gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: Mystic2000 on July 08, 2018, 04:39:14 PM
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well, i guess it's time to finally bring this out, SO about a month ago Avalanche thought of making a meta that was pretty much IRL but oriented more torwards competitiveness than looks and cool designs, and interested by the idea, i lend him a hand, and Orc eventually joined in aswell, despite the idea being ridiculed by some people, i think it isn't completely stupid, because, there are sort of 2 categories of players in the IRL community, there are some people that want to make machines that are able to fight and kick ass in the arena, and other people who think of IRL more as a showcase meta where the priority is making cool looking stuff, but this causes some issues, namely that usually the "showcase builders" (let's call them that for now) get annoyed at the "fight builders" because they view their optimised for combat robots as tryhard because efficiency is the main objective rather than a full aesthetics mindset, which can lead to arguments and drama when all this gets ported to tournaments, which let's face it, gets rather annoying.
Enter the Competitive Realistic meta (or CR for short), the idea is to make an alternative to the IRL meta with a set in stone ruleset so that race for competitiveness can be made in reasonable boundaries with minimal grey areas while keeping a certain level of realism so it doesn't just become DSL-S 2.0, this way, disputes between the two types of players in this game have no reason to exist anymore, you want to make fighters that will kick ass and make for cool fights ? CR is right up your alley, and everyone wanting to just make cool sh** for the hell of it can continue playing IRL unopposed and no longer be annoyed by the "tryhard" machines of those who play this for the fights.
This new meta would give each "section" of the playerbase it's appropriate playing field depending on how each builder wants to play, and this is the part where i will need the community's help, i need people to "beta-test" the current ruleset we have in the works for CR for any balance flaws and big exploits we may have missed, the ruleset can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1N5zeHUZg6Eo2rY-FnhRNwp4S1Rrd79_ZQgURy5ha-wg/edit?usp=sharing
Please give us help and feedback, this project could be something very good, but it won't happen without your input, don't dismiss it as something stupid or a meme, this is a serious idea, give it a whirl and we can observe the results and see what needs to be changed to make this a viable sub-meta to IRL.
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Liked because this needs to be tested to see how well it works. Good luck.
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will never work. IRL was all about "this bot would look/be dope in real life" with no care for efficiency. i.e. art bots with funny tournaments.
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Oh, god. Good luck.
I'm not saying that because this is a stupid idea or anything - it isn't. It's just... good luck enforcing any of this. These rules seem very strict, and that clashes with the usually laid-back approach to IRL building that is adopted by tournament hosts.
Also, the idea of limiting weapon amount by DP output instantly puts high HP things like hammers at a massive advantage. SnS hammerbot, anyone?
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So why are mini minion disks banned but sledgehammer spam allowed
I still think IRL rulesets should be left to host discretion.
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it's just going to lead to some half-assed irl/substandard dsl-s robots.
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Try to play nice guys
Also I think people would be a lot more open to your ideas if you provided examples of what said bots would look like under your ruleset.
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Try to play nice guys
Also I think people would be a lot more open to your ideas if you provided examples of what said bots would look like under your ruleset.
I had the greatest insult speech to haters of this idea.
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Try to play nice guys
Also I think people would be a lot more open to your ideas if you provided examples of what said bots would look like under your ruleset.
I had the greatest insult speech to haters of this idea.
I think you should stop posting for now.
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Also I think people would be a lot more open to your ideas if you provided examples of what said bots would look like under your ruleset.
Sorry about earlier. That is a good point: will discuss it with Mystic when I get up tomorrow: thanks!
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This is an awful idea. It's just a crap version of DSL-S.
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I personally like the range of artistic and efficient IRL bot in tournaments. If anything I think this makes it more IRL. For example in Battlebots, Tombstone is not a very artsy design, but its efficient. Meanwhile we have designs like Red Devil or Obwalden overlord, which are complicated and made to be cool not necessarily to win. However I do agree that people should stop whining about 'tryhard' bots, as log as they are resemble what a robot could look like in real life and follow the rules set out by the tournament.
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I have a question. What is your stance toward Serge's Component Freedom mods? It seems like a large number of bots in the DSL showcase are built with this. Is Component Freedom generally tournament-legal now so long as the end product looks IRL?
If so, how do you deal with externally-attached batteries falling off and crashing the game?
