, and the Non-CB2 being balanced according to DSL-S. I think that'd sort things out - and sure, it'd make CB2 messy, but honestly, DSL CB2 has always been messy.
So, how about the flatmotor?
Quote from: Billy5545 on July 01, 2018, 07:03:20 PMSo, how about the flatmotor?Flatmotor is useful in things such as very light weightclasses and compact drum spinners. Idk if it needs to be changed.
Quote from: FOTEPX on July 01, 2018, 06:28:45 PMIf it was just ease of use and aesthetic choices, that'd be fine, but it's that combined with their ridiculous stats that makes it a problem. It's like if Large Beater Bars had double the DPS they have now.So where do you you rank the 22kg ripping teeth with 720dp then?
Quote from: FOTEPX on July 01, 2018, 05:10:53 PMQuote from: Clickbeetle on July 01, 2018, 04:52:55 PMQuote from: Badger on June 21, 2018, 08:18:08 PMHot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerfIs it the large ones, small ones, or both?Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.Sticking with what I said before - Minion Disc, Mechavore Disc and Typhoon Teeth are all problems, because of how easily they can be used, abused and manipulated. Typhoon Teeth are too easy to spam, while Mechavore discs and Minion Discs give absolutely no reason to make your own discs. You'd have the exact same problem if you made a Tombstone or Carbide replica - the only way to make those robots true to life is to make their components OP, therefore throwing the whole game balance out of whack. Here's what I say - cheatbot2 the existing Minon, Mechavore and Typhoon Teeth. Put 'em in a box, lock 'em away, give 'em a slight graphical tweak so people know they're the cheatbot2 variants. Then, make newer, non-cheatbot2 versions of those components, with more balanced stats - a 1.5X multiplier instead of a 2X would be a good start. Then, from here on out, any new reps that get made have CB2 and Non-CB2 variants, with CB2 variants being balanced according to the actual robot's power, and the Non-CB2 being balanced according to DSL-S. I think that'd sort things out - and sure, it'd make CB2 messy, but honestly, DSL CB2 has always been messy.So, how about the flatmotor?
Flatmotor should stay CB2. There's no way a motor that small would be able to chuck out the horsepower it offers.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
Other motors should be buffed to compete with the flat motor, the flat motor shouldn't be nerfed. And not just in power, the collision meshes of all DSL spin motors are stupidly big and awkward to use. I think Ironforge does well in this regard, and we should look to it for what it did right.
Right. Here's my personal conclusion:There's two conflicting schools of thought here - the DSL-S builder, and the DSL-IRL builder. There'd be too much upkeep involved in having both meta's be their own separate mod packs. DSL-IRL originally started off as a spinoff of DSL-S, but has reached a point now where it dwarfs it by a factor of 5. Therefore, to keep the most users satisfied, it would be best to steer DSL as a mod in the direction of IRL. Yes, this will completely, radically change what we know as DSL-S - but, for the sake of keeping 'em happy... It's what's needed.
Ban dsl-s. Problem solved Nobody plays it anyway
obligatory battlebots 5 comment
Quote from: FOTEPX on July 02, 2018, 09:12:51 AMRight. Here's my personal conclusion:There's two conflicting schools of thought here - the DSL-S builder, and the DSL-IRL builder. There'd be too much upkeep involved in having both meta's be their own separate mod packs. DSL-IRL originally started off as a spinoff of DSL-S, but has reached a point now where it dwarfs it by a factor of 5. Therefore, to keep the most users satisfied, it would be best to steer DSL as a mod in the direction of IRL. Yes, this will completely, radically change what we know as DSL-S - but, for the sake of keeping 'em happy... It's what's needed.Separate mod.