Actually, I have two questions. There is also this section:
Any skirts placed on metal or skirt hinges must have a “dustpan” system to support them, or they will be denied.
What about Biohazard or Final Destiny-style skirts?
You might also consider putting a list of all the restrictions (and ONLY the restrictions) at the start, and put your justifications in a separate section, so it is easy for players to check what is and isn't allowed. The current document looks like something people will skim.
I admire the effort to standardize IRL rules, even if it seems futile.
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This is something LRA2 was talking about in his brief stint back with us. Instead of watching a bunch of people with different ideals fight each other about how they like their pixels to fight each other, I'm going to tell you the same thing I told him.
Create a product, test the product, see how people like the product. Then we'll talk. My recommendation to him was to create a ruleset and run an official GTM tournament with it, and if people like it, it works. End of story.
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Is Component Freedom generally tournament-legal now so long as the end product looks IRL?
So far around 99.9% of DSL-IRL events have allowed RA2CF since the mod's release.
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Why do we need to change this?
IRL is IRL
Unrealistic is Unrealistic
we dont need to dont need to make it competitive.
If you want to be competitive go to something like DSL-S
If you want to be creative and fun do IRL
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Why do we need to change this?
IRL is IRL
Unrealistic is Unrealistic
we dont need to dont need to make it competitive.
If you want to be competitive go to something like DSL-S
If you want to be creative and fun do IRL
So, tryhard design should never exist, because it is ugly for IRL, and depending on the weapon amount or wedge quality, less competitive and efficient in DSL-S, plus, the fact that RA2CF is illegal in DSL-S
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Why do we need to change this?
IRL is IRL
Unrealistic is Unrealistic
we dont need to dont need to make it competitive.
If you want to be competitive go to something like DSL-S
If you want to be creative and fun do IRL
So, tryhard design should never exist, because it is ugly for IRL, and depending on the weapon amount or wedge quality, less competitive and efficient in DSL-S, plus, the fact that RA2CF is illegal in DSL-S
Im assuming your saying this in a sarcastic way as if im saying something stupid but lets be real try hard designs are pretty ugly.
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I believe that competitive realistic would blur the lines of an already messy part of the community. The rules on what is or isn't IRL are messy enough without determining whether or not something is too good to be in the IRL meta. Is a good-looking shell spinner in the IRL meta? IRL is already inconsistent. A new type of it likely will not help.
Secondly, IRL does have an aspect of performance as well as aesthetics. Most of the best IRL builders are considered the best because they make good looking, effective robots. Why would so many popular IRL tournaments exist if people didn't care whether their robots could fight well? While performance is secondary to looks in IRL, it is still held as important, just looked people like a good-looking DSL-S or stock robot than something with a white chassis or basic texture.
Competitive realistic just doesn't feel too necessary right now when other improvements can be made. Take all of this from the perspective of a newer member, but those are my thoughts on this issue.
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Almost feel this would be better as a new DSL-S ruleset instead of calling it related to IRL but that's me.
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Almost feel this would be better as a new DSL-S ruleset instead of calling it related to IRL
But if it's called DSL-S V.2 then it can't take advantage of IRL's popularity.
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I have a question. What is your stance toward Serge's Component Freedom mods? It seems like a large number of bots in the DSL showcase are built with this. Is Component Freedom generally tournament-legal now so long as the end product looks IRL?
If so, how do you deal with externally-attached batteries falling off and crashing the game?
Actually, I have two questions. There is also this section:
Any skirts placed on metal or skirt hinges must have a “dustpan” system to support them, or they will be denied.
What about Biohazard or Final Destiny-style skirts?
You might also consider putting a list of all the restrictions (and ONLY the restrictions) at the start, and put your justifications in a separate section, so it is easy for players to check what is and isn't allowed. The current document looks like something people will skim.
I admire the effort to standardize IRL rules, even if it seems futile.
1. I think cf mods the game not to crash when batts fall off somehow.
2. Skirts should be allowed, period. They don’t look that unrealistic.
EDIT/DISCLAIMER: This is my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion.
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Plain and simple I just don't think we need a new meta. Especially one that tries to be a weird hybrid of two existing ones
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I'll say this again, nobody really knows until it's attempted. If you think it will flop, let them try and let it flop.